Big win hides some problems

[just maybe]

OK, we thumped Carlton. It should have been by a lot more, but within that win there were a number of problems carried over from the Richmond game that need to be addressed for when we play sides that aren't so abysmal.

1. Soundly beaten in hard-ball gets again - 41-33. For our supposed 'hard' midfield, that is a real concern. Can't afford this against top 6 sides.

2. Inaccuracy. Hentschel really needs some work on that rubbish run-up, the old goalkicking habits are creeping back in again. Again, can't afford this against top 6 sides.

3. Second quarter lapses. The biggest worry, it has been a constant pattern and it's going to trip us up badly very soon - we can get away with it against the bottom 6, but that's about it. Don't know what the hell is going on, but it's a serious, serious problem. To let Carlton kick 6 of their 9 goals in one quarter while we only kicked 3 is an indictment on the players.

4. Scott Stevens. We have been playing poor sides, so he doesn't have to be exposed so much, but while he provides some reasonable run when in space, he is as weak as a stick and has been muscled out by every opponent he has played on. This is not acceptable, even Torney would be a better bet as a tall defender. Craig's faith in him is, IMHO, misplaced. He has shown nothing with the defensive side of his game.

5. Roo and McGregor carrying injuries (?)...they've been out of it against some average players...a real worry

6. Lairising. A few players seem to take these games at the moment as a bit of a lark. Time Craig gives them a stern warning and maybe one or two are given a benching or a drop to the SANFL for a week.

Thoughts?

I want this team to win the premiership this year, but there's areas to be addressed.

 

[- PC -]

2. Inaccuracy. Hentschel really needs some work on that rubbish run-up, the old goalkicking habits are creeping back in again. Again, can't afford this against top 6 sides.

Is Hentschell the only innacurate one? While I agree our accuracy is poor ( I felt it cost us momentum against the Tigers and caused TW to keep the flood) to use Hentschells name is misleading.

3. Second quarter lapses. The biggest worry, it has been a constant pattern and it's going to trip us up badly very soon - we can get away with it against the bottom 6, but that's about it. Don't know what the hell is going on, but it's a serious, serious problem. To let Carlton kick 6 of their 9 goals in one quarter while we only kicked 3 is an indictment on the players.

Dont know why this is and yes it is a worry... are the AFC going flat out and dont have enough in the tank?

4. Scott Stevens. We have been playing poor sides, so he doesn't have to be exposed so much, but while he provides some reasonable run when in space, he is as weak as a stick and has been muscled out by every opponent he has played on. This is not acceptable, even Torney would be a better bet as a tall defender. Craig's faith in him is, IMHO, misplaced. He has shown nothing with the defensive side of his game.

So who else is there? I agree if people were fit he wouldnt be in the side. Start shaking some joojoo at all those unfit kpps

5. Roo and McGregor carrying injuries (?)...they've been out of it against some average players...a real worry

A half injured Roo is better than none. KMacs injury must be game manageable otherwise he wouldnt be playing..but his output is so far down he may as well rest.

6. Lairising. A few players seem to take these games at the moment as a bit of a lark. Time Craig gives them a stern warning and maybe one or two are given a benching or a drop to the SANFL for a week.

You named Hentschell yet you didnt name Thompson?

---------------

I do agree , winning is the time to look at areas that need fixing. I do see some of the issues you raised above as areas that need fixing... I just wonder how much tinkering is needed though

 

[Crow_68]

OK, we thumped Carlton. It should have been by a lot more, but within that win there were a number of problems carried over from the Richmond game that need to be addressed for when we play sides that aren't so abysmal.

1. Soundly beaten in hard-ball gets again - 41-33. For our supposed 'hard' midfield, that is a real concern. Can't afford this against top 6 sides.

2. Inaccuracy. Hentschel really needs some work on that rubbish run-up, the old goalkicking habits are creeping back in again. Again, can't afford this against top 6 sides.

3. Second quarter lapses. The biggest worry, it has been a constant pattern and it's going to trip us up badly very soon - we can get away with it against the bottom 6, but that's about it. Don't know what the hell is going on, but it's a serious, serious problem. To let Carlton kick 6 of their 9 goals in one quarter while we only kicked 3 is an indictment on the players.

4. Scott Stevens. We have been playing poor sides, so he doesn't have to be exposed so much, but while he provides some reasonable run when in space, he is as weak as a stick and has been muscled out by every opponent he has played on. This is not acceptable, even Torney would be a better bet as a tall defender. Craig's faith in him is, IMHO, misplaced. He has shown nothing with the defensive side of his game.

