Biglands

[tinman]

How on earth did this team make it to two prelim finals in a row with such duds playing for us? First Shirley, now Massie and Biglands who all three are consistently in our best 22 but obviously the coach and the selection committee have no idea

I am amazed at the amount of people on here who can't see the positives, only the negatives of most of our players.

I agree. In fact Biglands going down in the prelim final was one of the reasons we lost the game. From that point on Cox murdered us, and was used as a link man across centre with Clarke unable to make a contest.

Biglands has been a very important player for us. Whether that continues into the future who kmows. But all the best to him with his rehab.

 

[betterthanu]

as i remember it cox was easily beating biglands and it was the fact that clarke could no longer rest that the game turned. Even if biglands was in the side, one of M and M would have taken his spot before long IMO.

 

[maccas_no1]

So Marty, what do you propose we do with Ivan Maric and John Meesen in 2008? Play them in the SANFL or trade both of them back to a Victorian club as they would be looking at playing AFL?

Rhett Biglands has been a very good player for the AFC but due to his knee injury his time as a ruckman has now passed him by (by round 1 2008 he will be 30, nearly 31). They should have asked him to retire because he will not come straight back into the side and play as a back up ruckman behind Ben Hudson because we need move forward with Maric and Meesen.

It’s called strategically planning for the future because in the next 24 to 36 months will have to turn over Ricciuto, Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod, Torney, Massie, Biglands and maybe Burton and Hudson (depending on how his knee holds up)

Ben Hart was the first played terminated last season; as harsh as it sounds I see no reason why Rhett Biglands was not used in this culling session as well to ease some of the long term pain we will face.

I have never said dont play Meeson or Maric in the ruck Im all for it, as others have said Biglands can come back as a very handy tall forward something we have lacked for a longtime, what if one of our ruckmen go down with a knee injury???? What if Hudson doesnt come back as well from his knee injury??? Asking Biglands to retire would be an unwise move by the AFC.

Massie is only 25 so we wont be turning him over in the next 36 mths

AFL players these days can easily play if injuries go their way until their mid 30's, they arent a discard at 31.

 

[maccas_no1]

I agree. In fact Biglands going down in the prelim final was one of the reasons we lost the game. From that point on Cox murdered us, and was used as a link man across centre with Clarke unable to make a contest.

Biglands has been a very important player for us. Whether that continues into the future who kmows. But all the best to him with his rehab.

Good post.

 

[Alex99]

Massie is only 25 so we wont be turning him over in the next 36 mths

He is 27 in May and was dropped from the finals side after coming of his best season in the AFL.

 

[tinman]

I have never said dont play Meeson or Maric in the ruck Im all for it, as others have said Biglands can come back as a very handy tall forward something we have lacked for a longtime, what if one of our ruckmen go down with a knee injury???? What if Hudson doesnt come back as well from his knee injury??? Asking Biglands to retire would be an unwise move by the AFC.QUOTE]

Agree. What's this business of thinking we have to select the team over a year in advance anyway?

Sure Meesen and Maric are the future, but let Biglands do the rehab and see how he comes back. He'll still have plenty of footy left in him. He will still be a handy footballer, and looking around the AFL a better than average ruckman.

 

[maccas_no1]

He is 27 in May and was dropped from the finals side after coming of his best season in the AFL.

So effectively still has 5-6 seasons in him, not 36 mths

Dropped from the finals side to allow Burton and Mcleod to play.

 

[maccas_no1]

He is 27 in May and was dropped from the finals side after coming of his best season in the AFL.

Care to answer the rest of my post???

 

[maccas_no1]

I have never said dont play Meeson or Maric in the ruck Im all for it, as others have said Biglands can come back as a very handy tall forward something we have lacked for a longtime, what if one of our ruckmen go down with a knee injury???? What if Hudson doesnt come back as well from his knee injury??? Asking Biglands to retire would be an unwise move by the AFC.QUOTE]

Agree. What's this business of thinking we have to select the team over a year in advance anyway?

Sure Meesen and Maric are the future, but let Biglands do the rehab and see how he comes back. He'll still have plenty of footy left in him. He will still be a handy footballer, and looking around the AFL a better than average ruckman.

