Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Fair enough. But you cant just write his successes as a development coach off . Richmond, GWS and even hawthorn (burgogne) have all benefited. As a mentor and overseeing development , he could be very valuable.

I agree with that.

Just wondering why the Tigers were a mess when he was there. Board challenges, blame shifting, supporters revolting (don't we know it). Williams leave and suddenly the whole club is unified and they win a flag off that spirit.

 

[therubbernub]

Yeah, Tigers supporters seem to think that wasn't a coincidence.

Development, as we know takes a long time- not 6 months. I am not sure we could lay the success of the tigers list development at the foot of his replacement. There may very well have been friction between Dimma and Williams and Williams was sacked because of this rather than incompetence.
Williams is not a particularly humble sort of guy, and when the pressure was on Hardwick end of 2016, I suspect that Williams was not terribly supportive.
I get that he is not particularly likeable looking at his public persona- but the players must really respond to him in a development role, for him to have had the success he has had.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Development, as we know takes a long time- not 6 months. I am not sure we could lay the success of the tigers list development at the foot of his replacement. There may very well have been friction between Dimma and Williams and Williams was sacked because of this rather than incompetence.
Williams is not a particularly humble sort of guy, and when the pressure was on Hardwick end of 2016, I suspect that Williams was not terribly supportive.
I get that he is not particularly likeable looking at his public persona- but the players must really respond to him in a development role, for him to have had the success he has had.

As above, I agree.

For the Tigers though, it seems to be a lot about recruiting to a game plan, gym work, and fanatical desire. If Williams affected the harmony of the place, it's not something we want as unity is all we have going for us right now.

 

[edgie]

As above, I agree.

For the Tigers though, it seems to be a lot about recruiting to a game plan, gym work, and fanatical desire. If Williams affected the harmony of the place, it's not something we want as unity is all we have going for us right now.

Texto del enlace

Tigers gameplan and finals choke in 2015 was awfully reminiscent of early 2000's Port. It's not a coincidence things straightened up when he left.

Sent from mTalk

 

[therubbernub]

I agree with that.

Just wondering why the Tigers were a mess when he was there. Board challenges, blame shifting, supporters revolting (don't we know it). Williams leave and suddenly the whole club is unified and they win a flag off that spirit.

Dimma has publicly stated that he changed the way he coached after 2016, so no doubt there was a complete , honest inhouse analysis of everyone including Hardwick. Perhaps Williams was blamed... in any case they needed to shake things up .
What we forget in the tigers is that they had some good form in the previous years- their best was as good as anyones, but they were inconsistent. With some luck they could have done substantially better. the signs were there much earlier of what was to come

2015: Lost 4 of their first 6 games, then only lost 3 of the next 16 games. They were the form team going into the finals . But bundled out in the elimination final by the Roos- whothey had beaten easily the week before.

2014: Lost 10 of their first 14 games, then didnt lose another game until the elimination final . Again they were the form team going into the finals
2013 : Had 15 wins for the year and lost to us in the elimination final.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Dimma has publicly stated that he changed the way he coached after 2016, so no doubt there was a complete , honest inhouse analysis of everyone including Hardwick. Perhaps Williams was blamed... in any case they needed to shake things up .
What we forget in the tigers is that they had some good form in the previous years- their best was as good as anyones, but they were inconsistent. With some luck they could have done substantially better. the signs were there much earlier of what was to come

2015: Lost 4 of their first 6 games, then only lost 3 of the next 16 games. They were the form team going into the finals . But bundled out in the elimination final by the Roos- whothey had beaten easily the week before.

2014: Lost 10 of their first 14 games, then didnt lose another game until the elimination final . Again they were the form team going into the finals
2013 : Had 15 wins for the year and lost to us in the elimination final.

Still, they didn't appear to have the unity they did last year. They have really been talking up their love for each other.

 

[therubbernub]

As above, I agree.

For the Tigers though, it seems to be a lot about recruiting to a game plan, gym work, and fanatical desire. If Williams affected the harmony of the place, it's not something we want as unity is all we have going for us right now.

I agree , if it was Williams on his own causing the destabilisation , we dont want. It may have been a combination of a lot of things and he was merely a scape-goat. I have no knowledge of what went on. All I know, is that if known facts matter, that he was involved in some amazing development of some elite players. Its worth having a look and an interview.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I agree with that.

Just wondering why the Tigers were a mess when he was there. Board challenges, blame shifting, supporters revolting (don't we know it). Williams leave and suddenly the whole club is unified and they win a flag off that spirit.

This bloke.

 

[Tyruddanaut]

I think with Kerridge and Casboult retiring and us bringing in Oliver, Wallis would be handy in the 2's for us, but don't see him as being part of our best 22.

And you say I have bad calls

 

[djw1952]

sounds like SOS has his work cut out for him then

Having some trouble finding the right insurance for the pig at this stage.........but if anyone can do it SOS can.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Dimma has publicly stated that he changed the way he coached after 2016, so no doubt there was a complete , honest inhouse analysis of everyone including Hardwick. Perhaps Williams was blamed... in any case they needed to shake things up .
What we forget in the tigers is that they had some good form in the previous years- their best was as good as anyones, but they were inconsistent. With some luck they could have done substantially better. the signs were there much earlier of what was to come

2015: Lost 4 of their first 6 games, then only lost 3 of the next 16 games. They were the form team going into the finals . But bundled out in the elimination final by the Roos- whothey had beaten easily the week before.

