Before we judge....

[captain blood 17]

If the mail we are all reading is correct, we are more than a fair chance to land Houli and Sherman. It's fair to say that this move has divided opinions. The one thing we need to consider when (and if) we bring these two to the club, does our coaching staff have the ability and structures to improve their game. Sherman is coming from a club with a second year coach (no apprenticeship, just an ego), Rawlings, McCrae, some guy with no football background and Brittain walked out on the club during the year (?). Houli had Knights, Prescott, Camporeale, (the last two resigned before years end, and who else. Both clubs were a mess before seasons end.
If these two players come to our club, just remind yourself of where they have come from. Who did succeed from those clubs this year? The more i think about it, i believe we can improve their game and they can play a role for our team.

 

[PUNTROADHAMMER]

If the mail we are all reading is correct, we are more than a fair chance to land Houli and Sherman. It's fair to say that this move has divided opinions. The one thing we need to consider when (and if) we bring these two to the club, does our coaching staff have the ability and structures to improve their game. Sherman is coming from a club with a second year coach (no apprenticeship, just an ego), Rawlings, McCrae, some guy with no football background and Brittain walked out on the club during the year (?). Houli had Knights, Prescott, Camporeale, (the last two resigned before years end, and who else. Both clubs were a mess before seasons end.
If these two players come to our club, just remind yourself of where they have come from. Who did succeed from those clubs this year? The more i think about it, i believe we can improve their game and they can play a role for our team.

Replace that with "i hope", because, with respect Cap'n, that's what you're doing, hoping.

 

[the ranger]

If we end up with them, I'll support them as I do all RFC players. I just hope they don't cost us too much. (I supported McMahon even though pick 19 for him was ridiculous).

 

[captain blood 17]

Replace that with "i hope", because, with respect Cap'n, that's what you're doing, hoping.

Maybe it is with rose coloured glasses i'm looking through, but i do believe we (at the mo.), offer a stable environment with which these two could come into and develop further. After supporting for over thirty years, yeah tinge of hope, but i do have a belief that the coaching staff can do their job.

 

[coke_zero]

If we get either of those 2 the coaching staff will be 100% sure that they will help strengthen the 22 and will be in there for the next 5+ years. But with the amount of new kids we will bring in we can get away with bringing in a talented player that failed at another club.

 

[telsor]

If we end up with them, I'll support them as I do all RFC players. I just hope they don't cost us too much. (I supported McMahon even though pick 19 for him was ridiculous).

This.

 

[eays]

it all depends on the cost of getting them IMO. Both have potential (yes, can be a dirty word) and both would certainly we better than some on our list this year (admittedly, will be gone next).

If they cost us little, then i reckon they both have the potential upside to justify the risk. Any draft pick would carry similar risk anyway, so in a sense its just trading risk for risk (i.e. if its between them taking a spot that an 18 y.o. would have instead).

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

If the mail we are all reading is correct, we are more than a fair chance to land Houli and Sherman. .

I'm wondering if Houli's future will be dependant on the Bombers next coach?

 

[Jisha]

As long as we don't lose out horribly in a lop sided trade both could be valuable assets to the club, wouldn't be disappointed getting either of them.

 

[captain blood 17]

I'm wondering if Houli's future will be dependant on the Bombers next coach?

If what we are all reading has some element of truth to it, Houli wants out irrespective of who's going in. Reading between the lines, it will be in Essendon's best interest to trade and get some value.

 

[The Yellow Line]

I know it has been said before but I really do have faith in DH to do the right thing by the club. Though I personally don't rate Sherman and Houli as players, if this is the decision made then so be it.

This time of year is both exciting and very scary at exactly the same time.

 

[partycorolla]

I know it has been said before but I really do have faith in DH to do the right thing by the club. Though I personally don't rate Sherman and Houli as players, if this is the decision made then so be it.

This time of year is both exciting and very scary at exactly the same time.

Agreed, I wish we could just start trade week now.... cancel the GF, we'll just say the Pies lost but the Saints also didnt win and move on to the interesting stuff!!!

 

[captain blood 17]

Agreed, I wish we could just start trade week now.... cancel the GF, we'll just say the Pies lost but the Saints also didnt win and move on to the interesting stuff!!!

"like meatloaf through a straw, and so to are the days of our lives".... Agree, sounds like a fair and reasonable suggestion.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

...i'm in....
...love the wheelin and dealin of trade week...

 

[Goldust]

I'm wondering if Houli's future will be dependant on the Bombers next coach?