Absolutely correct, give the guy a chance, he anit in the 'too hard basket' yet.

Rehn is a prime example of a player who kept coming back from adversity to prove what a champion player he was.

 

[thesouthernend]

His injury is very unfortunate as they all are, at 29 it is unlikely that he will make a huge improvement to your list when he comes back to you. I never rated him when he was with us, but different blokes do different jobs under different coaches, good luck, he will need it.

 

[Alex99]

Absolutely correct, give the guy a chance, he anit in the 'too hard basket' yet.

Rehn is a prime example of a player who kept coming back from adversity to prove what a champion player he was.

Rhett Biglands is not Shaun Rhen but.

 

[Alex99]

Care to answer the rest of my post???

Latter on today i will.

 

[maccas_no1]

Rhett Biglands is not Shaun Rhen but.

We know that but its proof a player can come back and still have a alot to offer.

 

[Vader]

We know that but its proof a player can come back and still have a alot to offer.

Even so, Rehn did not return to his best immediately. It was after almost 12 months of playing, following 12 months out, that he finally got back to his best.

Biglands will be 30 before he plays again. He'll be 31 by the time he gets back to anything like his best. In that time, we will (hopefully) have two giants stationed in our forward line - Sellar & Tippett.

The need for him to play as a tall marking forward will be significantly diminished. The need for him to play as a ruckman will be almost non-existant, if M&M develop as planned and Hudson's knee stands up to the job.

What else is left for him?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Even so, Rehn did not return to his best immediately. It was after almost 12 months of playing, following 12 months out, that he finally got back to his best.

Biglands will be 30 before he plays again. He'll be 31 by the time he gets back to anything like his best. In that time, we will (hopefully) have two giants stationed in our forward line - Sellar & Tippett.

The need for him to play as a tall marking forward will be significantly diminished. The need for him to play as a ruckman will be almost non-existant, if M&M develop as planned and Hudson's knee stands up to the job.

What else is left for him?

Which Knee did Biglands do ...was it his jumping leg because if so it will make the comeback even more difficult.

Biglands is really not a natural forward and as you say in 2 years time Sellar will be the preffered option ....Tippett, well let's see him kick a ball in anger b4 we annoint him as the next saviour (see Gibson).

I agree at 31 it is going to be a hell of a task to come back .......But Maric and Meesen are both on one year contracts and there's no guarantee both will be around next season.

He's needed as a backup "plan B" but depending on how this season pans out he may come to his own conclusion that he's number 4 ranked ruckman in terms of playing and maybe another club might seek a trade for him aka Clark

 

[Alex99]

I have never said dont play Meeson or Maric in the ruck Im all for it, as others have said Biglands can come back as a very handy tall forward something we have lacked for a longtime, what if one of our ruckmen go down with a knee injury???? What if Hudson doesnt come back as well from his knee injury??? Asking Biglands to retire would be an unwise move by the AFC.

Massie is only 25 so we wont be turning him over in the next 36 mths

AFL players these days can easily play if injuries go their way until their mid 30's, they arent a discard at 31.

I am a little bit confused now.

Are we a premiership contender or not?

On one hand you are suggesting that last season we lost our golden chance to win a premiership with this group of players (I am in agreement somewhat) and this year we are going to struggle to make the top 4 and potentially slip down the ladder. Then on the other hand you are in agreement that it is a good idea to keep players that are basically not going to make us a better side. With all due respect to Rhett Biglands and Kris Massie they are not going to make us a better side (I am not saying they are bad players but they are not good enough to push us over the edge to become a premiership side). Kris Massie was dropped from last years final side after his best season in the AFL and Rhett Biglands injury his knee so he is not any use anyway.

Ivan Maric, John Meesen, James Sellar and Kurt Tippett are the future ruckman and key forwards for the AFC. If we have to rely on Rhett Biglands to come back from a knee injury and fill in as a back up ruckman or key forward we are going backwards. If season 2007 isn’t very productive and we have gone backwards then that is more evidence that we should be pushing the kids thought because (and you have made it know that last year was our last chance) we have to then start to rebuild.

