Blues Drafting & the AFL of the Future

[The Exorcist]

Early in the week I thought that the Blues would draft a tall with pick 12, however after reading a ericpascoe post it was clear the Blues would be focusing on another mid (EP's sources are pretty damn good).

So while we've got good ruck stocks, I reckon our KPP's are looking a little underdone. We've got:

• Jamo, potentially could hold done full back for the next 5 - 10 years, but is injury prone
• Bower, doing very well but struggles on sizeable forwards
• Thornton, has been used on sizeable forwards, but is better suited to mid-sized forwards
• Waite, love him running from the backline and holds CHB. However, has a knee operation and is 27
• Hendo, loads of potential but young
• Carlos, showed great signs mid-year, but really needs to maintain it and remain injury free. Is also getting on in AFL terms

Basically, our backline is doing okay but our forward line looks light on for talls. Yes, there's talk of Kruz but that's yet to be tested, and Austin hasn't yet made his mark and has predominately played back to this point in time. Despite what seems to be a lack of talls, we didn't select Talia when available, giving up a future forward line of Talia & Hendo

However, how important is it to have two KPPs on the forward line in the AFL of the future? The game now is moving so fast and so dependent on mids to move the ball forward quickly, and to run it from defence and to apply pressure, that the traditional CHF & FF dual roles doesn't hold the importance it once did. Good mids can make an average forward look good.

What I'm getting at is that our first round selection of a mid (which we seem to have lots of) over a tall isn't as disastrous as some make out and actually makes good sense. The game is becoming more dependent on classy mids, especially those who can kick goals on the run, that more and more teams of the future may only rely on one KPP on the forward line surrounded by 3 or 4 classy mids.

That's the way the game appears to be heading, and in this context the selection makes good sense

 

[Tanks_Alot]

This AFL of the future where you only need one KPF doesn't really make sense to me. Think about this, we had the best FF (IMO) in the AFL in terms of ability and yet we still struggled. Why? Because every game we played opposition side would gang up on him and we would have no other targets to kick to. Basically what I'm trying to say is that we've tried the 1 KPF with dominant midfield thing before and his hasn't worked.

If we have a couple of targets in our forward line, this will make us unpredictable and therefore more dangerous.

Simply look back to the Pies game this year... Our midfield were able to send the ball into our F50 on just as many occasions as the Pies if not more IIRC, yet we still managed only 40 points! Why? Because Maxwell dropped back and played as a loose defender guarding the entries to Fev to help Presti out. And that was the end of us, we got exposed badly. I just don't want that to happen again.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Apparently, according to the Carlton supporters on here, you ony need 2 X KPF and 2 X KPB. Doesnt matter how good they are, as long as Setanta lines up at CHF, we are set.

According to WH, drafting talls is too much of a threat to his occupation, and therefore, 7/8ths of the list shold be smalls. After all, "You can never have too many midfielders" says WH, and he is dead serious.

AFL in the 21st and 22nd centuries will be play entirely in the midfield according to WH. Bookmark it.

 

[blues4flag]

Disregard him at your peril. If it clicks for him, there won't be a defender in the competition able to match it with him.

 

[1995]

In my opinion, only having the one tall or main guy in our forward line will only create Fev-like problems.. Just my opinion..

EDIT: Sorry Tanks, should have read your post.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

In my opinion, only having the one tall or main guy in our forward line will only create Fev-like problems.. Just my opinion..

EDIT: Sorry Tanks, should have read your post.

No need to apologise buddy, your opinions are always welcome here

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Disregard him at your peril. If it clicks for him, there won't be a defender in the competition able to match it with him.

That's a big point, and also a big if.

 

[Pratt = Premiers]

Don't be fooled into thinking we have heaps of mids, this is only a perception. Our list consists of 4 A grade mids, being Judd, Gibbs, Murphy and McLean and i'm being generous saying McLean is an A grader. The next level of mids comes from Walker (injury prone), Grigg (struggled for form last year), Simpson (solid, but suited to a wing), Russel (half back flank), Carrazzo (gets the best out of himself, but never going to be a star) and the younger blokes like Joseph, Yarran and Robinson.
Our midfield also lacks dash, Judd can give it, but its hard to show dash when two blokes are holding on to you, so to bring someone like Lucas in who could well be an A grade Mid, is quick, great skills and gets his own ball while also being able to carry is a good thing.

