Bendigo Bombers Alignment

[Yoda_]

Just looking through the VFL section of the Bombers board, and Ant555 has some interesting words to say about out alignment with the Bendigo side, just thought I would post them out here on the main board, and see what people think.

Now to more interesting matters. I have been asking around a few people i know with regards to the Bendigo alignment over the last few weeks and there was some interesting comments made by Peter Schwab in this weeks VFL/TAC Cup record. You can draw your own conclusions aboiut the following.

Essendon have approached AFLV about a stand alone side but the feed back i got from somone in the know is it is unlikely a new stand alone licence would be issued.

ALFV is still standing by its previous stance about no more licence's.

The VFL stance is interesting. They are not against another stand alone side but they are not keen on more than three.
Schwab said the following

Quote:
Firstly AFLV has veto over all VFL licences. However if Essendon where to stand alone in the VFL it would put us up to 3 stand alone clubs and that is as many as we would want.
Secondly they are not impressed with the condition of the QEO and are concerned long term about the future condition.
They belive the ground is being over used and its recovery is in doubt if it continues to have a heavy work load. They want to see less local footy played there if the ground is to continue being VFL venue.

Schwabs comment on this was as follows

Quote:
I think it is being over used. Too many teams are playing and training at the venue. I dont think it can stand up to that sort of usage. We have met with Bendigo council to discuss it and they are doing everything possible to resolve this issue.
This leads into a problem as far as the Bendigo leauge is concerned. I have spoken to someone i know who is involved with one of the Bendigo leauge clubs and the comment was there is no way the Bendigo leauge would be happy or consider giving up games at the QEO as it is their premier venue.
So that means that BFL games will continue to be played there.
Any Council moves to remove the BFL would be hugely unpopular.

On top of the ground usage the prolonged drought that has severly effected the Bendigo region is showing no real signs of ending and the area will need three or four years of good rainfall to get things back to a normal state.

Now the word is the stronger Melbourne based VFL clubs like Williamstown, Port Melb etc are not adverse to having an Essendon side in the comp playing out of WH as the traveling is less and the ground surface is better.
It is also better for their supporters.

Next we have the Frankston issue. The VFL has told them they need to get their house in order.
When asked if Frankston would cotinue to get VFL funding Schwab

Quote:
we cant guarantee they will get the same amount of funding going forward. We are not saying we wont ,but at this stage we can't guarantee any of our VFL clubs what the financial model will be until we resolve our whole funding model with AFLV.
He also said

Quote:
the closer to break even point they can get the better it is for them.
Frankston know they have some challenges to lift their revenue. As a stand alone VFL club it is always difficult to remain competative on- field becasue it takes more money. Frankston needs to tread that fine line between maintaining a posative balance sheet and maintaining a competative team.
So what do we draw from all of this ?
I am not totaly sure but i can say that Essednon are certainly looking to change the situation.

You can say that unless the QEO imrpoves dramaticly which is unlikely then the future of games in Bendigo is in real doubt and i am not just talking about this season. It will be a problem for several seasons until we get a few years of good rainfall. Even then the heavy work load will work against it.

You can join the dots and say the VFL is not concerned if they get out of Bendigo.

You could also add 1+1 to get three and say the VFL would probably like us to align with Frankston so that the financial and player input we have will see them become a competative side. that way the Frankston problem is fixed and if Bendigo go under the Bendigo problem is fixed.

There is also a school of thought that the Bendigo aligment could stand up but be based more out of Melbourne with most games at WH or even the posability of Essendon taking over the Bendigo licence if Bendigo can not stand up as a stand alone side.

Whatever happens with Bendigo the condition of the QEO is going to be a crutial sticking point.

I can not say 100% what will happen but i will end with a quote from someone well conected with the issues and that is " expect some serious changes next year "

Could the Bombers be on the move down the peninsula, gee the Frankston Bombers, has a good ring to it, although there is a local MPNFL side called the Frankston Bombers.

Would be ideal, and a change of scenery, may attract a few more of the Peninsula players to try their hand at VFL level, having AFL listed players around them, only thing would be training and playing with them would not be ideal, but could it work??

Thoughts???

Thanks in advance HFF_07

 

[eth-dog]

IMO I prefer stand-alone rather than Franga. but either would be better than Bendigo

 

[saint leo]

What about North Ballarat, is that an option?

Would seem logical St Kilda would align with Frankston when they move to seaford next year but not sure if thats going to happen.