If we are a legitimate premiership contender (and I believe we are) this year; I have no problem keeping a few extra veteran players that know the system and understand what it takes to win games in pressure situations. Biglands is gone for 2007 (knee injury) and by 2008 we should be looking towards the future anyway. Kris Massie is in the same boat; keep him on the list this year as insurance for injuries and by 2008 we should be looking towards the future.

If we do not win the premiership this year (2007) then we should be looking at implementing a strategy to slowly replace a few of the ageing stars so by 2009 we can make an attempt at the finals and by 2010 we can become a top 4 side again. By the beginning of 2010 (36 months) we will not have Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod, Torney, Massie, Biglands and maybe possibly Burton and Hudson.

We need to get 50 – 60 games into Maric, Meesen, Pheffer, Douglas, Knights, Porplyzia, Van Berlo (he is a long way down this track), Sellar, Tippett and possibly Vince, Mackay before we can look at the long term success.

 

[Alex99]

I have never said dont play Meeson or Maric in the ruck Im all for it.

So now we are going to have 4 ruckmen in the same side?

 

[Alex99]

He's needed as a backup "plan B" but depending on how this season pans out he may come to his own conclusion that he's number 4 ranked ruckman in terms of playing and maybe another club might seek a trade for him aka Clark

No, that's hopefully where Johnathon Griffin comes into play.

 

[maccas_no1]

Scott, we are not a premiership contender this year and wont be for at least for the next three years, the AFC had its chance in 2005 and 2006, injuries, form slumps or other beknown factors got in the way, 2007 is the beginning of the rebuild, while we have wise heads in the likes of Goodwin, Ricciuto, Mcleod, Edwards and some guns in Rutten, Johncock, Bock, Van Berlo we will not beat good quality, hard running clubs like West Coast, Western Bulldogs.

The AFC is on the back foot already in 2007 with season ending knee injuries to one of our best and most reliable forwards in Hentschel, has left a gapping hole and a major resructure think in an already rubbish forwardline. That will either involve move Bock forward and putting McGregor at CFB, leaving Riccuito up forward, but we get anymore injuries to players who do tend to get inujuried alot such as Welsh, Perrie or Burton and our forward stocks are even worse.

My other area of concern is the ruck, Clarke has left and Biglands is out injuried, our two best ruckmen, we are now looking at Hudson who is coming back after 18 mths out of the game from a major knee injury, he was a gun before the knee injury, how well will he come back from it??? Will his confidence be effected??? Will he re-injure it???? We then have Maric and Meeson both are young but it presents a good opportunity to show what they have got, but what if they havent got it??? What if they have a bad day??? How will they go against experienced ruckmen such as Cox or Darcy????

Biglands IMO is a great asset to the AFC as in 2008 he can either play as a tall forward which we are crying out for, and I think he could hold down the position well or if one of our other ruckmen go down or are having a bad day, he can step in and fill the role also.

Massie, I simply dont understand what you have against him He has come along great and despite being dropped for the PF in place of Burton and Mcleod, he offers alot in our defensive 50 and around the middle, there are players such as Perrie, Welsh, McGregor who are playing for their careers in 2007 not Massie, I would take Massie over any of those players in a heart beat, simply because he offers alot more than any of those players do.

The AFC is in a min rebuild and it started at the end of 2006 with Hart and Clarke both gone, but never think that Biglands or Massie will hold back a brighter future for the AFC.

 

[Alex99]

Scott, we are not a premiership contender this year and wont be for at least for the next three years, the AFC had its chance in 2005 and 2006, injuries, form slumps or other beknown factors got in the way, 2007 is the beginning of the rebuild, while we have wise heads in the likes of Goodwin, Ricciuto, Mcleod, Edwards and some guns in Rutten, Johncock, Bock, Van Berlo we will not beat good quality, hard running clubs like West Coast, Western Bulldogs.

Agree - No problem with that.

The AFC is on the back foot already in 2007 with season ending knee injuries to one of our best and most reliable forwards in Hentschel, has left a gapping hole and a major resructure think in an already rubbish forwardline. That will either involve move Bock forward and putting McGregor at CFB, leaving Riccuito up forward, but we get anymore injuries to players who do tend to get inujuried alot such as Welsh, Perrie or Burton and our forward stocks are even worse.