Yes there is a lot of pressure on the likes of Henderson and Austin to show something in the next year or so, but by having a midfield that is not just holding their own, but winning it, will take a bit of pressure off and give them plenty of opportunities.
Cam Mooney is an average footballer at best, but he has three premierships, two of them on the back of a very good midfield (the other sitting on the bench all day).

 

[Shambolic]

Hi Smell The Glove

I dont think theres any need to make this a forum-war. The Carlton forums can all coexist and people like you (and anyone) can live on one and go and have a chat on others. The more the merrier I say, particularly for refugees or those looking for a new home. Waht are we at - 5 Carlton forums now with that new one?

With that in mind I dont think its a BF view versus a CSC view; you might get a stronger congregation of a view either through each site naturally suiting people with the same views, or by a minority / majority not speaking up on either.

For myself I am intrigued as to these selections. One argument I cant go past is that if we had Lucas at say 8 and Talia at 15 - the choice is clear. It has to be Lucas. If we had Lucas at 12 and Talia at 13 then the choice is confused. If we didnt have Talia in the top 20 then its a no brainer.

Your argument that WH is a kid in a candy store and goes for 'wants' doesnt wash with me. Does 'want' = 'best available'? Surely the Club and Recruiter talk this through. If its all agreed then so be it.

At the end of the day I still think we're a loing way off a top 4 team. We are shallow for quality midfield depth, very reliant on a few vry good players in defence and now without any clear key forward options.

Huge pressure on Ratten in 2010. Making goals with 3 indigenous forwards, Henderson, Waite and a ruck or two will be hard, but it is possible.

And I dont buy the argument at all that we're lucky Henderson came to us. You presume that nothing would have changed regardless of trade week. That is just a guess.

 

[mediumsizered]

Simply look back to the Pies game this year... Our midfield were able to send the ball into our F50 on just as many occasions as the Pies if not more IIRC, yet we still managed only 40 points! Why? Because Maxwell dropped back and played as a loose defender guarding the entries to Fev to help Presti out. And that was the end of us, we got exposed badly. I just don't want that to happen again.

Interesting to note in that game only 2 of Collingwood's goals came from their 2 KP forwards (Anthony & Cloke), with Leon Davis kicking 3 (he also kicked 4 behinds), Beams a couple & Thomas, Didak, Swan, Lockyer, Barham, Toovey & Dawes sharing the rest. In other words, despite being able to easily cover Anthony & Cloke, the work rate of Collingwood's small & medium sized players ensured they comfortably kicked a winning score, while filling the holes defensively to limit our scoring opportunities. That is the way of the future.

 

[BlueTongue]

A mate of mine made an interesting comment today (well it was actually a joke at the time but the more I thought about it, the more I was convinced it was a real possibility) when I told him that we'd recruited another midfielder.

He said that "The way footy is going at the moment, we'll end up watching matches that look like an under 7's Auskick game. Just a whole pack just running around following the ball everywhere".

And even though I laughed at the time, I seriously think that that's not gonna be too far off the mark, in the not to distant future.

 

[Salaryman]

Apparently, according to the Carlton supporters on here, you ony need 2 X KPF and 2 X KPB. Doesnt matter how good they are, as long as Setanta lines up at CHF, we are set.

According to WH, drafting talls is too much of a threat to his occupation, and therefore, 7/8ths of the list shold be smalls. After all, "You can never have too many midfielders" says WH, and he is dead serious.

AFL in the 21st and 22nd centuries will be play entirely in the midfield according to WH. Bookmark it.

You need a hysterectomy

 

[yibbida]

You need a hysterectomy

It's all about rotations. If we can have 2 "teams" of midfielders who can rotate through midfield without a drop in quality, we will be closer to 17 than we were. Gibbs and/or Murph may rarely start in the middle with Juddy ever again. This is a positive.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Interesting to note in that game only 2 of Collingwood's goals came from their 2 KP forwards (Anthony & Cloke), with Leon Davis kicking 3 (he also kicked 4 behinds), Beams a couple & Thomas, Didak, Swan, Lockyer, Barham, Toovey & Dawes sharing the rest. In other words, despite being able to easily cover Anthony & Cloke, the work rate of Collingwood's small & medium sized players ensured they comfortably kicked a winning score, while filling the holes defensively to limit our scoring opportunities. That is the way of the future.