5. Roo and McGregor carrying injuries (?)...they've been out of it against some average players...a real worry

6. Lairising. A few players seem to take these games at the moment as a bit of a lark. Time Craig gives them a stern warning and maybe one or two are given a benching or a drop to the SANFL for a week.

Thoughts?

I want this team to win the premiership this year, but there's areas to be addressed.

Yep, agree with most of that. Can throw in:
1. Our ruckman need to start taking marks around the ground, in the same way as Cox, Fraser, White do.....no coincidence that they are 3 of the better sides going around. Unfortunately, will not happen with Clarke/Biglands combo.
2. Throw Mattner in the 'carrying injury' list
3. Tempted to leave Roo at FF, will be happy to see Welsh end up with the third or fourth best opposition backman when he returns
4. Must have Porplyzia as the small forward, more of a genuine crumber than Bode.
5. Agree with S. Stevens...as soon as Welsh returns, Kenny to CHB

 

[Leigh Roy]

While I'm not going to get all cocky and say this year is 'ours to f*** up' and what have you, we are showing signs of again bullying the weaker teams and not backing it up against the form teams. If we keep loving the smell of our own farts we'll be susceptible to sides like St Kilda and Sydney, not to mention the fact we play West Coast in WA then Collingwood a week later at AAMI towards the business end of the season, we drop both of those and we jeopardise a top four position.

The Bombers will - again - chuck a wobbly and start throwing haymakers and losing all sorts of discipline if we pull ahead early enough. The younger players will want to be ready for any of that, Essendon's a rabble but they are a dirty rabble.

 

[just maybe]

Is Hentschell the only innacurate one? While I agree our accuracy is poor ( I felt it cost us momentum against the Tigers and caused TW to keep the flood) to use Hentschells name is misleading.

Not the only inaccurate one, but the most obvious with that godawful runup.

You named Hentschell yet you didnt name Thompson?

Yeh I was going to, don't know why I didn't. Burton is another big offender.

 

[Crow_68]

Not the only inaccurate one, but the most obvious with that godawful runup.



Yeh I was going to, don't know why I didn't. Burton is another big offender.

Add Bode into that mix...

 

[- PC -]

Yeh I was going to, don't know why I didn't. Burton is another big offender.

Burton is one of those frustrating players who will drop the ball and fumble then a minute later take the hanger of the century.

With Burton i am prepared for that..Thompson was meant to bring this air of professionalism. I guess i expect too much

 

[Glenno23]

i'm sure that some problems may be "hidden"

but Neil Craig is a realist and he stated that there are still problems that need to be addressed. the 2nd qtr fade outs are one of them.

i have faith in the coaching staff to address our needs. sometimes as a supporter its good to be positive. but not too positive yet!

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

OPTIMISTS VIEW:

Injuries: Perrie, Hart, Bock and hopefully Huddo will all come back in weeks 15-18 and should get a few games under their belt before finals start. Welsh, Edwards and Thorney will all be back in the next few weeks.

Our Win/loss will hopefully be 8-2 after this week. Amazing effort considering our injuries and draw.

PESSIMISTS VIEW:

All the points JM made.

If finals started this week and we went in with the same 22 as yesterday we wouldn't make it past the prelim. final. - best case scenario. Having Skipworth, Stevens and to a lesser extent Bode, Massie, Doughty ALL in our starting 22 at the same time would be a major concern.

Rucks: My major concern. I'm not sure we can win a flag with Clarke and to a lesser extent Biglands getting soundly beaten in the around the ground play.

Injuries: Still not sure if Pez, Bock and Huddo will all come back this year. If we went into the finals with the same tall structure as yesterday we wouldn't go past the prelim. final. Desperately need Bock and Pez back a few weeks before finals to replace the physically challenged Stevens and to assist the badly out of form McGregor.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

3. Second quarter lapses. The biggest worry, it has been a constant pattern and it's going to trip us up badly very soon - we can get away with it against the bottom 6, but that's about it. Don't know what the hell is going on, but it's a serious, serious problem. To let Carlton kick 6 of their 9 goals in one quarter while we only kicked 3 is an indictment on the players.

At times yesterday we really overused the ball. There were a number of times, especially in the 2nd quarter, where we tried to get to cute with the handball when we should have kicked long. The fact Kenny and Roo are out of form/injured could be a major reason for this. We really miss The Pez's strong hands and ground cover.