 

[Yoda_]

What about North Ballarat, is that an option?

Would seem logical St Kilda would align with Frankston when they move to seaford next year but not sure if thats going to happen.

North Ballarat are aligned with (correct me if im wrong) Carlton, and seem quite happy with this.

People seem pretty reasonable with just getting Bendigo's licence, I do have question marks over this, if Bendigo were to lose their licence, it would then eliminate the bye, making it a 12 team (i think) competition, without a bye.

St.Kilda down to Frankston would be a good equation, but they are aligned with Sandringham, although that could be an option for the Bombers also.

 

[The Dustbin]

Carlton are aligned with Northern Bullants. North Ballarat have Kangaroos, who also share with Werribee.

 

[saint leo]

North Ballarat are with North Melb but so are williamstown. Not sure why North have 2?

 

[eth-dog]

North Ballarat are with North Melb but so are williamstown. Not sure why North have 2?

Willi's with Bulldogs...

 

[LeeARM]

If we can't get our own license then we should just remain Bendigo and keep playing games at Windy Hill because QEO can't handle the VFL matches.
Would Bendigo be happy with this? Well, that doesn't interest me.

 

[pazza]

Rumour yesterday that the Bullants arrangement may change still and that Carlton could go standalone and get the last standalone licence.

 

[efcboy]

i want essendon stand alone playing out of windy hill - bring the people/fans back to windy hill. put some extra resources into it. at present i'm concerned our good young players might consider leaving if they are stuck playing with the rabble which is bendigo bombers - none of them appear to enjoy playing there.

 

[IsDonIsGood]

Surely a stand alone club playing out of Windy Hill is the best option. The board has to make a decision about what's best for the club, and thats putting the EFC first in decisions like this. **** bendigo, essendons needs to be number 1, as can be seen with the QEO, country footy has its roots deep and the locals, aside from probaby the essendon supporters, wouldn't miss the bombers much. The team does a massive amount for the community as it is. There is a path into AFL for them up there via the 18's. It's time we bring the two's back to Windy Hill and get everyone pulling in the same direction again.

 

[ant555]

Rumour yesterday that the Bullants arrangement may change still and that Carlton could go standalone and get the last standalone licence.

Strange that you would by into this rumour Pazza.
If AFLV has no intention of giving Essendon a stand alone licence then how are Carlton getting one?

And for all of everyone continually saying we should just stand alone read my words.

At this stage i have not heard anything different from AFLV in reagrds to any more licences. Until you here anything different from them it will not be happening.

I have spoken to several people from the club that do know what is going on and the emphatic response has been stand alone is not an option becasue the licence wont be issued.

Essendon have inquired about the possablity of a new licence. They have looked at that as their first option but they where told sorry no new licences will be issued.

So dont bother putting your thoughts down about how good a stand alone side will be and how it will make us better becasue until you actually here AFLV say we will issue more license's it wont happen.

Also you can forget the AFL getting involved. They already tried to get more members on the AFLV board ( well actually the tried to take it over ) but it was rejected in a unanimous vote despite threats from the AFL to pull funding.

In an article in this weeks VFL record Peter Scwab this week spoke about the dangers of increasing the numbers on AFL lists to the traditional VFA clubs. In this article it was again mentioned that the VFL does not wan't too many stand alone sides as they do not wan't to be an AFL reserves comp.

So unless the AFL introduces some sort of reserves comp the stand alone side is highly unlikely. We will know for sure some time next month as thats when AFLV will have a board meeting. If they say yes then Essendon will have its stand alone side. However having pressed everyone i know ( and some i dont ) who is in a position to have info on the subject the one answer i have been given by everyone is it won't happen.

Of course there is an easy out here. I have already given a hint which was backed up by a poster that is always in the know.

The QEO is not going to be in great shape at any stage over the next two years even if we do get rain. With Bendigo being on stage 4 restrictions and having less than half of their average yearly rainfall the ground is not going to have enough water to get it back in shape.
The Bendigo league sides are not going to stop playing there so the wrokload will not decrease.
So this gives Essendon a different option. The ground is alomost certainly going to be not up to VFL standard for long periods next year and the following year even if Bendigo does get good rainfall.
We can basicly sign a two year deal with Bendigo to play most games out of Windy Hill and have the main training base here in Melbourne. hopefully this leads to attracting 4 or 5 better quality VFL players that will help with the depth.

