Ben Johnson

[loki04]

I'm not getting into the "Johnson" arguement but this;

is completely wrong. You could have had a valid arguement in 2008 but Tooves has improved his decision making and even more so his disposal a great deal. I can even tell you why. He is more composed and has finally come to terms with the extra speed of AFL over VFL. With the confidence he is up to the pace he is less panicked and has the time mentally and physically to make the right decision most of the time and effect good disposal.
Towards the last half of 2009 Toovey was in the upper half of the team in terms of his disposal under pressure. Not to mention poise, as evidenced by burning off Aker and almost arrogantly having a bounce.. No mean feat in anyone's book.

Until Toovey shows his form off old I will not accept hacknied discrimination based on the past.

All praise to the Possum King. Hard work deserves some hard recognition.

Still firmly in the 22 until otherwise advised.

He may have improved on his standards but he is still a poor kick and poor decision maker, Toovey brings other things to the table disposal is not one of them.

Johnson is just as bad.

 

[Lockyer24]

From the team that beat Adelaide in the Semi Final we didn't have Ball, Pendlebury and Beams. There's no room for him anymore, and I've been s supporter of him for ages. It's just gunna be tougher for him now to get a gig.

 

[Quicky]

yeah, sorry got mixed up with the ANZAC Medal runner up in the Copeland but you don't just come second in the clubs B&F by being an inconsistent plodder.

I still can't see how Macaffer's 1 game v the Crows shows him to be a capable AFL player, how did he go on ANZAC Day? Barely got a touch. Jason Wild played a great game against the Bombers one ANZAC Day and he turned out to be really good
But I am a fan of McCarthy's I would like to see him in the 22, but not at Johnson's expense.

We will see re his kicking but it is extremely narrow minded to think that he will not be able to kick on his right just because it's not his first year in the system. Ridiculous statement, and I guess you don't teach your old dog new tricks either?

Macaffers game against the Crows was his best game but not his only good game. In fact i'd argue ANZAC day was his only bad game - the price for which he got dropped. He has a composure with the ball and skillset which I think will see him be a very good player for us.

I don't think its ridiculous to suggest that it is unlikely that Johnson can improve his kicking on his right foot. I was speaking to a friend of mine some time ago who studies sports science and he suggested there is strong evidence that to change an entrenched technique (be it a golf swing or kicking the football) that it takes hudreds of hours of repetitive practice to do so (sorry I forget the exact figure). I think it equates to well over a year of practising just that skill to change it.

As for your 22, I'd have Johnson in above Macaffer and Toovey. i'd have Johnson and Rusling in.

Neither Toovey or Macaffer get a game ahead of Johnno - yes Caffs plays a different role but would rather see Thomas/Davis at FP and Johnno coming off the bench or on a wing. It's highly debatable whether O'bree would get a game ahead of him either with Ball in the team.

I don't rate anything Macaffer has done at AFL level so far. You talk about playing well consistently - nobody is more inconsistent than Toovey.

I find it ironic that you were both arguing for people to get off Johnsons back because he is unfairly criticised and yet you both offer up Toovey as the first player you'd drop to include Johnson in the team. I said it before in another thread but Toovey is in the team because he does an effective defensive job on the oppos small forwards. Him and O'Brien are the reason that we no longer get torn apart by small forwards. It also allows Shaw to play an attacking role on the HBF. Toovey also has the ability to help out the other defenders in the air. All in all very important for the backlines structure. Johnson is not nearly accountable enough to replace Toovey as a back pocket in the team. The reason Johnson didn't play that role last year. His best chance is as a run with player in midfield - but again I think we have better options there.

* As an aside I had Macaffer in the team because Dick is injured. Would you have Johnson in ahead of Dick?? Personally I think Davis has become too important as a midfielder to waste as a FP.

 

[shawthing09]

With Quicky and MDC heavily here. Forgive me if I don't see the importance of an exclusively outside player who has a low degree of hurt factor. He certainly was once an important player for us and it's nice that he is putting the efforts in, and that he supported us as a kid. None of that makes up for the fact he is not good enough as a player.

As has been mentioned he is extremely poor defensively. Gives his man too much room to often, bad body positioning, doesn't have the body strength.

He is extremely outside, almost a ridiculous 90% of his possies are uncontested.

He is a poor user of the football. DE is one of the worst stats going around as kicking long to the contest rates as a effective disposal. It ignores the fact that the ball maybe disadvantage side of a player, it ignores the fact that the ball maybe kicked high allowing defenders to get a good punch in, it ignores the fact that he may have blazed to a contest and missed a shorter option that is free. Ben Johnson may not have a high clanger percentage but he certainly wouldn't have a high percentage of completed passes either and a large majority of completed passes would be a good mark by a foward under pressure.