 

[bigman]

OPTIMISTS VIEW:

Injuries: Perrie, Hart, Bock and hopefully Huddo will all come back in weeks 15-18 and should get a few games under their belt before finals start. Welsh, Edwards and Thorney will all be back in the next few weeks.

Our Win/loss will hopefully be 8-2 after this week. Amazing effort considering our injuries and draw.

PESSIMISTS VIEW:

All the points JM made.

If finals started this week and we went in with the same 22 as yesterday we wouldn't make it past the prelim. final. - best case scenario. Having Skipworth, Stevens and to a lesser extent Bode, Massie, Doughty ALL in our starting 22 at the same time would be a major concern.

Rucks: My major concern. I'm not sure we can win a flag with Clarke and to a lesser extent Biglands getting soundly beaten in the around the ground play.

Injuries: Still not sure if Pez, Bock and Huddo will all come back this year. If we went into the finals with the same tall structure as yesterday we wouldn't go past the prelim. final. Desperately need Bock and Pez back a few weeks before finals to replace the physically challenged Stevens and to assist the badly out of form McGregor.

Springy time to give Dogga some much overdue respect.

 

[- PC -]

OPTIMISTS VIEW:

PESSIMISTS VIEW:

.

REALISTS VIEW

We are doing ok considering the injuries we have had. Some of the younger players have stood up and we have seen some of the list answer some questions( good or bad) . We still have some injuries to players and that is making them perform below par. The concern is the injury is extended and time off the field is needed again.

There are some issues and they need to be addressed...but 8-2 means we have some leeway to address them


*Realist view was used as oppposed to the 2 others

 

[- PC -]

At times yesterday we really overused the ball. There were a number of times, especially in the 2nd quarter, where we tried to get to cute with the handball when we should have kicked long. The fact Kenny and Roo are out of form/injured could be a major reason for this. We really miss The Pez's strong hands and ground cover.

I felt that as well...but on tv the implication was there was nothing further up field...can someone at the game confirm this?

 

[Mad Dog]

I felt that as well...but on tv the implication was there was nothing further up field...can someone at the game confirm this?

Carlton flooded a lot of players back and so quite often our forward options were covered. Although it frustrated the crappola out of me at times - a lot of the back passing was an attempt to open up the FAT side of the ground and find some space.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Springy time to give Dogga some much overdue respect.

Mate you won't get an argument from me. He has increased his aggression at the contest by 200 % this year. IMO he has always had the skills to be a quality player but he needed to lift his intensity. I said earlier in the year that if he was to make it he needed to become a more selfish player and back himself in more. Go long and direct instead of sideways and backwards handballs to more senior players.

The point I was making is that I don't believe we will go far if we have ALL of Stevens, Skippy, Bode, Doughty, Massie, Shirley in the team at the sametime.

 

[just maybe]

Welsh, Edwards and Thorney will all be back in the next few weeks.

T-O-R-N-E-Y

 

[- PC -]

T-O-R-N-E-Y

Maybe he thinks he is a pr1ck

 

[bigman]

Mate you won't get an argument from me. He has increased his aggression at the contest by 200 % this year. IMO he has always had the skills to be a quality player but he needed to lift his intensity. I said earlier in the year that if he was to make it he needed to become a more selfish player and back himself in more. Go long and direct instead of sideways and backwards handballs to more senior players.

The point I was making is that I don't believe we will go far if we have ALL of Stevens, Skippy, Bode, Doughty, Massie, Shirley in the team at the sametime.

Fair call springy!

 

[macca23]

Carlton flooded a lot of players back and so quite often our forward options were covered. Although it frustrated the crappola out of me at times - a lot of the back passing was an attempt to open up the FAT side of the ground and find some space.

You had to be at the game to appreciate just how much Carlton flooded after half time.

For 90% of the last half there was a maximum of 15 pairs of palyers in our forward line and at times the whole 36 were.

It was like trying to pick your way through a field of land mines.

 

[tribey]

You had to be at the game to appreciate just how much Carlton flooded after half time.

For 90% of the last half there was a maximum of 15 pairs of palyers in our forward line and at times the whole 36 were.

It was like trying to pick your way through a field of land mines.

And yet the usual suspects around me were always screaming at players to "kick it!!!", or wildly gesticulating forward when we were going sideways and patiently building up to bust it...