I will say this though and that is if we have the same injury rate even a stand alone Essendon side will struggle. It would be better than what has happened at various stages this year but it would still be in the bottom 4 if the injury rates stays the same.
Lets face the alignment has had no luck this year with injuries to Essendon listed players as well a some of the players Bendigo recruited. At no stage this year have they had the services of Scanlon, Malone, Miller and Hulme all in the side at the same time which hurt during the period when they where smashed by 100 most weeks.

 

[ant555]

Surely a stand alone club playing out of Windy Hill is the best option. The board has to make a decision about what's best for the club, and thats putting the EFC first in decisions like this. **** bendigo, essendons needs to be number 1, as can be seen with the QEO, country footy has its roots deep and the locals, aside from probaby the essendon supporters, wouldn't miss the bombers much. The team does a massive amount for the community as it is. There is a path into AFL for them up there via the 18's. It's time we bring the two's back to Windy Hill and get everyone pulling in the same direction again.

Did you even bother to read my post ??

The second paragraph

Essendon have approached AFLV about a stand alone side but the feed back i got from somone in the know is it is unlikely a new stand alone licence would be issued.

No point saying the board should do what ever is best for Essendon. They already have and that pathway is currently blocked.

I guess the real question that should be asked is why we signed the last agreement when we could have got a licence at that stage.
If we had not treeted the reserves as a cost saving venture then we would not be in the current position.

i want essendon stand alone playing out of windy hill - bring the people/fans back to windy hill. put some extra resources into it. at present i'm concerned our good young players might consider leaving if they are stuck playing with the rabble which is bendigo bombers - none of them appear to enjoy playing there.

Although your opinion is based around getting better results you seem to draw some conclusions based on very few facts.
Now for a start you say put some extra resorces into a stand alone side. Well one of the major problems is the club has not put enough into the Bendigo alignment. It has been treated as a cost saving venture to save us between $300k to $500k a season.
The simple fact of the things is if Essendon pumped an extra $200k a season into the current alignment it would produce better results as well.

As far as players leaving becasue they have to play with Bendigo what a crock. If they do not have the drive to push themselves no matter who they are playing for then they are not up to AFL level. they do not have the mind set to make it at AFL level if they are thinking like that. You have to remember that these guys do not think like ordinary Joe Public. They have a different level of drive and self belief.
If you asked them the would say of course i would rather not be playing for Bendigo and losing every week but for the ones who will make good players it does not stop them from pushing themselves to get there.

Lets face it this year has been the first year Bendigo has been really poor and it has not always been a great development enviroment playing in sides that have lost by 100 a few times.

Previously it has not been this bad. Last year they won 6 games and it only really fell away when the Essendon injury list got so bad that there was only 1 or 2 Essendon players going around for Bendigo. In fact at the end of the season there was only a couple of rookie players going around as we only had 22 fit senior players to pick from.

In 2007 they finished 8th but only had 8 fit Essendon players to pick in the final and three of them got injured during the game and they got run down after having a handy lead.

In 2006 it was only 4 wins mainly becasue of the massive injury toll Essendon had and also becasue of injuries to a couple of the good VFL players Bnedigo had at the time.

In 2005 the played finals and won the first week and then lost the second week.

There is no doubt that injuries have played a big part in how Bendigo has gone. I for one would certainly love to have us back at WH. It would be my number one choice but i am not going to sit back and bag Bendigo like it is all their fault. It is a simple fact that injuries, lack of funding by Essendon plus limited job opportunities in Bendigo and limited sponsorship dollars have resulted in a failure to attract quality VFL players.
If the club itself had treated it more seriously then we would not be where we are now.

 

[lionbear]

As someone who lives in the Bendigo region I believe it is time for the alignment to finish.

I was a member of the Bendigo Bombers when it first happened, but lost interest after 2 years in going to watch them play as the team was purely about getting players right for Essendon rather then winning games (As it should be).

Personally I think all VFL alignments should end and a stand alone reserves comp be established. I think it is hurting the VFL in its current state more then anything.

Since year one the Bombers have always wanted games shifted back to Windy Hill and think there would be worse surfaces in the league then the QEO.

Bendigo really need to sit down and work out what the future is with the VFL and even if there is one. For Essendon I think its time to move back to Windy Hill full time.

 

[ant555]

As someone who lives in the Bendigo region I believe it is time for the alignment to finish.

