Best from 2002 Draft?

[F-U]

Wells is better than Selwood and always will be.

Rawlings is better than Selwood and always will be.

I like Selwood but he has a lot to prove before being mentioned in the same breath as the other two guys.

Wells is so far behind Selwood it isnt funny. Cant believe the comparison is being made. Wells is just a receiver. A downhill skier at the best of times. Selwood is a consistent tough uncompromising defender who was unlucky not to be AA this year. Its sad that so many Victorians watch so little football nowadays. The knowledge of the game in that state is so minimal which explains the ladder positions

 

[mark73]

beep beep beep

Back that one up fella. He had his best season.

He had a good year but things like All Australian captaincy don't particularly impress me. I recall Paul Kelly getting it ahead of Wayne Carey twice IIRC in years where Carey was supremely head and shoulders above anyone else in the competition, but Kelly played for Sydney who at that stage were the AFL/media love child, bit like the WB are atm. Also, in a year when your club finishes in the top 8 and you are your clubs only 'real' avenue to goal, 74 goals is good, but not mindblowing. Probably more a reflection on how well their midfield performed throughout the season.

Btw I'm not saying he's not a great player, just that I don't think he's any better a player than Shannon Grant. Probably more endearing to the fans, more endearing to his club and probably a better role model. But a better footballer? No. Shannon Grant played the role of a Brad Johnson for us in 2005 and singlehandedly pulled us to victories on probably 4-5 occasions, hence we ended up finishing 5th.

 

[mark73]

Yeah Brad Johnson by an absolute mile!

And that would be based purely on the fact that I doubt you'd even know what Grants CV would entail.

 

[rick James]

Hmm not enough shown for J-Riv in this thread imo.

 

[Swans_Premiers]

Malceski will end up being the best. Has been a late started due to being injured all of 2004 but is comming along very very nicely

 

[CrazyQ]

Wells walks over Selwood just like Biggie walks over Pac.

No contest.

 

[Luke__Hodge]

Wells is so far behind Selwood it isnt funny. Cant believe the comparison is being made. Wells is just a receiver. A downhill skier at the best of times. Selwood is a consistent tough uncompromising defender who was unlucky not to be AA this year. Its sad that so many Victorians watch so little football nowadays. The knowledge of the game in that state is so minimal which explains the ladder positions

I agree with you in the main about Victorians not looking outside their state, but I'm different. I know heaps about your players I rate Selwood very highly. I just think that Wells is so unfairly criticised so I am a bit defensive of him. You have to consider also that he is playing in a struggling team. At the Eagles Wells would look a lot better.

In relation to Rawlings he is one of my favourites so maybe I am biased, but such a maligned player for what he does. Would be the number one tagger in the league all things being fair and equal.

 

[Luke__Hodge]

Hmm not enough shown for J-Riv in this thread imo.

Rivers also is very, very underrated. Before he hurt his elbow was carving them a new one, as was Danny Jacobs for us before he tore his hamstring off the bone. But as much as I love the two of them I would pick Wells without a moments thought.

 

[kane249]

Hmm not enough shown for J-Riv in this thread imo.

Probably cause he's not as highly rated outside of the Demons as he is by their supporters?

 

[juddy_Like]

Il break down your response so its a more easy to follow for you. Ok.

I'm finding it hard to respond, because you seem a little incoherent for some reason, but I'll do my best. I suspect your struggling with the concept of defensive midfield tagger i.e Selwood, Stenglein, Braum etc, etc .

Selwood is a flexible player. Are you telling me Defensive midfield players play on the last line of defense???? Well this is what Selwood did for the latter half of the year. He can also play as a running defender and yes he can tag. Braun is a wingman who is one of the best players below hes feet. Steinglein is our only true defensive tagger.

These guys can get their own ball but their main role, with the Weagles 2006 gameplan, was to tag opponents, and provide blocks and space for Judd to run into. I'm not sure whether you get to see much footy, but if you grab yourself a video of some Weagles games you'll see what I mean.

Now here is where your wrong. Iv watched every eagles game for about the last 'x' amount of yrs, not suprising considering im an eagles supporter since knee-high. But are you duplicating Aka's words when you say we block for Judd???? If you watched the Brisbane game, then your right. But do you watch many eagles games apart from this?? We play a high possession, play-on style of football. The one that comes off the top of my head is the Adelaide game. Obviously teams that are good at locking down i.e Sydney limit this flow in which we have to rely on generating run off HB etc.

Sure in a ideal world, we would block for Judd every single time (lets face it, the premierships in the bag if we could), but point being its not an ideal world. Its not because we dont, its because we cant. Its just too predictable.

