Bill Shorten - how long?

[TimmeT]

Funny how the Libs complain about poorest of the poor getting a few hundred a week to survive, yet love it when a millionaire gets 10 times more then the dole as a tax deduction when he pays no tax

THere is the mighty trojan horse being bought out once again by claiming franking credit offsets are only for millionaires.
Trouble is though that there is a significant proportion who aren't millionaires, who did not have superannuation simply because it wasn't operating when they were working and get no more (or less) now than those who have superannuation and are a generation younger. Yet right on cue clear as day we have Labor fans coming up with the millionaire furphy.

 

[JackOutback]

How delusional do you have to be to think that the rich are rich because they're smarter and worked harder?

I don’t doubt that millionaires work hard but it’s easier to work ‘hard’ when we’re talking white collar work and not digging ditches. Even easier when you get a leg up into the business from family and can easily see the fruits that await.

Most millionaires and billionaires got a head start. There are wealthy self-made people but rarely in that echelon.

 

[Kram]

I don’t doubt that millionaires work hard but it’s easier to work ‘hard’ when we’re talking white collar work and not digging ditches.

Manual work like digging a ditch is a fair bit of yakka and boring as hell, but there's also zero thinking, pressure or stress involved involved with either.

 

[pjcrows]

"If you're angry at someone lower on the economic ladder than you, it's a pretty good bet that you're being manipulated by someone higher on the economic ladder than you"

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Or envy

??

Envy decides wealth?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

That is very lazy

Sure there is the odd flog that does bugger all that just gets everything gifted by their parents but most people I know that are wealthy are very hard workers.

How delusional do you have to be to think that the rich are rich because they're smarter and worked harder?

The research is unequivocal. Although Australia is still one of the most upwardly-mobile countries in the world (meaning, if you’re born poor, you have a better chance of growing rich in your lifetime than in most other countries) that positive is countered by the unfortunate fact that still the most powerful determinant of wealth in adulthood in Australia, is your parents’ postcode when you were born.

 

[Power Raid]

THere is the mighty trojan horse being bought out once again by claiming franking credit offsets are only for millionaires.
Trouble is though that there is a significant proportion who aren't millionaires, who did not have superannuation simply because it wasn't operating when they were working and get no more (or less) now than those who have superannuation and are a generation younger. Yet right on cue clear as day we have Labor fans coming up with the millionaire furphy.

Sadly people confuse the need for wealth taxes with income tax.

As a result they overlook the fact the high income earners can still maximise franking credits where the poor and ordinary a penalised under labor.

Labor stands for the big end of town and is self served by creating an us vs them mentality and class system

 

[Crankyhawk]

Indeed even Bill & the sellout of the workers to the likes of Cleanevent*, or cash for influence courtesy of the brother of Labor front bench would be in Brendan O'Connor, ie Michael, one time squeeze of Ms Gillard, CFMEU powerbroker doling out members contributions.

Be frank, you'd be a dill to claim its just the other mob, they are both in it up to their necks. Power can corrupt, even does corrupt some.

*https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...deal-was-not-a-good-look-20151019-gkcd0t.html
Julianne Page worked as a finance manager at Spotless Cleaning in 2006 and its new owner Cleanevent in 2010 when a new pay deal was struck, extending 2006 pay rates to workers, which were well below 2010 modern award rates.

When was Cleanevent sold, monetising the underpayment deal for the original owners.

Never said the other mob aren’t guilty; was going for recent events.

 

[Power Raid]

Or are born to parents in the more salubrious postcodes?

That, after all, is still the single most powerful factor in deciding wealth in adulthood in Australia.

With Labor’s class system taxation, get used to it.

They have taken away the opportunity to invest in long term growth assets that have the ability to deliver massive returns. This includes backing one’s self.

For those born into ordinary families working for the man, putting your savings into big super and dependant on future governments not stealing from you.

Meanwhile the rich can use franking credits, continue to negative gear, pay 0% CGT and only question why the poor and ordinary voted for this outcome!

 

[GreyCrow]

THere is the mighty trojan horse being bought out once again by claiming franking credit offsets are only for millionaires.
Trouble is though that there is a significant proportion who aren't millionaires, who did not have superannuation simply because it wasn't operating when they were working and get no more (or less) now than those who have superannuation and are a generation younger. Yet right on cue clear as day we have Labor fans coming up with the millionaire furphy.

If there were a significant portion then it wouldnt be any partys policy. Its lazy thinking to assume otherwise

Labor have done the numbers and they must feel there isnt going to be any major voting backlash

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

With Labor’s class system taxation, get used to it.