I WOULD be surprised if the new coach is that keen to offload Houli. Essendon fans were scratching their heads as to why Knights seemingly refused to give him a game and when he did only gave him limited opportunities. Supporters rate him quite highly!

 

[brett15]

any pick within the first 3 rounds is ridiculous even if it netted both players in a 2 for 1 deal. topping up is not the way especially with recycles from other clubs, any trades at this point should only include players worth getting like like a Boak, Mundy or Rich and even then it can be too expensive and not worth it. this is the path of Voss, Wallace, Frawley and Greg Miller and look how that turned out.

we are rebuilding, so we should stick to picking up and developing kids in the ND until such time we are a genuine finals threat. It's only then should we consider picking up players from other teams like Collingwood did with Luke Ball and Darren Jolly.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

I'm not too keen on either of them unless it is for virtually nothing.

Houli in the PSD or Sherman for a 4rd rounder. Certainly don't want both, we've never had much success with drafting multiple recycled players in the 1 year.

2004 draft: simmonds, m.graham, knobel

2 misses, 1 hit (simmonds). As good as graham was for 1 year, it was 1 year!

2005 draft: p.bowden, humm

2 misses

2006 draft: Polak, Kingsley

2 misses, can't blame the recruiters for Polak though.

2007 draft: McMahon, Morton, Cartledge and Collard.

3 misses right there out of 4, and before the last few games this year I would have said 4 misses.

2008 draft: Thomson, Hislop, Cousins.

2 misses, 1 very short term hit.

All in all, 2004-2008, 5 drafts, arguably 1 short term hit (cousins), 1 potential hit (morton) and 1 hit (simmonds) from trading/recycling players out of 14 picks.

2009 we only traded for 1 player and he looks good (farmer) and came cheap (as a package with the pick that got ben nason for Jay Schulz, who would have been delisted anyway!). We went for a few mature age recruits and they all look good (webberley, nason, o'reilly) save for Relton Roberts who is gone.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

I think both of these players are good players but their consustancy scares me. I also think that our coaching staff will improve them considerably . Sherman could become elite if taught how to get more involved and improved his defensive side of his game.

I think the op's on the money on how bad these 2 must of had this year.

 

[Tiger_Stripes]

I WOULD be surprised if the new coach is that keen to offload Houli. Essendon fans were scratching their heads as to why Knights seemingly refused to give him a game and when he did only gave him limited opportunities. Supporters rate him quite highly!

Hope it's true he just wants to leave no matter what, would love him in yellow and black. Lot of potential and hell, if we can make a player like Mitch Farmer look good we can do a heck of a lot with Houli.

He's supposed to be a devout Muslim, I wonder if he adheres to the no alcohol stipulation, if so, stick him in a house with Connors

 

[Dustin Credible]

The names thrown up have caused me to have a mini-epiphany regarding the state of our list.

Why would we want Bachar Houli or Sherman, both players with obvious limitations? These aren't players to take us forward...are they? Then I look at the potential trade, polo for houli straight swap, and think hmm we win that trade and Sherman would be easily in our best twenty-two.

I think I've only just realised how poor our list really is. Depressing.

 

[CallMeAl]

I'm not too keen on either of them unless it is for virtually nothing.

Houli in the PSD or Sherman for a 4rd rounder. Certainly don't want both, we've never had much success with drafting multiple recycled players in the 1 year.

2004 draft: simmonds, m.graham, knobel

2 misses, 1 hit (simmonds). As good as graham was for 1 year, it was 1 year!

2005 draft: p.bowden, humm

2 misses

2006 draft: Polak, Kingsley

2 misses, can't blame the recruiters for Polak though.

2007 draft: McMahon, Morton, Cartledge and Collard.

3 misses right there out of 4, and before the last few games this year I would have said 4 misses.

2008 draft: Thomson, Hislop, Cousins.

2 misses, 1 very short term hit.

All in all, 2004-2008, 5 drafts, arguably 1 short term hit (cousins), 1 potential hit (morton) and 1 hit (simmonds) from trading/recycling players out of 14 picks.

2009 we only traded for 1 player and he looks good (farmer) and came cheap (as a package with the pick that got ben nason for Jay Schulz, who would have been delisted anyway!). We went for a few mature age recruits and they all look good (webberley, nason, o'reilly) save for Relton Roberts who is gone.