I was a member of the Bendigo Bombers when it first happened, but lost interest after 2 years in going to watch them play as the team was purely about getting players right for Essendon rather then winning games (As it should be).

Personally I think all VFL alignments should end and a stand alone reserves comp be established. I think it is hurting the VFL in its current state more then anything.

Since year one the Bombers have always wanted games shifted back to Windy Hill and think there would be worse surfaces in the league then the QEO.

Bendigo really need to sit down and work out what the future is with the VFL and even if there is one. For Essendon I think its time to move back to Windy Hill full time.

I agree with a lot of this.
Ideally with GC and West Syd coming in it is time for an East Coast reserves comp but i dont see the AFL going down that road. I guess one issue is gorunds as the Dome and MCG are not big on lead up games.
A few venues would need some upgrading. Geelong would be ok becasue they dont had dramas with playing before the seniors. Windy Hill is pretty much ok but may need anothet toilet block if they get regular crowds of 1500 or so.
The same with the Bulldogs. The playing surface at Whitten ovel is ok, it would just need an outer toilet block.
Pricness Park is ok , could just use a freshen up.
Victoria park needs money spent on pubilic areas. Surafce is ok.
Have not been to Arden Street for a while but it would only need a reasonable toilet block and canteen.
The same with Waverly for the Hawks.
Not sure where the Saints would go given the are getting out of Moorabbin. Big waste of a venue for me this place. Could have easily been upraged to a 30,000 seat stadium with the right money spent.
Richmond have a problem, the surface at Punt Road is not great which is why they dont train there all the time.
Dont know where Melbourne would play. Probaly Casey with the new training agreement in place.

Anyway all of the above is not relevent as it is unlikely to happen.
Who knows we may simply ned up taking over Bendigo licence if the support in Bendigo continues to fall away and we are playing games out of Bendigo.

 

[lionbear]

Who knows we may simply need up taking over Bendigo licence if the support in Bendigo continues to fall away and we are playing games out of Bendigo.

Could there be pressure from AFL clubs if one of Essendon or Carlton get rejected for a stand alone licence?

I think this time in 5 years the pressure from the Victorian AFL clubs to break away from the VFL will be to strong to ignore. Plus I think one or two srtonger VFL clubs will be sick of the restrictions placed on the players they loan from the AFL.

 

[efcboy]

after further detail from ant555 it really is an awkward situation. the whole concept/league is a mess at present really. there's not enough money generating to justify an afl reserves league across the board - ant555's idea of an east coast reserves league has some merit particularly when the two new teams come in.

one thing that definitely needs to happen regardless of whether its essendon vfl or bendigo is more resources going into the club. i'd also like to see more ownership from a coaching point of view - at present the coaching staff alters from week to week depending on if the game clashes with essendons. for the players benefit it may be more practical to consistently have the same guys week after week. tough situation.

 

[FBDonkey]

Sheedy was on SEN a couple of weeks ago arguing the case for a stand alone side. He suggested that Windy Hill is a great resource that needs to be used more.

I like the idea of continuing the alignment but shifting games to Windy Hill for the next couple of years if we cant get a stand alone licence. As an essendon supporter interested in the development of our youngsters, i find it very difficult that we play so many games in Bendigo as there are very few opportunities to go and see the boys play, and we dont seem to get much tv coverage on ABC.

 

[ant555]

Could there be pressure from AFL clubs if one of Essendon or Carlton get rejected for a stand alone licence?

I think this time in 5 years the pressure from the Victorian AFL clubs to break away from the VFL will be to strong to ignore. Plus I think one or two srtonger VFL clubs will be sick of the restrictions placed on the players they loan from the AFL.

I think the issue of an AFL reserves comp will continue to bubble in the back ground. The AFL has sat down and explored the idea but have currently put it on the back burner by saying it is not in their plans at the moment.

It would be no surprise at all if half way through next year the subject comes up again. Even more so if several AFL Clubs put their hands up and say they are not happy with the alignments.
On top of this the pressure of having a strong comp for Sydney and West Sydney to play in and to a slightly lesser degree Brisbane and the Gold Coast could see the issue come up again.
It could also rest partly on the next media agreement and how much they look like getting. there are a few clubs that will need slightly more AFL funding to have the extra players on the list and cover all costs.

I will not be shocked to see the Eastern Coast reserves back on the table again in the next couple of years.