... yet when someone did get trigger happy and kicked long to a pack and we coughed it up, these same people were the loudest moaners and groaners.

Constant stupid criticism all day, it was relentless.

I turned to my mate and said, 'imagine what these people would be like if we were in a Shaw/early-and-late Ayres-type era?'

 

[jmorg1]

I turned to my mate and said, 'imagine what these people would be like if we were in a Shaw/early-and-late Ayres-type era?'

They would throw eggs at their house or flip the bird at the coaches box.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

And yet the usual suspects around me were always screaming at players to "kick it!!!", or wildly gesticulating forward when we were going sideways and patiently building up to bust it...

... yet when someone did get trigger happy and kicked long to a pack and we coughed it up, these same people were the loudest moaners and groaners.

Constant stupid criticism all day, it was relentless.

I turned to my mate and said, 'imagine what these people would be like if we were in a Shaw/early-and-late Ayres-type era?'

Fair enough. IMO we overused the ball in the 2nd term but nothing to slash the wrists over.

 

[just maybe]

And yet the usual suspects around me were always screaming at players to "kick it!!!", or wildly gesticulating forward when we were going sideways and patiently building up to bust it...

... yet when someone did get trigger happy and kicked long to a pack and we coughed it up, these same people were the loudest moaners and groaners.

Constant stupid criticism all day, it was relentless.

I turned to my mate and said, 'imagine what these people would be like if we were in a Shaw/early-and-late Ayres-type era?'

While I understand your gripe, perhaps you should be more accepting and stop being so sanctimonious. Football is a game, its entertainment, and people pay good money to see it. If they want to gripe about how dead boring certain tactics are making the game and yell how they want to see it, that's their prerogative.

Sure, you may be a connoiseur of the finer points of the game, but it wouldn't be surprising if they've been going to the football longer than you, and they have a right to their opinions, even if they're 'uneducated' by your standards.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

OK, we thumped Carlton. It should have been by a lot more, but within that win there were a number of problems carried over from the Richmond game that need to be addressed for when we play sides that aren't so abysmal.

1. Soundly beaten in hard-ball gets again - 41-33. For our supposed 'hard' midfield, that is a real concern. Can't afford this against top 6 sides.

2. Inaccuracy. Hentschel really needs some work on that rubbish run-up, the old goalkicking habits are creeping back in again. Again, can't afford this against top 6 sides.

3. Second quarter lapses. The biggest worry, it has been a constant pattern and it's going to trip us up badly very soon - we can get away with it against the bottom 6, but that's about it. Don't know what the hell is going on, but it's a serious, serious problem. To let Carlton kick 6 of their 9 goals in one quarter while we only kicked 3 is an indictment on the players.

4. Scott Stevens. We have been playing poor sides, so he doesn't have to be exposed so much, but while he provides some reasonable run when in space, he is as weak as a stick and has been muscled out by every opponent he has played on. This is not acceptable, even Torney would be a better bet as a tall defender. Craig's faith in him is, IMHO, misplaced. He has shown nothing with the defensive side of his game.

5. Roo and McGregor carrying injuries (?)...they've been out of it against some average players...a real worry

6. Lairising. A few players seem to take these games at the moment as a bit of a lark. Time Craig gives them a stern warning and maybe one or two are given a benching or a drop to the SANFL for a week.

Thoughts?

I want this team to win the premiership this year, but there's areas to be addressed.

No doubt we have some room for improvement, but what is the point in being at the top of your game in May?

1. I don't believe hard ball-gets are as important when you are dominating the game. Why kill yourself in & under when the opposition keep kicking the ball back to you?

2. I was under the belief we have the highest accuracy in the AFL this year. Kicking style is irrelevant, if it doesn't affect accuracy. Do you think Trent getting a haircut may help?

3. We can't expect to dominate all 4 quarters, but to continually have 2nd quarter fadeouts is a concern.

4. I though Scott Stevens actually played OK yesterday. Given our injuries to KPP's, now is the time to play him for a bit to really find out whether he has got something. Bassett would not have been as effective yestrday if Stevens weren't playing.

5. Given all the long-term injuries, I think we are playing some players like Kenny who would not have otherwise have played. Not ideal.

6. We did liarise at time yesterday, but there is not much between this & some of the great handball passages of play we had through the middle.

 

[Crow-mo]

some people genuinely seem happier when we have real problems, and are losing.

the grief that accompanies a win must be too much.