Blow up the Pokies

[Scodog10]

We should take a moral stance on this and manage our finances without that revenue accordingly.

I get that view I just don't think it's as simple as that anymore with the piss poor work of our football department over the past few years. Five years ago when we were the benchmark club I could have supported us weening ourselves off the pokies teat, but now would be extremely poor timing.

Without the pokies we'd become the rich kid that loses their inheritance. Yes it's for the greater good, but unfortunately it's best to wait until we can better control the situation. A cleanout of the football department would no doubt help us if we chose to go in another direction.

I'm also at pains to stress I'm anti pokies, but I'm very much pro Collingwood success and a move in 2016-2017 would not help Collingwood's ability to succeed.

 

[Quicky]

I get that view I just don't think it's as simple as that anymore with the piss poor work of our football department over the past few years. Five years ago when we were the benchmark club I could have supported us weening ourselves off the pokies teat, but now would be extremely poor timing.

Without the pokies we'd become the rich kid that loses their inheritance. Yes it's for the greater good, but unfortunately it's best to wait until we can better control the situation. A cleanout of the football department would no doubt help us if we chose to go in another direction.

I'm also at pains to stress I'm anti pokies, but I'm very much pro Collingwood success and a move in 2016-2017 would not help Collingwood's ability to succeed.

It needs to be controlled, but I don't see why that can't happen quickly. I think we need to remove ourselves from something that causes so much pain.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Interesting area of discussion.
Incredible competing interests.

Liberties v responsibility.
Free will v addiction.
Club finances v broader responsibilities.
Trusting people v nannying people

Etc c etc

Not simple

 

[Bigwayno]

Its an absolute disgrace that we have pokies.

 

[MyManLynch]

I drink too many coffees at the VFL games.
Plus the queue time is not good for my patience.

 

[jmac70]

Collingwood pays lip service to the idea of community. We do it incredibly poorly.

Lip service?

The Collingwood Foundation makes a significant difference to the lives of many people. As a member I am immensely proud of the work our club does in the community. Like many people I would prefer not to rely on pokie revenue and hope that in time we can reduce our reliance on it. I believe this point was made by Ed at the last members forum.

 

[Maggie5]

Does it piss anyone else off that Collingwood, who talk about community and it's working class roots, are one of the biggest pokie operators in the country?

North cope without them, so don't tell me that we, with our massive supporter base and deal at the G rather than Etihad, couldn't do it.

Yes and at the same time all those gambling ads.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Yes and at the same time all those gambling ads.

Tim Costello has an interesting take on it.
He doesn't advocate banning pokies, just restricting certain things like:
* Maximum Bets
* Advertising
* The Flashing Lights and Ringing Bells (psychological entrapment)
* (Hard Limits) Daily Maximum Losses

 

[Maggie5]

Tim Costello has an interesting take on it.
He doesn't advocate banning pokies, just restricting certain things like:
* Maximum Bets
* Advertising
* The Flashing Lights and Ringing Bells (psychological entrapment)
* (Hard Limits) Daily Maximum Losses

Saw a doco on this really interesting especially the lights and music on machine. Real science to it.

The strange part is that local pokies have a max of $5.00? per spin but unlimited at casinos.

The gov. also have made another change where you can only take out $200 at ATM's at venues, not sure whether it is per visit or at a time though.

 

[Quicky]

Lip service?

The Collingwood Foundation makes a significant difference to the lives of many people. As a member I am immensely proud of the work our club does in the community. Like many people I would prefer not to rely on pokie revenue and hope that in time we can reduce our reliance on it. I believe this point was made by Ed at the last members forum.

Those initiatives are fantastic. I also thought it was a really great gesture to install lights and employ security guards around the Westpac centre so that there was a safe place for people particularly women to exercise.

I'm talking more broadly than this. As a club we are not particularly good at including the broader supporter base, keeping it us at arms length. I think we need to and can improve on this. It used to be our greatest strength.

 

[deck]

No. They are a legal business to run so I don't know why football clubs cop a hard time for running them. If the Football clubs all sold them off then someone else would still run them and nothing would have changed except money going in to a different pocket.

Had to laugh at the Herald-Sun last week having a crack at Collingwood for having pokies. The Herald-Sun itself runs gambling ads masquerading as a sports articles on a regular basis.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Great idea, getting rid of supply always gets rid of demand.

 

[jmac70]

Those initiatives are fantastic. I also thought it was a really great gesture to install lights and employ security guards around the Westpac centre so that there was a safe place for people particularly women to exercise.

I'm talking more broadly than this. As a club we are not particularly good at including the broader supporter base, keeping it us at arms length. I think we need to and can improve on this. It used to be our greatest strength.

I agree, and would like to see more supporter events that don't involve $20 hamburgers!

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Top song

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Great idea, getting rid of supply always gets rid of demand.

Sometimes supply does create demand. Lots of other gambling opportunities, but the pokies are a particularly efficient way of fleecing those who are vulnerable.

 

[Gungadin]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/woolworths-pokies-target-lowearners-20120929-26sem.html
Yes, the "Fresh Food People"
Pokies don't exist in WA. The only place you can play them, is at the casino. The pubs and clubs would love them, but neither sides of politics have ever wanted them. I'm no fan of them personally. Always makes me laugh on the rare occasion I go to the casino, seeing the blue rinse brigade, spending their hard earned pension on the slots.

