Ben Lennon being 'schooled' as a defender

[TigerTime88]

Personally I don't rate it. I understand they would want to get him to HBF in order to get the ball in his hands and see what he can do with it offensively, but to me it just seems we don't back our players. My first thought would be throw him up on the HFF/FP and see what he comes up with, back that he has the talent to make an immediate impact because he just might. I mean this guy has been an attacking machine his whole life and plenty of AFL players come straight in and adapt perfectly why not Lennon? It just seems we are raising the white flag or putting a ceiling on their talent before they even play saying his probably not good enough so we won't even give it a try.

Vlaustn's apprenticeship is over by the way....get him in the midfield see what he can do. Having him in there to help out Conca/Cotch and co might make the world of difference and move Grigg out of the side McDonough to HBF.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Playing a young player in a different role in the vfl is not an injustice. Please, enough with this persistent whinging about players learning to play multiple positions. It's the modern game. Get over it. It's extremely ******* irritating.

Newman plays up forward, half back and on the wing. Start a thread about him. It's extremely important to be versatile. Lennon when ready will come into our team (possibly replace Newman at this rate) and have more than one strings to his bow!!

Ohhhhhh no please don't say it's so!!! But his a forward!!! Ohhhhhhhh no. Stupid hardwick... Ohhhhhhh no.,... Etc, etc.... (childish sarcastic ending)

Newman's not a forward though, he's a utility so...

I think where the people, myself included, start to get shitty is when we desperately need a quality small forward but instead of letting the one we drafted develop in that position and transition into AFL to slot in as a genuine piece of the overall team puzzle, they get lumped on the HBF.
I really don't think every player needs to begin life as a HBF'er.
It's the exact same situation with Jack. He's a dual Coleman medalist and one of the few true marking forwards of the comp, so lets have him outside the F50 and make him more versatile. Or we could play forwards as forwards and kick lots of goals and win games.

 

[the push up king]

Newman's not a forward though, he's a utility so...

I think where the people, myself included, start to get shitty is when we desperately need a quality small forward but instead of letting the one we drafted develop in that position and transition into AFL to slot in as a genuine piece of the overall team puzzle, they get lumped on the HBF.
I really don't think every player needs to begin life as a HBF'er.
It's the exact same situation with Jack. He's a dual Coleman medalist and one of the few true marking forwards of the comp, so lets have him outside the F50 and make him more versatile. Or we could play forwards as forwards and kick lots of goals and win games.

I just don't understand the narrow minded ness of the whole situation. And I especially don't understand some of the hysterical reactions around here.
Big griff played back for a season. An experiment that can be considered a flop. Agreed. Yet, he has come back in really shown a new found defensive aspect and willingness to crash packs that he never used to display. Not to mention averaging 4.5 tackles a game (which for someone 200cm is excellent).
Lloyd, Lennon and Gordon are all small forwards. And potentially have been for many years. They know their craft, so being exposed to another position as a learning curve for a few games or even half a season is surely no where near as drastic as people here make out.
For example, I play ball. I'm a 6 foot point gaurd. Depending on our line up or evens just to mix it up ill play forward for half a game or even several games. It gives you an appreciation as to how other players and positions see and read the game. Therefore understanding every move and consequence made in my natural position. You begin to understand the game more.
In lennon's case, as a hbf, he will see what the forwards are doing ahead of him and their movement patterns. He will also see what doesn't work up the ground when another small forward might run to the wrong place or not crumb a kpp. This will make him understand what he needs to do from an alternate view, or different position. Ultimately learning from first hand experience what our coaches and defensive/ midfield leaders are trying to teach him about where and when to go. It's an extremely simple approach that I find crazy that so many people just don't get or fail to see the benefits. He can already slot a goal, so no let's teach him he required defensive element that all modern day forwards need to be very good at!!