You could put up a similar list of youngsters taken in the draft and it would look bad enough to use the same argument not to draft kids.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The club , at last, seems to have recruiting structure and resources now to do the job properly. Last years draft/trading at this point has been as good as you could realistically expect.

Surely we can be safe in assuming that the recruiters, with input from Blair Hartley, will put the same due diligence into trading as they do drafting?

Hope it's true he just wants to leave no matter what, would love him in yellow and black. Lot of potential and hell, if we can make a player like Mitch Farmer look good we can do a heck of a lot with Houli.

He's supposed to be a devout Muslim, I wonder if he adheres to the no alcohol stipulation, if so, stick him in a house with Connors

LOL

I think both of these players are good players but their consustancy scares me. I also think that our coaching staff will improve them considerably . Sherman could become elite if taught how to get more involved and improved his defensive side of his game.

I think the op's on the money on how bad these 2 must of had this year.

Mathews played him as a tagger in his last year as coach. He'd have a pretty good defensive side to his game I'd reakon.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

You could put up a similar list of youngsters taken in the draft and it would look bad enough to use the same argument not to draft kids.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The club , at last, seems to have recruiting structure and resources now to do the job properly. Last years draft/trading at this point has been as good as you could realistically expect.

Surely we can be safe in assuming that the recruiters, with input from Blair Hartley, will put the same due diligence into trading as they do drafting?

You use last years recruiting structure as the example for not completely ignoring trading, well I'd say last years example really supports my argument. We traded for 1 player, farmer and it was a straight swap where we also got a handy late pick. The rest of the players we got were youngsters or mature age players from state leagues.

We are going to have 1 player (Morton) on our list out of the 14 trades/recycled players we picked up in 2004-2008 (7% retention rate).

Here is your list of young/state league mature aged players:

In the very same drafts in terms of youngsters/mature age state league players, we have 19 players still on our list from the 28 picked. This represents a 67.86% retention rate. Polo is the only one who is probably going to go from that bunch this year. 67.86% vs 7%. And that includes the abysmal 2005 draft from which only White and Graham remain.

Due diligence is one thing, but ignoring history and our current position (ie nowhere near good enough to be "topping up" with any more than 1 or 2 recycled players) is foolish.

 

[CallMeAl]

what is your argument? That the same recruiting team that last year made one trade and your happy with it, cannot do the same again this year?

Bringing in 22 and 24 year olds is not topping up.

To say dont trade because in the past we traded and messed it up is silly.

Its not the fact of trading being flawed, its how it was done. In the past ....Poorly, as with many many things done by the richmond football club.

AS with drafting, trading is a legitimate way to build a list, you just need to get right.

Successful clubs draft well, trade well and develop their players well.

 

[brett15]

Trading is fine as long as it doesn't become expensive and involve giving away high picks, that 1 trade for Farmer was a straight swap for Schultz which also netted us Port's pick 72 (Ben Nason).

Smart clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong go out and upgrade their picks just by participating in 3 way deals. That's smart trading and we haven't done such a thing until last year.

 

[THE_GUN]

Hope it's true he just wants to leave no matter what, would love him in yellow and black. Lot of potential and hell, if we can make a player like Mitch Farmer look good we can do a heck of a lot with Houli.

He's supposed to be a devout Muslim, I wonder if he adheres to the no alcohol stipulation, if so, stick him in a house with Connors

yes he does practice all aspects of islam includeing praying,fasting & non drinking of alcohol.

just in refrence to drafting retreads, im not for drafting recycled players but
to say that it hasnt worked in the past so we shouldnt trade at all is not really fair to the current administration or recruiting,coaching staff.

we must remember that this isnt the wallace,frawley era & we have a whole new team in place thats proved thus far to be on the ball & know what they are doing & make the hard call.

hardwick is in his 2nd year & doesnt have to take short cuts he is assured another 3 years as coach before he needs to deliver a top 4 result or have the pressure of performances to answer for

hardwick will only recruit players he rates as long term players that he see's the need for in our future structures

lets give the man & his team a chance to do his work, as long as we still have 3 picks in the top 45-50 im more than happy for him to recruit which players he wants to do his job !

i can kind of see what he is attempting to achieve with recruiting players like houli & sherman, by attempting to recruit A grade integral spine players with our early picks with a sprinkling of B-B+ type fringe,flankers to get us to the next level but the integral ingrediant appears to be the age of the players he is interested in between 20-24 which fits the nucleas of our good players.

LETS GIVE THE PEOPLE INCHARGE THE CHANCE TO DO THEIR JOBS