Toovey may make more ugly errors under pressure but he has limited these of late and has the added advantage of being an extremely good lock down small / medium defender. He doesn't need to be getting the ball to be playing a role for the team. Johnson being extremely poor defensively doesn't have this luxury.

 

[Son of Whispy]

I love the man, he is so damn reliable and like Lockyer is soo underrated due to his age.

Would also like to note that he bought me a jager bomb on my 18th birthday

Champion.

He brought you 1 and probably brought himself 10 while he's at it. Before you all get on here and say typical Essendon supporter bagging our beloved magpie, be aware I have known the bloke since he was 14 and played juniors with him. He is a champion bloke and can't believe you guys are debating whether or not he is in your best 22. In my opinion, and I don't watch Collingwood week in or week out, he is in your best 22. With a young squad, he's leadership will be invaluable. Fully fit, he's a hard runner and one of the only few that can break the lines consistintly. In my opinion, for what it's worth, Collingwood don't have enough of these players. Not graced with the best talent, he has 1 thing which a lot of Collingwood players do have is heart. For me for what it's worth, he is in the best 22, but i maybe a bit biased.

 

[Pie eyed]

I think it is far too early to be having the bulk of these discussions.
The older players on the brink of being over-taken and the young turks looking to break into the 22 will all get their chance to put their individual cases in the practice matches and NAB Cup.

All talk of "X" must make way for "Y" is moot if "X" show great form and "Y" does not. Speculation on who's got what trade value are uber premature given a game has not been played.
Ball, Jolly, Thomas and co are all yet to pull on a Pies jumper in anger and we have yet to win a game in 2010.

I'll reserve my judgement on who should do what until after a ball has been bounce at the very earliest.

So far this season, Johnson's only crime is to appear to have bad body language at a training session.

 

[Return of the Pies]

I think it is far too early to be having the bulk of these discussions.
The older players on the brink of being over-taken and the young turks looking to break into the 22 will all get their chance to put their individual cases in the practice matches and NAB Cup.

All talk of "X" must make way for "Y" is moot if "X" show great form and "Y" does not. Speculation on who's got what trade value are uber premature given a game has not been played.
Ball, Jolly, Thomas and co are all yet to pull on a Pies jumper in anger and we have yet to win a game in 2010.

I'll reserve my judgement on who should do what until after a ball has been bounce at the very earliest.

So far this season, Johnson's only crime is to appear to have bad body language at a training session.

Fair call, I think everyone would agree it's about who's going the best at the time, but it's a reasonable debating point and it's great that there's enough talent around for us to have it. The best part is that there are very few walk-up starters in the team and everyone will have to earn their spot.
My opinion, Johnson won't be able to hold his spot for the full year.

 

[charmer]

But Quicky, he's not changing his technique, he's learning to kick more effectively on his right foot. That's a totally different thing.

What I had meant to say in regards to my 22 was that I'd have Johnson and Rusling in ahead of Toovey and Macaffer, I completely stuffed up the writing of that sentence.
I am a fan of Toovey's don't get me wrong (ok I was a massive critic at the start but he's grown on me) but the fact is I would prefer Johnson ahead of him - but maybe that's because I've liked Johnno for a very long time.

Anyway - i'm glad i'm not on the selection commitee, it's way too hard!

 

[Quicky]

But Quicky, he's not changing his technique, he's learning to kick more effectively on his right foot. That's a totally different thing.

What I had meant to say in regards to my 22 was that I'd have Johnson and Rusling in ahead of Toovey and Macaffer, I completely stuffed up the writing of that sentence.
I am a fan of Toovey's don't get me wrong (ok I was a massive critic at the start but he's grown on me) but the fact is I would prefer Johnson ahead of him - but maybe that's because I've liked Johnno for a very long time.

Anyway - i'm glad i'm not on the selection commitee, it's way too hard!

Gotta agree with that!!

 

[Football God]

"ITS COMING BACK, ITS COMING BACK"
he played good that night..

i reckon he'll lead this midfield with our experienced midfielders in ball, o'bree and even pendles (i guess you can say now)

 

[Johnson#26]

i love him it pisses me off how everyone wants to get rid of him and how everyone bags him dispite the fact that he has put his life into the club. Look i know his stuffed up not keeping his skinfolds up to the elite standard but his been a good player for the club not the best but certainly doesnt deserve the shit he cops from the fans.

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Oh yeah thats right his shit under preassure isnt he?

Jonno. Champion.