Moving on to a couple of issues with Bendigo that lionbears original post had me thinking about.
Firstly support from Bendigo. In reality the Bendigo Bombers / Pioneers have always been in some sort of war with the Bendigo Leauge. It has never been smooth sailing.
The buggest issue is local players. The Bendigo leauge clubs do not want to loose their best younger players to the VFL which is understandable but on the other side of the card Bendigo can not really stand up if it is not actually getting all of the best kids from the region to play with them.
This casues an instant problem and agnst for both sides.
For Bendigo to work it would need to get the following kids from the Pioneers if they are not drafted. Nick Artur (Sandhurst) Pascale Craig (Eaglehawk) Anthony Dennis (Eaglehawk) Alsitai Evans (Echuca) Chris Prockter (Tyntynder) Broddy Dickson (Echuca united) Daniel Jones (Golden Square) Matt Gilmore ( Eaglehawk) Daniel read (Eaglehawk) Julian Lockwood (Eaglehawk) and there are a couple of others.
The trouble is these kids are also an enormous plus for their local club to keep.
We could/should have the set up in place for these kids to be on our list. It would not be hard to help organise employment or pay Uni/tafe fees for those who want to move to Melbourne to add to the match payments they get ( i think Bendigo currently pays between $500 and $1500 per game).
This would also apply to the Murray Bushrangers kids.
I am sure a very good pathway program with the above offers would entice young kids to come on board.
We could have a bigger Melbourne based training squad and get these kids into the system as another AFL pathway that is overseen by a strong AFL club.
Once again the issue is with ripping the tallent out of country leagues that causes friction.

There is another thing that has disapointed me this year and that is the from of the htree Murray Bushrangers boys who have come on baord this year.
Brodie A'Vard ,Ben Birthisel and Dash Barolli where all players talked about as being on the fringe of rookie selection. A'Vard played under 18 Champs for NSW while Brithisel and Barolli where both in the Bushies GF winning side and none have looked like pushing for senior selection. Now Barolli has been unlucky with injury and played only three games and Birthisel the same with only 6 games so that does not really help.

What also has not helped is other inuries. Kye Millar was great early in the season but has not been seen for 4 or 5 weeks . We have virtually got nothing from Joel Malone. Carmeri has struggled to find form. Hulme took half a season to get himself injury free and match fit. David Martin has hardly played.
All of this really hurt as they cleaned out most of the list after last season and brought in about 50 players who where 21 and under and in development mode to see if the could find 7 or 8 good quality VFL players.

There have been a number of issues that have effected this years results.

 

[LeeARM]

We can basicly sign a two year deal with Bendigo to play most games out of Windy Hill and have the main training base here in Melbourne. hopefully this leads to attracting 4 or 5 better quality VFL players that will help with the depth.

What do you know? My idea was good.

If we can't get our own license then we should just remain Bendigo and keep playing games at Windy Hill because QEO can't handle the VFL matches.

also, I found this bit funny

In this article it was again mentioned that the VFL does not wan't too many stand alone sides as they do not wan't to be an AFL reserves comp.

 

[LeeARM]

Ant, if you don't think Neagle can make it at AFL standard, who do you think should be our Matthew Lloyd replacement in a few years?

 

[ant555]

Ant, if you don't think Neagle can make it at AFL standard, who do you think should be our Matthew Lloyd replacement in a few years?

Someone who can play consistant footy. Who knows what type of player it will be . Lets face it 900 goal FF dont come around every year. It could be we end up with smaller forwards kicking 30 or 40 a season.

Neagle can play but currently he is showing no signs of moving forward other than he has strung games together this season.

 

[LeeARM]

Someone who can play consistant footy. Who knows what type of player it will be . Lets face it 900 goal FF dont come around every year. It could be we end up with smaller forwards kicking 30 or 40 a season.

Neagle can play but currently he is showing no signs of moving forward other than he has strung games together this season.

I'm not expecting to have the next Matthew Lloyd, I was wondering if you could see any other players in our squad being our next full forward if you don't believe Neagle is up to it.

 

[FBDonkey]

I'm not expecting to have the next Matthew Lloyd, I was wondering if you could see any other players in our squad being our next full forward if you don't believe Neagle is up to it.

I think we have 1 too many key defenders with Hooker, Hurley, Pears and Daniher.

I see either Daniher/Hurley going to CHF, or if Gumby comes up, maybe Daniher to FF.

Any1 else think this is a likely scenario?

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

It's all well and good to say that Daniher or Hooker can play FF but will they be any good?