They have taken away the opportunity to invest in long term growth assets that have the ability to deliver massive returns. This includes backing one’s self.

For those born into ordinary families working for the man, putting your savings into big super and dependant on future governments not stealing from you.

Meanwhile the rich can use franking credits, continue to negative gear, pay 0% CGT and only question why the poor and ordinary voted for this outcome!

Yes you've expounded on your theory of the consequences of Labor's proposals on here many times.

Not many agree with your intepretation. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Power Raid]

Yes you've expounded on your theory of the consequences of Labor's proposals on here many times.

Not many agree with your intepretation. We'll agree to disagree.

No need to agree to disagree

You free to explain your understanding and explain why I’m wrong.


La la la I’m not listening isn’t a mature debate response

 

[Power Raid]

Yes you've expounded on your theory of the consequences of Labor's proposals on here many times.

Not many agree with your intepretation. We'll agree to disagree.

Oh and please consider the 1980s where Labor is bringing us back to.

It’s not theory if history has demonstrated it

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

No need to agree to disagree

You free to explain your understanding and explain why I’m wrong.


La la la I’m not listening isn’t a mature debate response

Nothing la la la about it. We went through this at some length a few months back. I disagreed then. No intention of revisiting.

 

[JackOutback]

No need to agree to disagree

You free to explain your understanding and explain why I’m wrong.


La la la I’m not listening isn’t a mature debate response

People have refuted your position in negative gearing and franking credits several times. You just don’t acknowledge it. You’re determined to run this narrative that it’s Labor that’s secretly involved in a class war. It’s tosh.

 

[Pessimistic]

THere is the mighty trojan horse being bought out once again by claiming franking credit offsets are only for millionaires.
Trouble is though that there is a significant proportion who aren't millionaires, who did not have superannuation simply because it wasn't operating when they were working and get no more (or less) now than those who have superannuation and are a generation younger. Yet right on cue clear as day we have Labor fans coming up with the millionaire furphy.

The lions share of super benefits, which was meant to help people fund retirement, is going to those already really rich just gaming the system
Collateral damage. Blame the rorters

 

[Bestbird]

The lions share of super benefits, which was meant to help people fund retirement, is going to those already really rich just gaming the system
Collateral damage. Blame the rorters

Pretty much. Working in a large companies payroll the Salary Sacrifice amounts are highly skewered towards the top 30 percent of employees pay scale wise

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

People have refuted your position in negative gearing and franking credits several times. You just don’t acknowledge it. You’re determined to run this narrative that it’s Labor that’s secretly involved in a class war. It’s tosh.

It would be amazing if Labor were involved in a secret class war against the wealthy, sadly this is not the case.

 

[Kram]

The research is unequivocal. Although Australia is still one of the most upwardly-mobile countries in the world (meaning, if you’re born poor, you have a better chance of growing rich in your lifetime than in most other countries) that positive is countered by the unfortunate fact that still the most powerful determinant of wealth in adulthood in Australia, is your parents’ postcode when you were born.

Thing is in Australia if someone is smart and hard working enough to be say a dentist or a mining engineer and earn a heap of money to make themselves fairly wealthy from scratch, even if they are born into a poor family what is exactly stopping them? It's not like America where there is no Austudy payments or HECS system.

 

[Sainteric]

The lions share of super benefits, which was meant to help people fund retirement, is going to those already really rich just gaming the system
Collateral damage. Blame the rorters

So crucify all? It could of been handled in a multitude of way to stop the gaming. I don't think Bowens that stupid, they mean it.

 

[Sainteric]

People have refuted your position in negative gearing and franking credits several times. You just don’t acknowledge it. You’re determined to run this narrative that it’s Labor that’s secretly involved in a class war. It’s tosh.

They could of fixed the tax avoidance in super without hitting everyone. They chose class warfare instead.

 

[Sainteric]

Bill shortens image is being removed from alot of Labor advertising as he goes from super unpopular to toxic.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Class Warfare = The Mega rich paying their fair share

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Bill shortens image is being removed from alot of Labor advertising as he goes from super unpopular to toxic.

While the Liberals remove the word Liberals from their campaign material...now that is the proper definition of Toxic

 

[Gough]

When Rudd was elected the narrative was that the so called middle class welfare that had proliferated under Howard had to be wound back. Then the GFC hit and all will to do this was lost. Now any attempt to scale it back is met with shrill cries of class warfare.