 

[Pie eyed]

Does it piss anyone else off that Collingwood, who talk about community and it's working class roots, are one of the biggest pokie operators in the country?

North cope without them, so don't tell me that we, with our massive supporter base and deal at the G rather than Etihad, couldn't do it.

Collingwood should get rid of the pokies asap.
Worse than drugs.

 

[Quicky]

Great idea, getting rid of supply always gets rid of demand.

It won't get rid of demand. It won't make any difference to solving the problem at all. But at least we won't be associating ourselves with something that causes a lot of misery to a lot of people.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Free will.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Does it piss anyone else off that Collingwood, who talk about community and it's working class roots, are one of the biggest pokie operators in the country?

North cope without them, so don't tell me that we, with our massive supporter base and deal at the G rather than Etihad, couldn't do it.

It was discussed at last off-season's member's forum ...

... I got the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the club are seeking to phase them out. The club does feel that they need alternate revenue streams to replace them.

 

[ThexderX]

Keep the pokies but remove those annoying two red lights and that dodgy p.a.

 

[Demonalke]

Keep the pokies but remove those annoying two red lights and that dodgy p.a.

It's strange that you're here again, here again.

 

[Babylove]

It was discussed at last off-season's member's forum ...

... I got the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the club are seeking to phase them out. The club does feel that they need alternate revenue streams to replace them.

I'm sure I recall Pert at the last AGM talking about us phasing them out too, but trying to do it so that it doesn't negatively effect the financial position of the club.

Can I just say too, as someone who has had family members with addictions (albeit a substance addiction not a gambling one) that we cannot absolve addicts themselves of responsibility for their addictions. Whilst I am supportive of the club exiting that industry, a gambling addict has to take responsibility for their addiction just as an alcoholic does. Not everyone who plays a pokie machine is going to become a gambling addict just as not everyone who drinks a beer will become an alcoholic. In fact most will partake in their chosen vice in moderation for a bit of fun and it will never go any further. For a few though it was will become a problem. And whilst Collingwood can assist this issue by removing pokies from it's business, it will not solve the problem because as long as any form of gambling exists (which can include but is not limited too betting agencies, casinos, scratchies, lotto tickets, office sweep and bookies) then there are ways for people to become gambling addicts, and ways for addicts to continue their destructive behaviour.

We need to be careful not to focus so closely on the pokie machine issue that we loose sight of the fact that pokie machines are a small part of a far bigger issue.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Can I just say too, as someone who has had family members with addictions (albeit a substance addiction not a gambling one) that we cannot absolve addicts themselves of responsibility for their addictions. Whilst I am supportive of the club exiting that industry, a gambling addict has to take responsibility for their addiction just as an alcoholic does. Not everyone who plays a pokie machine is going to become a gambling addict just as not everyone who drinks a beer will become an alcoholic. In fact most will partake in their chosen vice in moderation for a bit of fun and it will never go any further. For a few though it was will become a problem. And whilst Collingwood can assist this issue by removing pokies from it's business, it will not solve the problem because as long as any form of gambling exists (which can include but is not limited too betting agencies, casinos, scratchies, lotto tickets, office sweep and bookies) then there are ways for people to become gambling addicts, and ways for addicts to continue their destructive behaviour.

We need to be careful not to focus so closely on the pokie machine issue that we loose sight of the fact that pokie machines are a small part of a far bigger issue.

All good points.

However, I do think the pokies are particularly evil.

At least if somebody goes to the horse track they're getting some fresh air, and their opportunities to burn cash are limited by the number of races on the card. At least casino/horses can provide some human interaction. At least the ability to splurge on lottery tickets is limited to once or twice a week. At least with footy betting you might get a story and some bragging points with mates. At least with cards you're applying some skill.

But the pokies offer nothing. There's no skill applied. No social interaction. No enrichment. No sunlight. Watch somebody play the pokies - their brain is in a suspended state of stupor. If you saw somebody on the street with the vacant expression of a pokies player you'll assume they're drugged.

 

[Babylove]

All good points.

However, I do think the pokies are particularly evil.

At least if somebody goes to the horse track they're getting some fresh air, and their opportunities to burn cash are limited by the number of races on the card. At least casino/horses can provide some human interaction. At least the ability to splurge on lottery tickets is limited to once or twice a week. At least with footy betting you might get a story and some bragging points with mates. At least with cards you're applying some skill.

But the pokies offer nothing. There's no skill applied. No social interaction. No enrichment. No sunlight. Watch somebody play the pokies - their brain is in a suspended state of stupor. If you saw somebody on the street with the vacant expression of a pokies player you'll assume they're drugged.

Absolutely pokies are bad. People can loose a lot of money very quickly with them (when I turned 18 many years ago I went to a pub and watched someone blow a couple of hundred dollars in a few minutes).

I just worry that the argument regarding pokies seems to absolve gambling addicts of responsibility for their addictions, when (and I don't mean to sound harsh) it was their choices that led them to the situation that they are in. I have a family member who is an alcoholic who has been sober for more than two decades and they achieved that largely by taking responsibility and making a choice (I'm not saying it was easy, but these two factors where key to them being successful). I have no problem reducing the number of pokies to reduce the risk as I don't use them (they are far too boring to hold any interest too me) but then I would have the same attitude if it where about alcohol availability because I don't drink. But gambling addicts still need to be held responsible for their own addictions, and they need to take responsibility for them if they want to overcome them.