Club History Before the Crows, there was the Redlegs

[simmo_bc]

Some interesting stories there.

I just wanted to point out that you presumably are referring to Lester Ross Snr there, not jnr who played in the 1980s for Norwood.

My dad played country footy with Ross Snr back in late 60s, he sounds like a really interesting character.

Just read the LR senior is a Victorian, from St Kilda, that moved to Norwood and then to South? LR junior was a great player in the 80s.

Remember his other son Jonathan, that was on the Crows list and then Collingwoods? Could have been anything!

 

[Established1870]

That 20,000 members and it might be more, aren't football members they are the people that pay $10/year so the can go to the Sharks Leagues Club and use the poker machines and eat there to get the cheap meals and also to get discounts on the bands/singers/shows they put on. They have a huge function room that can host over a 1,000 people. That's why they had $20 million in the bank in 2003 and started talking about buying an AFL licence. They are really now a poker machine licensed club business that has a football club attached to it. It wasn't always that way. They started in 1961, built a couple of small licensed venue in the 1970's and 1980's over the next 25 years and then moved to their current home when in 1988 when they secured a 50 year crown lease for 30 acres of land to build an oval and a social/licensed venue. Ironically it was supposed to be the home of Rugby League on the Gold Coast. Some benefactor kicked in $2mil to help the development and then in 1992 Queensland government allowed poker machines for sporting clubs in 1992 and they went from 18 machines to 160 very quickly.

I have a book regarding the 1996 Centenary Season, based around Carey, Hird, Gavin Brown, Mods and Jakovich. In the book there's a thing detailing the biggest news stories for the season and in one such week, one of the main stories was that Southport said they wanted to be club 17 and that they had 20,000 >football< members. I will find this book and post a picture with the article in it. That's what I base the 20,000 thing on though. I know the Sharks do have a lot of pokies and it is responsible for their absurd wealth (for a state league club in QLD 20 million in the bank would make a few AFL clubs tear up).

They are in partnership with the GC Suns. They are major sponsors via The Sharks Leagues Club. the first chairman/president of the Suns came from his involvement with the Southport (Sharks) FC.

I'm pretty sure it was a condition of entry that the Suns have Southport around in one way or another. I know they use the function room and are sponsored by the SLC (Footy Industry isn't a bad board). Knew they have a presence on the board but didn't know the first President was a Sharks person.

The Suns have their after match functions and other major functions at Sharks Leagues Club although that might change. The Suns have got these massive new facilities next to their stadium thanks to the 2018 Commonwealth Games and building a multi-sports indoor facility next to the stadium. I went to the Suns v WCE game in early June and as my sister and brother inlaw are members they were able to invite me to the opening of the new facilities and they had their first members function there. Sharks Leagues club is also the official away game function room for Suns fans to watch away games. Here is how Southport Sharks explain their partnership with the Suns starting in 2008 to present day.

I think with the Commonwealth games seeing Metricon/Carrara upgraded to the extent it is and with all the new facilities attached, the Sharks won't be as heavily involved due to the Suns not needing their facilities any more because they'll have their own after the games are finished. Pretty ironic that the patronage thing you got the link for says it runs from 2008 to 2018. Even more ironic is that the AFL wanted to set up a GC side right after the Commonwealth games bid was announced.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I have a book regarding the 1996 Centenary Season, based around Carey, Hird, Gavin Brown, Mods and Jakovich. In the book there's a thing detailing the biggest news stories for the season and in one such week, one of the main stories was that Southport said they wanted to be club 17 and that they had 20,000 >football< members. I will find this book and post a picture with the article in it. That's what I base the 20,000 thing on though. I know the Sharks do have a lot of pokies and it is responsible for their absurd wealth (for a state league club in QLD 20 million in the bank would make a few AFL clubs tear up).

That doesn't make what the book said right. I lived on the Gold Coast for 18 months from early January 1996 and I can tell you they didn't have 20,000 football members. I went and watched a couple of games and they had about 800 people at home games.

That 20,000 is members of the club was because the entity that runs the football club and pokies is the Southport Australian Rules Football Club Limited. In their 2016 Annual Report they said they had 55,000 members and in their note 4 to their Financial Statements they have membership income of $2,715,855, so that $20 I talked about earlier probably is $30 or $40 and I suspect they sell some footy memberships to get you into the ground to watch football. Fankhauser Reserve named after their benefactor, has supposedly a capacity of 8,000 according to the wiki page.