 

[KingJ]

Natural gun forward turned average defender, culture.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

I just don't understand the narrow minded ness of the whole situation. And I especially don't understand some of the hysterical reactions around here.
Big griff played back for a season. An experiment that can be considered a flop. Agreed. Yet, he has come back in really shown a new found defensive aspect and willingness to crash packs that he never used to display. Not to mention averaging 4.5 tackles a game (which for someone 200cm is excellent).
Lloyd, Lennon and Gordon are all small forwards. And potentially have been for many years. They know their craft, so being exposed to another position as a learning curve for a few games or even half a season is surely no where near as drastic as people here make out.
For example, I play ball. I'm a 6 foot point gaurd. Depending on our line up or evens just to mix it up ill play forward for half a game or even several games. It gives you an appreciation as to how other players and positions see and read the game. Therefore understanding every move and consequence made in my natural position. You begin to understand the game more.
In lennon's case, as a hbf, he will see what the forwards are doing ahead of him and their movement patterns. He will also see what doesn't work up the ground when another small forward might run to the wrong place or not crumb a kpp. This will make him understand what he needs to do from an alternate view, or different position. Ultimately learning from first hand experience what our coaches and defensive/ midfield leaders are trying to teach him about where and when to go. It's an extremely simple approach that I find crazy that so many people just don't get or fail to see the benefits. He can already slot a goal, so no let's teach him he required defensive element that all modern day forwards need to be very good at!!

I see your point and the whole point in general of giving a player experience from the other end of the stick.
My argument is that a forward should learn to be a forward FIRST. If you plonk a naturally gifted forward down back from the get-go and teach them to negate you run the risk of neutering their offensive instincts.
Let them learn the craft they were drafted for before complicating things and making them a jack-of-all-trades nowhere man.
I'm sure you can teach a player to tackle and man up without subjecting them to seasons of defensive roles.
Griffo's turn around can be attributed to one thing and it isn't his stint in Coburg's backline. Chocco Williams.

 

[TheAnt]

Looking back through really old threads, we've been complaining about it for years now www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/deledio.301147/#post-6812110

 

[theflea]

I just don't understand the narrow minded ness of the whole situation. And I especially don't understand some of the hysterical reactions around here.
Big griff played back for a season. An experiment that can be considered a flop. Agreed. Yet, he has come back in really shown a new found defensive aspect and willingness to crash packs that he never used to display. Not to mention averaging 4.5 tackles a game (which for someone 200cm is excellent).
Lloyd, Lennon and Gordon are all small forwards. And potentially have been for many years. They know their craft, so being exposed to another position as a learning curve for a few games or even half a season is surely no where near as drastic as people here make out.
For example, I play ball. I'm a 6 foot point gaurd. Depending on our line up or evens just to mix it up ill play forward for half a game or even several games. It gives you an appreciation as to how other players and positions see and read the game. Therefore understanding every move and consequence made in my natural position. You begin to understand the game more.
In lennon's case, as a hbf, he will see what the forwards are doing ahead of him and their movement patterns. He will also see what doesn't work up the ground when another small forward might run to the wrong place or not crumb a kpp. This will make him understand what he needs to do from an alternate view, or different position. Ultimately learning from first hand experience what our coaches and defensive/ midfield leaders are trying to teach him about where and when to go. It's an extremely simple approach that I find crazy that so many people just don't get or fail to see the benefits. He can already slot a goal, so no let's teach him he required defensive element that all modern day forwards need to be very good at!!

It was also stated on a video, that playing HFF can be a bit of a graveyard position sometimes, so they like to get the player involved a bit, get the confidence of getting the pill in their hands, and learn from the opp HFF's about the position.

 

[MR]

Conca played defence for his first season and a bit. He's had 30 tackles and is 2nd in the club behind Thomas. I think the backline experiment with him worked and it looks pretty successful with Vlastuin too. A defensive game is vital to an AFL footballer.

Just for comparison, Conca played 17 games in his first season and had a total of 30 tackles.

 

[the push up king]

Conca played defence for his first season and a bit. He's had 30 tackles and is 2nd in the club behind Thomas. I think the backline experiment with him worked and it looks pretty successful with Vlastuin too. A defensive game is vital to an AFL footballer.

Just for comparison, Conca played 17 games in his first season and had a total of 30 tackles.

agreed!!

 

[_RT_]

28 disposals today against a strong Williamstown side. Bring him in this week against the Hawks even if it's the subs role, it's time this kid started playing as he'll allow Vlastuin to move into the midfield more.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Conca played defence for his first season and a bit. He's had 30 tackles and is 2nd in the club behind Thomas. I think the backline experiment with him worked and it looks pretty successful with Vlastuin too. A defensive game is vital to an AFL footballer.

Just for comparison, Conca played 17 games in his first season and had a total of 30 tackles.

Completely agree, it's a vital step in the development of a midfielder.

 

[TheAnt]

It worked with Conca, Ellis and Vlastuin so seems logical to graduate from defence first.