Same - no problem.

My other area of concern is the ruck, Clarke has left and Biglands is out injuried, our two best ruckmen, we are now looking at Hudson who is coming back after 18 mths out of the game from a major knee injury, he was a gun before the knee injury, how well will he come back from it??? Will his confidence be effected??? Will he re-injure it???? We then have Maric and Meeson both are young but it presents a good opportunity to show what they have got, but what if they havent got it??? What if they have a bad day??? How will they go against experienced ruckmen such as Cox or Darcy????

John Meesen and Ivan Maric have a good 10 – 12 years left, Biglands days are over as an AFL ruckman. We can not go backwards and slow the progress of Meesen and Maric in 2008. Regardless how they perform in 2007.

Biglands IMO is a great asset to the AFC as in 2008 he can either play as a tall forward which we are crying out for, and I think he could hold down the position well or if one of our other ruckmen go down or are having a bad day, he can step in and fill the role also.

Like it or not, we will not win a premiership with Rhett Biglands as a key forward. (Perrie, K Mac and Welsh are a different story but this is about Biglands)

Massie, I simply dont understand what you have against him He has come along great and despite being dropped for the PF in place of Burton and Mcleod, he offers alot in our defensive 50 and around the middle, there are players such as Perrie, Welsh, McGregor who are playing for their careers in 2007 not Massie, I would take Massie over any of those players in a heart beat, simply because he offers alot more than any of those players do.

I have nothing at all against him but unfortunately his AFL days have almost pasted him by. Chris Knights, Richard Douglas, Darren Pheffer and Nathan Van Berlo have to be given an opportunity to play before Kris Massie, and after they get 30 odd games into them will add more to the team. We need to get some games into the kids and if that means at the expense of Kris Massie; so be it.

The AFC is in a min rebuild and it started at the end of 2006 with Hart and Clarke both gone, but never think that Biglands or Massie will hold back a brighter future for the AFC.

Unless we somehow win the premiership this year, nether will be in our next premiership side, so let’s get some player in the squad who might be.

 

[Crow Envy]

Macca you are contradicting yourself, you say we arent going to win a flag for a minimum 3 years. Then you call for a 30 yr old ruckman coming off a knee to be converted into a forward? What would that achieve? Based on what you said we arent going to win the flag anyway, so whats the point?
And I think you must have rose coloured glasses on when it comes to Biglands, when in comparison to AFL ruckmen he would have to be in the bottom 10% for contested marks, so how all of sudden is he going to be a key marking forward with a backman hanging onto him week in week out.

This thread is going no where as the same argument keeps getting repeated.

 

[Drummond]

Scott, we are not a premiership contender this year and wont be for at least for the next three years, the AFC had its chance in 2005 and 2006, injuries, form slumps or other beknown factors got in the way, 2007 is the beginning of the rebuild, while we have wise heads in the likes of Goodwin, Ricciuto, Mcleod, Edwards and some guns in Rutten, Johncock, Bock, Van Berlo we will not beat good quality, hard running clubs like West Coast, Western Bulldogs.

The AFC is on the back foot already in 2007 with season ending knee injuries to one of our best and most reliable forwards in Hentschel, has left a gapping hole and a major resructure think in an already rubbish forwardline. That will either involve move Bock forward and putting McGregor at CFB, leaving Riccuito up forward, but we get anymore injuries to players who do tend to get inujuried alot such as Welsh, Perrie or Burton and our forward stocks are even worse.

My other area of concern is the ruck, Clarke has left and Biglands is out injuried, our two best ruckmen, we are now looking at Hudson who is coming back after 18 mths out of the game from a major knee injury, he was a gun before the knee injury, how well will he come back from it??? Will his confidence be effected??? Will he re-injure it???? We then have Maric and Meeson both are young but it presents a good opportunity to show what they have got, but what if they havent got it??? What if they have a bad day??? How will they go against experienced ruckmen such as Cox or Darcy????

Biglands IMO is a great asset to the AFC as in 2008 he can either play as a tall forward which we are crying out for, and I think he could hold down the position well or if one of our other ruckmen go down or are having a bad day, he can step in and fill the role also.