Think about it a littler closer, in 1996 the following teams didn't have 20,000 members;
Brisbane, Fitzroy, Fremantle, Geelong, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melbourne, St Kilda, Sydney and Western Bulldogs. Barely having 20,000 were Collingwood and Richmond. Port in their last year in the SANFL only had about 8,600. That 1996 figure is the membership figure of the legal entity that has the pokie machine venue memberships in it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I think with the Commonwealth games seeing Metricon/Carrara upgraded to the extent it is and with all the new facilities attached, the Sharks won't be as heavily involved due to the Suns not needing their facilities any more because they'll have their own after the games are finished. Pretty ironic that the patronage thing you got the link for says it runs from 2008 to 2018. Even more ironic is that the AFL wanted to set up a GC side right after the Commonwealth games bid was announced.

That page says it will end 2020.
Southport Sharks confirmed its commitment to its charter, its members and the people of the Gold Coast in 2008 through a 12 year Patron Partnership agreement in support of the proposed team.

I haven't put 2 and 2 together about when the bid started and when the AFL said they wanted a team as the bid was won in November 2011. The AFL started trying to get North Melbourne to move to the GC basically a few weeks after 2007 season finished so I'm not sure how much scheming Andy D was doing back then and how confident he was that GC would win the rights to host the games.

 

[chiwigi]

That page says it will end 2020.
Southport Sharks confirmed its commitment to its charter, its members and the people of the Gold Coast in 2008 through a 12 year Patron Partnership agreement in support of the proposed team.

I haven't put 2 and 2 together about when the bid started and when the AFL said they wanted a team as the bid was won in November 2011. The AFL started trying to get North Melbourne to move to the GC basically a few weeks after 2007 season finished so I'm not sure how much scheming Andy D was doing back then and how confident he was that GC would win the rights to host the games.

They were pushing North to the GC at least during the 2007 season, it was one of the chants at the prelim.

 

[tribey]

That 20,000 members (Edit their 2016 annual report says 55,000 members) and it might be more, aren't football members they are the people that pay $20/year so the can go to the Sharks Leagues Club and use the poker machines and eat there to get the cheap meals and also to get discounts on the bands/singers/shows they put on. They have a huge function room that can host over a 1,000 people. That's why they had $20 million in the bank in 2003 and started talking about buying an AFL licence. They are really now a poker machine licensed club business that has a football club attached to it. It wasn't always that way. They started in 1961, built a couple of small licensed venue in the 1970's and 1980's over the next 25 years and then moved to their current home when in 1988 when they secured a 50 year crown lease for 30 acres of land to build an oval and a social/licensed venue. Ironically it was supposed to be the home of Rugby League on the Gold Coast. Some benefactor kicked in $2mil to help the development and then in 1992 Queensland government allowed poker machines for sporting clubs in 1992 and they went from 18 machines to 160 very quickly and now has over 300.

They are in partnership with the GC Suns. They are major sponsors via The Sharks Leagues Club. the first chairman/president of the Suns came from his involvement with the Southport (Sharks) FC.

The Suns have their after match functions and other major functions at Sharks Leagues Club although that might change. The Suns have got these massive new facilities next to their stadium thanks to the 2018 Commonwealth Games and building a multi-sports indoor facility next to the stadium. I went to the Suns v WCE game in early June and as my sister and brother inlaw are members they were able to invite me to the opening of the new facilities and they had their first members function there. Sharks Leagues club is also the official away game function room for Suns fans to watch away games. Here is how Southport Sharks explain their partnership with the Suns starting in 2008 to present day.

http://southportsharks.com.au/page/patron-partnership

Don't they have a membership deal on petrol as well?

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Don't they have a membership deal on petrol as well?

I played footy on the Gold Coast in 94 and it was a $1 membership at Southport and you got a voucher book with about a thousand bucks worth of shit in it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

They were pushing North to the GC at least during the 2007 season, it was one of the chants at the prelim.