It was a very successful strategy when Judd was playing, and managed to sneak the Weagles a flag. Obviously such a one-man dominated game plan is only possible when you have a pleyer as good as Judd.

Are you saying Cousins and Kerr are B-grade players??? The eagles midfield is that damm good for a reason, in which you have completly missed the point.

Trying to work out why you mentioned Glass. But since you brought it up, I rate him as possibly the worse AA selection in the history of that competition as many others do. Whenever the Blues play Weagles, Fev always kicks 6 or more on the guy. Perhaps I have a different view of Glass, because Fev always seems to make him look like a basket case. Matty Scarlett is about 400% better than Glass.

I brought up Glass to couteract your previous point which im not going to bother and go back to. Glass worst AA in the history of the comp??? Well thats your opinion. But whats fact is that Glass has to defend the entire D50. No help. Its fact that Glass was the best FB in 06. Rutten was close but he had plenty of defensive help from Johncock, Mcleoud etc.

Have you ever watched Glass play other than the times Fev has owned him??? Fev has kicked a bad a few times... But did you see how well the ball were coming in?? How open the 50 was??? As i said before, if someone else was on him, Fev would of kicked 12 or 15.

 

[kane249]

And that would be based purely on the fact that I doubt you'd even know what Grants CV would entail.

Hows this then

Grant
Premiership side 1999
Best and Fairest 2001
Runner-up Best and Fairest 2003, 04, 05
Norm Smith Medal 1999
All-Australian 2005
International Rules Series 2005
AFL Rising Star nominee 1996
Pre-season Premiership side 1998

Johnson
Best and Fairest 1999, 2002,2006;
2nd Best and Fairest 2003;
3rd Best and Fairest 2000, 2004;
All-Australian 1999, 2000, 2002;
All-Australian Captain 2006
International Rules Series 1998, 2000, 2002, 2003;
Leading Goalkicker 2001 (49), 2006(74);
Best Club Person 1996, 1998;
AFL Rising Star nominee 1995.

Based on those CV's like i said Johnno by a mile.

But Let's settle this the old fashioned way, via a poll

 

[juddy_Like]

Hows this then

Grant
Premiership side 1999
Best and Fairest 2001
Runner-up Best and Fairest 2003, 04, 05
Norm Smith Medal 1999
All-Australian 2005
International Rules Series 2005
AFL Rising Star nominee 1996
Pre-season Premiership side 1998

Johnson
Best and Fairest 1999, 2002,2006;
2nd Best and Fairest 2003;
3rd Best and Fairest 2000, 2004;
All-Australian 1999, 2000, 2002;
All-Australian Captain 2006
International Rules Series 1998, 2000, 2002, 2003;
Leading Goalkicker 2001 (49), 2006(74);
Best Club Person 1996, 1998;
AFL Rising Star nominee 1995.

Based on those CV's like i said Johnno by a mile.

To be honest mate, thats all i would care about.

 

[kane249]

And that would be based purely on the fact that I doubt you'd even know what Grants CV would entail.

Refer to the poll i've started if you would like a definitive answer on who people think is the better of the two players, and by what margin as well

 

[kane249]

To be honest mate, thats all i would care about.

Doesn't make Grant the better player though. Having a flag doesn't make someone a better player then someone else, other wise you could mount a case that Rojo is a better player then Robert Harvey

And apart from F-U no one in there right mind would agree with that one!

 

[mark73]

Hows this then

Grant
Premiership side 1999
Best and Fairest 2001
Runner-up Best and Fairest 2003, 04, 05
Norm Smith Medal 1999
All-Australian 2005
AFL Rising Star nominee 1996
Pre-season Premiership side 1998

Johnson
Best and Fairest 1999, 2002,2006;
All-Australian 1999, 2000, 2002;
All-Australian Captain 2006
Leading Goalkicker 2001 (49), 2006(74);
AFL Rising Star nominee 1995.

Based on those CV's like i said Johnno by a mile.

But Let's settle this the old fashioned way, via a poll

You can settle it however you want. People around here don't like Grant as proven on a main board poll, and the media are in love with Johnson, Mr nice guy, and this is Bigfooty after all, but given you're also obviously a keyboard warrior I'm not surprised you want a poll to prove what ever point you have, but it doesn't change my thinking champ. Oh, and I deleted the ones out of Johnsons "CV" that have no bearing on the debate. International rules? Troy Makepeace did that and the following year was delisted. In Grants I also highlighted probably one of the real biggies.

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

If you look at who voted for who then you will see that about 11 of Selwoods votes are from biased eagles supporters.

From a neutral perspective, Wells is the best.

 

[parrot]

If you look at who voted for who then you will see that about 11 of Selwoods votes are from biased eagles supporters.