 

[Stylo]

Chuck him into Houli's role, Houli into Grigg's. Robert's your father's brother

 

[tigs2010]

28 disposals today against a strong Williamstown side. Bring him in this week against the Hawks even if it's the subs role, it's time this kid started playing as he'll allow Vlastuin to move into the midfield more.

He plays one good game and he's earnt it? What the hell does McDonough have to do?

 

[richoatthedisco]

I think the difference between Lennon and the others is Lennon has all the attributes to be an elite rebounding defender. Strong in the air, elite kick, moves well. This one might actually be worth sticking with. Now just get Vlastuin in the middle to allow it.

Yep. I see a bit of Bob Murphy about him.

Been banging on about this for a LONG time.

We need classy, skilled, smart small and mid-sized forwards forwards now, not in 2-3 years time, now. Biggest hole in the team. Look at the difference LLoyd made in one game playing over King. I know he's mature aged but he's a natural forward playing UP FORWARD. WOW.

McDonough up back, Lennon up back, Martin up back, hell they even recruited Banfield (not that I care for him that much as a player) and played him as a small running defender in the preseason.

**** you Hardwick.

So we now have Lloyd, Gordon and Knights as small-mid-sized forwards. How many do you want? We also lack polish bringing the ball out of defence, which is the launching pad for so many attacks.

Ben could be the next Steve Johnson who knows but half back is a far better spot for a player like him to get his taste for AFL footy, build his confidence and make him feel like a genuine AFL player. He's not quick. He's not super fit. He just won't be able to get away from a seasoned half back flank and he won't be able to provide the repeat tackle efforts needed in the forward line. It's so much easier to beat a man than to have to chase and harry a number of players in a zone as it pings around in the back line. On the half back flank he will be have the field in front of him and be able to use his precision right boot to maximum effect. He will get some free kicks as the ball is switched. He will be able to take kick ins and again get more of a feel for the leather. Just look at his physical attributes. He's a bit Brendon Goddard, Bryce Gibbs, maybe more Bob Murphy at the moment. These guys are gun half backs who can also be gun half forwards. Noticeably all three have spent more time on half back flanks than Hff's. The reason why he was such a good half forward as a junior was because of his contested marking. Do we really want him to be a contested mark focus at AFL level at this stage with his body. I don't think so. Let him get some kicks and experience on the half back line and build his confidence, fitness, body size in the meantime and in time he may be a gun half forward, winger who knows.

Play him back. Give Vlastuin more midfield time and potentially that gives Martin, Cotchin, Lids more time resting forward - and the class HFF that we need.

Far too much common sense for these whinging Chicken Littles.

Looking back through really old threads, we've been complaining about it for years now www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/deledio.301147/#post-6812110

And it made Lids a more rounded, accountable player. Wowzers.

Conca played defence for his first season and a bit. He's had 30 tackles and is 2nd in the club behind Thomas. I think the backline experiment with him worked and it looks pretty successful with Vlastuin too. A defensive game is vital to an AFL footballer.

Just for comparison, Conca played 17 games in his first season and had a total of 30 tackles.

Stop making sense.

Another point is that Lennon played off half-back plenty in U/18s as well. He was never exclusively a forward.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

If we laud King's defensive effort in the forwards; why are people complaining about Lennon starting in the backs learning about accountability and defensive pressure.

Beginning his AFL career in the backs will not magically make him forget what he has learned/nous as a forward.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Did I see Nathan Fyfe playing off half back yesterday? Only saw parts of the game but it looked like it to me!

 

[_RT_]

He plays one good game and he's earnt it? What the hell does McDonough have to do?

Lennons played 3-4 good games in a row, same with McDonough. Both have earned the call up, now we just need Hardwick to make the call.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Lennon and McDonough for Thomas and Grigg .
McDonough takes Vlaustin spot on HBF . Vlaustin and Arnott rotate as inside mid for Thomas . Lennon and gordan rotate as outside mid forward in Griggs role .
Greater ball use and pace , win every where .

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

He plays one good game and he's earnt it? What the hell does McDonough have to do?

Needs to get in on that scam Edwards and Grigg have got going...

 

[Bojangles17]

28 disposals today against a strong Williamstown side. Bring him in this week against the Hawks even if it's the subs role, it's time this kid started playing as he'll allow Vlastuin to move into the midfield more.

He seems to be thriving under the circumstances, also worth noting that being such a poor side, he might be in starvation corner on the hff , looks to be seeing plenty of action in the back half, I'm hoping to see him in the seniors real soon