There you go I dont remember that. I do remember talking to people on the North board in October of 2007. I was asked to do a spreadsheet by one of the North mods breaking down the alleged $100m offer to move up there and worked out it was only about $25-$30m as the rest were normal payments the Kangaroos would have received either over 7 or 10 years, cant remember the time frame, if they stayed in Melbourne.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Short version. When Port saw the writing on the wall of the SA based competition and looked to join the expanded Victorian Football League (now AFL), Norwood were our biggest rival. They also had been making enquiries to join, but when our talks leaked, instead of saying they'd support our bid in return for us supporting them as the second SA side, they joined the other SA clubs taking legal action (leading to Adelaide in 1990 instead of us, with us having to wait for 1997).

Their reward for jealousy and cowardice is now they are a dying local only club with bugger all supporters, instead of our SA rival in the AFL. Most of their supporters went to following Adelaide and wouldn't come back. SA can't support three AFL sides, certainly not a Norwood whose supporter demographics overlaps much more with the Crows then Ports. They certainly have gotten everything they deserved.

You could say the same about Glenelg. Apart from their lack of premiership success.

 

[raptalia]

Some interesting stories there.

I just wanted to point out that you presumably are referring to Lester Ross Snr there, not jnr who played in the 1980s for Norwood.

My dad played country footy with Ross Snr back in late 60s, he sounds like a really interesting character.

Yes, at the time we spoke with him Ross Snr's son was with the Crows. Ross Jnr might not have caused any issues at that stage because we didn't talk about the lad.

As I recall Ross came over to Norwood with Alan Killigrew who changed their nickname from the Redlegs to the Demons and altered their guernsey design as well. For a while they had same colours,same jumper, same club song and same nickname as Melbourne. As soon as Killigrew left they changed it all back.

 

[GreyPower]

Just read the LR senior is a Victorian, from St Kilda, that moved to Norwood and then to South? LR junior was a great player in the 80s.

Remember his other son Jonathan, that was on the Crows list and then Collingwoods? Could have been anything!

Yep, Ross Snr did have VFL experience before coming over.

For the record, I think Lester jnr & Jonathon were half-brothers.

 

[simmo_bc]

Yep, Ross Snr did have VFL experience before coming over.

For the record, I think Lester jnr & Jonathon were half-brothers.

That might explain why one was a rover and one was a key position player haha!

Lester Jnr was a feisty rover, played a solid 84 GF from memory.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Yes, at the time we spoke with him Ross Snr's son was with the Crows. Ross Jnr might not have caused any issues at that stage because we didn't talk about the lad.

As I recall Ross came over to Norwood with Alan Killigrew who changed their nickname from the Redlegs to the Demons and altered their guernsey design as well. For a while they had same colours,same jumper, same club song and same nickname as Melbourne. As soon as Killigrew left they changed it all back.

Don't blame Killegrew

Some tasks are impossible.

Like Fos trying to harden up South Adelaide.

 

[simmo_bc]

I played footy on the Gold Coast in 94 and it was a $1 membership at Southport and you got a voucher book with about a thousand bucks worth of shit in it.

Sounds eerily similar to Vegas

 

[Prison bar Pete]

If Norwood pushed hard they could potentially do it. Push aggressively to get people to games and sell out Norwood Oval every week. Again, they got just under 40k to a SANFL grand final. They've got supporters. I'd wager a fair number of them would switch to support the club closer to home. I don't see a 3rd SA club because of population statistics and lack of local finances, even though it is Norwood and their coterie would be far richer than most clubs. The Crows won't disband, that's financial suicide for everyone in the state who's related to football (us included). No other existing club outside Norwood in the country has a snow's chance in hell though of getting in aside from Southport who should've been the 17th GC side from the start.

I'd really be surprised if Norwood went for it, but I'd love to have that rivalry in the AFL. I know it's fanciful to suggest the Crows disband: just a bit of wishful thinking! Under my scenario they would more likely stay as is and the new team would be called Northern Adelaide (Crows feel more south of the Torrens River to me). In any event I don't think there will be any serious consideration for a 3rd team for several decades yet.

 

[raptalia]

Don't blame Killegrew

Some tasks are impossible.

Like Fos trying to harden up South Adelaide.