From a neutral perspective, Wells is the best.

Correct. I doubt even JW would choose Selwood over Wells. It's just not close.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

How can anyone leave out Cameron Cloke and Luke Mullins from that list

 

[parrot]

How can anyone leave out Cameron Cloke and Luke Mullins from that list

Well, the Blues are trying to reform Cam Cloke after several years of deskilling and excessive weight gain at Collingwood. He's making some good progress, still a lot of work to do to undo the damage.

 

[kane249]

You can settle it however you want. People around here don't like Grant as proven on a main board poll, and the media are in love with Johnson, Mr nice guy, and this is Bigfooty after all, but given you're also obviously a keyboard warrior I'm not surprised you want a poll to prove what ever point you have, but it doesn't change my thinking champ. Oh, and I deleted the ones out of Johnsons "CV" that have no bearing on the debate. International rules? Troy Makepeace did that and the following year was delisted. In Grants I also highlighted probably one of the real biggies.

Don't get me wrong, i do rate Grant, he is a quality player, just i rate Brad Johnson a hell of a lot higher!

Besides its a bit harsh to highlight the Norm Smith medal for Grant given Johnno hasn't even made a grand final yet

If however you want to keep filtering then the Premiership, and pre season flag should also be deleted given they are more a representative of a teams brilliance, rather then an idividuals brilliance. True a team can't win without contributions from individuals, but there have been a lot better players over the years then either grant or Johnsons who havent won flags, again making it not the best indicator of a players quality. Again if a flag is considered to make a player better then another, then Rowan Jones with 1 flag would be considered a better player then Robert harvey, and only a dill would agree with that one!

So at the end your left with purely the individual honours being

Grant
Best and Fairest 2001
Norm Smith Medal 1999
All-Australian 2005
AFL Rising Star nominee 1996

Johnson
Best and Fairest 1999, 2002,2006;
All-Australian 1999, 2000, 2002;
All-Australian Captain 2006
Leading Goalkicker 2001 (49), 2006(74);
AFL Rising Star nominee 1995.

Meaning
-Best and Fairests Johnson has 3 compared to Grants 1
-All-Australian jumpers Johnson has 4 compared to Grant's 1
-Being named captain of an All-Australian is something that happens to only the very elite of the comp, and Johnson wins 1 to nil there as well
-Leading Goal Kicker, well again Johnson wins 2 to nil
-Norm Smith Medals, of course Johnson does have the slight handicap of never playing a grand final, but Grant does have one and Johnson doesn't so 1-0 to Grant here
-Rising Star Nominees is a tie on 1-1 all

So overall Johnson would win 4-1 with 1 tie

Bear in mind you are getting this arguement from someone whos a neutral supporter here as well, i don't have any particular allegiances to either club, i just recognise a better player when i see it

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Also, in a year when your club finishes in the top 8 and you are your clubs only 'real' avenue to goal, 74 goals is good, but not mindblowing. Probably more a reflection on how well their midfield performed throughout the season.

He got 74 goals and 19 touches a game. To me thats pretty mindblowing. When was the last time somebody had season stats like that??

Shannon Grant is just not capable of doing that. Dogs fans know that, people that go for the 14 other clubs know that, and the majority of North fans know that.

 

[kane249]

If you look at who voted for who then you will see that about 11 of Selwoods votes are from biased eagles supporters.

From a neutral perspective, Wells is the best.

Sort of like 3 of the 4 votes for Malceski came from bias swans supporters? or the majority of votes for Kade Simpson came from Bias Carlton supporters?

Do you ever have a valid point?

 

[La Dispute]

Sort of like 3 of the 4 votes for Malceski came from bias swans supporters? or the majority of votes for Kade Simpson came from Bias Carlton supporters?

Do you ever have a valid point?

You don't think many of Selwood's votes came from WC Supporters?

 

[kane249]

You don't think many of Selwood's votes came from WC Supporters?

Didn't say that, 11 of the 30 votes proves the Eagles supporters voted for their man (me being one of them i must admin)

Just that troll Swannies_Rule has had an Eagles inferority complex for awhile now and likes to single them out every time

 

[parrot]

Didn't say that, 11 of the 30 votes proves the Eagles supporters voted for their man (me being one of them i must admin)

Just that troll Swannies_Rule has had an Eagles inferority complex for awhile now and likes to single them out every time

Perhaps another Weagles supporter insecurity complex. Selwood's a tagger - a good one, but still a tagger. Why on Earth would you choose a tagger over a much more talented match-winner like Wells? I think the genesis of this insecurity is the sharp post-Judd midfield talent taper. Quite funny