The AFC is in a min rebuild and it started at the end of 2006 with Hart and Clarke both gone, but never think that Biglands or Massie will hold back a brighter future for the AFC.

Oh what a load of rubbish.

Biglands is/was one of the worst ruckman in the competition. He barely wins a tap; his disposal is shocking and his decision making cringe worthy. While Rhett going down is a terrible thing for his career, it is not a negative for the AFC. We have two quality young prospects that have spent the last 24 months playing with their SANFL sides and preparing themselves for the big stage. I find it odd how you say, “What if they haven’t go it?”. Well you could say the same thing for every single unproven young player in the AFL. What if Gibbs doesn’t have it? And when you say “What if they have a bad day” really doesn’t bother me at all. Every ruckman has bad days, and young inexperienced ruckman are bound to have plenty. However the only way they will improve is to give them opportunities against the best, they will fail from time to time but it’s all part of the learning curve. The Crows released Matthew Clarke because they obviously have faith in Meesen and Maric, and I completely agree with their decision.

I honestly can’t see why we wouldn’t be a strong contender for the premiership this year. Of our best 22 last year we’ve lost Clarke, who will be replaced by Hudson and Hentschel who is undoubtedly a big loss but McGregor/Welsh and a fit Ricciuto will have to cover his production. There will be improvement from youngsters Van Berlo, Douglas, Porplyzia and I think Thompson, Reilly, Bock and Mattner are ready to step up to another level.

 

[macca23]

Oh what a load of rubbish.

Biglands is/was one of the worst ruckman in the competition. He barely wins a tap; his disposal is shocking and his decision making cringe worthy. While Rhett going down is a terrible thing for his career, it is not a negative for the AFC. We have two quality young prospects that have spent the last 24 months playing with their SANFL sides and preparing themselves for the big stage. I find it odd how you say, “What if they haven’t go it?”. Well you could say the same thing for every single unproven young player in the AFL. What if Gibbs doesn’t have it? And when you say “What if they have a bad day” really doesn’t bother me at all. Every ruckman has bad days, and young inexperienced ruckman are bound to have plenty. However the only way they will improve is to give them opportunities against the best, they will fail from time to time but it’s all part of the learning curve. The Crows released Matthew Clarke because they obviously have faith in Meesen and Maric, and I completely agree with their decision.

I honestly can’t see why we wouldn’t be a strong contender for the premiership this year. Of our best 22 last year we’ve lost Clarke, who will be replaced by Hudson and Hentschel who is undoubtedly a big loss but McGregor/Welsh and a fit Ricciuto will have to cover his production. There will be improvement from youngsters Van Berlo, Douglas, Porplyzia and I think Thompson, Reilly, Bock and Mattner are ready to step up to another level.

Very unfair on a ruckman who has averaged 15 hit-outs per game in his 134 games, considering that normally he spends a maximum of half a game on the ground each game.

Several sides would have liked to have Biglands in their side. St Kilda, Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon and the Bulldogs just to name some.

Sadly for Biglands, this injury has occurred at a critical stage of his career. He is contracted until the end of this year only, by which time he will be 30, and if Maric Meesen and Griffin all blossom and sign on for longer, his AFL career might well be over.

While I agree with your post overall, Drummond, I can't see the necessity to slag an injured servant of the club who has been a consistent contributor for several years just to emphasize your point.

 

[Alex99]

Very unfair on a ruckman who has averaged 15 hit-outs per game in his 134 games, considering that normally he spends a maximum of half a game on the ground each game.

Several sides would have liked to have Biglands in their side. St Kilda, Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon and the Bulldogs just to name some.

Sadly for Biglands, this injury has occurred at a critical stage of his career. He is contracted until the end of this year only, by which time he will be 30, and if Maric Meesen and Gibson all blossom and sign on for longer, his AFL career might well be over.

While I agree with your post overall, Drummond, I can't see the necessity to slag an injured servant of the club who has been a consistent contributor for several years just to emphasize your point.

Second chance? J. Griffin maybe.

 

[macca23]

Second chance? J. Griffin maybe.

Mental abberation - Griffin of course.

What's with the , Mr Perfection??