If we are honest ED Norwood did have a history and some semblance of a football identity where as South had sfa and still struggle to find an identity down here. Many locals will not have a bar of the SAFC which is a pity because I quite enjoy watching footy at Hickinbotham, they have the best steak sangers in the SANFL. Five bucks for a steak sandwich with egg and onion is good value. Even better value this year as we watched the Magpies flog the locals but I digress.

 

[raptalia]

They were pushing North to the GC at least during the 2007 season, it was one of the chants at the prelim.

North told the AFL to go jump as I recall. I was a bit surprised when they knocked back a huge cash incentive to go up there. On reflection they probably had Fitzroy in their mindset. If North had gone you can bet they would have become the Gold Coast Kangaroos with the emphasis on Gold Coast and a minor presence in Melbourne a la Fitzroy. In retrospect they probably made the correct decision.

 

[TeeKray]

North told the AFL to go jump as I recall. I was a bit surprised when they knocked back a huge cash incentive to go up there. On reflection they probably had Fitzroy in their mindset. If North had gone you can bet they would have become the Gold Coast Kangaroos with the emphasis on Gold Coast and a minor presence in Melbourne a la Fitzroy. In retrospect they probably made the correct decision.

Sydney have managed to retain a decent amount of their South Melbourne identity whereas Fitzroy are more or less a forgotten partner in their merger with the Brisbane Bears. I think mergers/relocations can work but it's difficult and takes a conscious effort on everyone's part.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

If we are honest ED Norwood did have a history and some semblance of a football identity where as South had sfa and still struggle to find an identity down here. Many locals will not have a bar of the SAFC which is a pity because I quite enjoy watching footy at Hickinbotham, they have the best steak sangers in the SANFL. Five bucks for a steak sandwich with egg and onion is good value. Even better value this year as we watched the Magpies flog the locals but I digress.

F*** SOUF.

 

[chiwigi]

North told the AFL to go jump as I recall. I was a bit surprised when they knocked back a huge cash incentive to go up there. On reflection they probably had Fitzroy in their mindset. If North had gone you can bet they would have become the Gold Coast Kangaroos with the emphasis on Gold Coast and a minor presence in Melbourne a la Fitzroy. In retrospect they probably made the correct decision.

Oh they definitely made the right decision. I would not support a re-located Port, even if they won three in a row.
I'd rather win ten wooden spoons in a row!

 

[raptalia]

Oh they definitely made the right decision. I would not support a re-located Port, even if they won three in a row.
I'd rather win ten wooden spoons in a row!

I take it you did not support the suggestion that the AFL locate Port to Tasmania?

 

[raptalia]

I can vaguely recall in the early seventies Port were scheduled to play Norwood in a final at Norwood Oval. In those days football was only ever played on Saturday afternoon at 2.20pm and no one had heard of a double header. I think this was at the beginning of the final five system and they could not use Adelaide Oval as a venue for all games. Fos was coaching us and I can vividly remember Teddy McMahon, who was our Head Trainer and a tally clerk on the wharves, threatening to call the boys out if the League did not reschedule the game. I think the game went ahead and we may even have won but I know there was no strike over it. Maybe someone else can remember the finer detail.

The episode did illustrate how much power Norwood exerted with the corridors of the SANFL and how we were up against it when it came to programming, country zones etc. The fact that we got the Far West Coast while Norwood had to make that arduous journey from the Parade to Murray Bridge illustrates the point. Norwood still have a big say today if you look at the SANFL Commission and you can bet they had a big say in that ludicrous SANFL/AFL Reserves deal.

 

[GremioPower]

Sydney have managed to retain a decent amount of their South Melbourne identity whereas Fitzroy are more or less a forgotten partner in their merger with the Brisbane Bears. I think mergers/relocations can work but it's difficult and takes a conscious effort on everyone's part.

On Brisbane, I would have crazy suggestions:

- They should be officially called "Fitzroy FC of Brisbane";
- The original Fitzroy should be in VFL and work as Brisbane's reserve team;
- They should wear Fitzroy's guernsey every time they play in Melbourne;
- They should wear Bears' guernsey as their third kit;
- One Lions-Swans should be in Melbourne every season.

 

[edgie]

I like the Lions - Swans heritage match but not sold on the rest.

Sent from mTalk

 

[TeeKray]

They already sort of do wear the Fitzroy guernsey for Melbourne games - they just need to swap the Lion for the FFC insignia.