2014: Lost 10 of their first 14 games, then didnt lose another game until the elimination final . Again they were the form team going into the finals
2013 : Had 15 wins for the year and lost to us in the elimination final.

Those were the days!!!

 

[SurreyBlue]

Yep. Neil Balme has success inbred in him. Bugger.

 

[PrinceCharles]

And you say I have bad calls

Did you hear that sound?

 

[DangerousD]

I agree with that.

Just wondering why the Tigers were a mess when he was there. Board challenges, blame shifting, supporters revolting (don't we know it). Williams leave and suddenly the whole club is unified and they win a flag off that spirit.

By all reports he was well liked by the playing group.

 

[DangerousD]

Texto del enlace

Tigers gameplan and finals choke in 2015 was awfully reminiscent of early 2000's Port. It's not a coincidence things straightened up when he left.

Sent from mTalk

Did you guys really choke though?

As an outsider i thought that you should of at least played off in another final bt the Lions were a huge side. Or is that the point, that you kept getting beat in the qualifying final?

Lots of clubs have had a great list yet only won 1 flag or none at all.

 

[DangerousD]

Would love the club to look at and interview Chocco and Ratts. I was a big fan of Williams, love his combative style. To me he seems to be the type that players want to play for, a great developer. Perhaps the reason Port only won 1 flag is because maybe he wasn't a great match day coach or he didn't have a plan B.

One of my fav non Carlton memories was seeing him after their GF win, so much passion. His sides were tough as well, which i want back at the Blues.

 

[DangerousD]

I mentioned a few months ago that a friend of mine (who is close to a board member) said that his source stated that Lynch to the Tigers was a done deal.

This was in response to me asking if we were in to Lynch.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Would love the club to look at and interview Chocco and Ratts. I was a big fan of Williams, love his combative style. To me he seems to be the type that players want to play for, a great developer. Perhaps the reason Port only won 1 flag is because maybe he wasn't a great match day coach or he didn't have a plan B.

One of my fav non Carlton memories was seeing him after their GF win, so much passion. His sides were tough as well, which i want back at the Blues.

He had a squad that could have won multiple flags post 2000 but only managed to appear in one grand final.
From 2008 to 2010 with Choco at the helm Port were as bad if not worse than us the last few years. He inherited a good list and left it in tatters.
DO NOT WANT.

 

[Doro]

I agree with that.

Just wondering why the Tigers were a mess when he was there. Board challenges, blame shifting, supporters revolting (don't we know it). Williams leave and suddenly the whole club is unified and they win a flag off that spirit.

This article on the Balme appointment illustrates just how much the Tigers asked themselves questions and moved people on. Balme is too old imo to go again though.


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-12/tigers-appoint-neil-balme-as-head-of-football

The club said the 10-week review had taken in data analysis, comparative benchmarking and consultation with key stakeholders within the club.

Gale said the review had been a thorough process and had taken the time required.

 

[Limestone]

I agree with that.

Just wondering why the Tigers were a mess when he was there. Board challenges, blame shifting, supporters revolting (don't we know it). Williams leave and suddenly the whole club is unified and they win a flag off that spirit.

The other Mark Williams ( ex Carlton player ) who also coached at Richmond until they were all sacked in 2016, told me that Hardwick refused to listen or take advice from any of the assistant coaches . Hardwick kept his job, they gave him a new set of line coaches ,and was told to listen and work with then ,or he was out too. The rest is history.

 

[__Bobcat__]

That man "Blake Catacella" is a big reason why they are so good.

 

[sosos]

Makes me sick the slobbering over the punt road ferals.

There's only one reason they won and that was their miraculous run with injuries.

And there are plenty of people with theories about how they did that.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

Just read that Choco Williams has announced he is stepping down from his current role.

Any chance of taking over from where Neil Craig left off in a mentoring role for Bolts?

SOS has had a busy week.
Williams is the Father-in-law of Dylan Shiel!
Mitch McGovern out with a shoulder injury!
This has got SOS's fingerprints all over it.
Coincidence????........I think not!


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[Big_Luch]

Makes me sick the slobbering over the punt road ferals.

There's only one reason they won and that was their miraculous run with injuries.

And there are plenty of people with theories about how they did that.

This year they have had a few more and they appear to have gotten better.

I think the competitive advantage is the game style which nobody has worked out how to combat.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

Development, as we know takes a long time- not 6 months. I am not sure we could lay the success of the tigers list development at the foot of his replacement. There may very well have been friction between Dimma and Williams and Williams was sacked because of this rather than incompetence.
Williams is not a particularly humble sort of guy, and when the pressure was on Hardwick end of 2016, I suspect that Williams was not terribly supportive.
I get that he is not particularly likeable looking at his public persona- but the players must really respond to him in a development role, for him to have had the success he has had.

Dimma was close to getting the sack. Maybe Williams saw the writing on the wall and saw an opportunity for another senior coaching role.
The club sticks with Dimma....bye bye Choco?


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