Yeah but their presence made their forwardline unpredictable and they created opportunities for the smaller medium sized forwards. Fev couldn't do this on his own especially when he gets double teamed. With Fev gone I would have thought that the only solution is to develop a forward line consisting of multiple talented and damaging targets which would make us unpredictable and dangerous at the same time. We havn't done that and we will now be horribly exposed in that area next year. When Fev didn't work for us this year, our forward line was dysfunctional. All we have done now is replace Fev with Henderson.

Also, don't forget the Pies have a really decent set of medium forwards, we don't. Our only developing medium forward is Yarran who also might end up in the midfield.

 

[mediumsizered]

Also, don't forget the Pies have a really decent set of medium forwards, we don't. Our only developing medium forward is Yarran who also might end up in the midfield.

Walker, Robinson, Lucas perhaps Kerr, along with the resting Murphy, Gibbs, a bloke called Judd. Collingwood's medium forwards, as is the case with Geelong's medium forwards, are part of their midfield rotation & it is clear that is what Carlton are aiming for.

An interesting stat I found after the 2009 season was completed was that we had 19 different players kick 2 or more goals in a game. That is half our list. I would expect in coming seasons that figure to grow even more. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we are going to see the demise of, or reduction in numbers of, decent power forwards in the next 5 years or so.

 

[krayfesh]

A forward line doesn't need lots of KPP. It needs lots of genuine options.

When we had Fev, we built our forward line around him and kicked to our only option.

Hopefully, a new structure means we'll have more options. Not just filler positions, quality targets.

Which doesn't necessarily mean big targets. Yarran and Lucas on either flank with Henderson and Betts closer to goal are quality targets.

 

[starchamber]

Early in the week I thought that the Blues would draft a tall with pick 12, however after reading a ericpascoe post it was clear the Blues would be focusing on another mid (EP's sources are pretty damn good).

So while we've got good ruck stocks, I reckon our KPP's are looking a little underdone. We've got:

• Jamo, potentially could hold done full back for the next 5 - 10 years, but is injury prone
• Bower, doing very well but struggles on sizeable forwards
• Thornton, has been used on sizeable forwards, but is better suited to mid-sized forwards
• Waite, love him running from the backline and holds CHB. However, has a knee operation and is 27
• Hendo, loads of potential but young
• Carlos, showed great signs mid-year, but really needs to maintain it and remain injury free. Is also getting on in AFL terms

Basically, our backline is doing okay but our forward line looks light on for talls. Yes, there's talk of Kruz but that's yet to be tested, and Austin hasn't yet made his mark and has predominately played back to this point in time. Despite what seems to be a lack of talls, we didn't select Talia when available, giving up a future forward line of Talia & Hendo

However, how important is it to have two KPPs on the forward line in the AFL of the future? The game now is moving so fast and so dependent on mids to move the ball forward quickly, and to run it from defence and to apply pressure, that the traditional CHF & FF dual roles doesn't hold the importance it once did. Good mids can make an average forward look good.

What I'm getting at is that our first round selection of a mid (which we seem to have lots of) over a tall isn't as disastrous as some make out and actually makes good sense. The game is becoming more dependent on classy mids, especially those who can kick goals on the run, that more and more teams of the future may only rely on one KPP on the forward line surrounded by 3 or 4 classy mids.

That's the way the game appears to be heading, and in this context the selection makes good sense

keep believing that and Father Christmas also.By the way he ain't real i had to break it to you. The ones you see at the shopping stores are pedophiles dressed in a suit,lol

 

[one_twelve112]

I still see us 1 strong player short in the backline. I recall seeing Jamo this year at the Bullants Semi final against Port Melbounre walking with Jordan Russell and to be perfectly honest, he had a smaller frame but was a couple of centremeters taller. I remember seeing him next to the Fev and he looked like a boy standing next to a man. Jamo looks great on leading forwards but will really really struggle body on body with the big boy forwards.
Bradshaw
Fevola
Tippett
Brown
Pavlich
Mooney
Roughead
etc...

Thornton I only view as a good 3rd man up defender and would not really back him one-on-one on the last line of defence.
Bower is a rebounding flanker for mine, and again, doesn't physically stand up well on the solid forwards.
Waite is best used when playing back, on a high leading forwad i.e. one that plays from the 50m arc up the wings or through the middle as this is where he provides the best rebound.

For me, we still lack that one big solid, brick shithouse defender, that we can park on the goal line to play on the power forwards. For years we struggled against teams like Brisbane & Essendon and until this issue is address I would not be overly confident in our defence.

I have not seen this issue addressed by the club over the past 5-6 drafts other than the failed Mick Martyn experiment of the Pagan tenure.

 

[blue gunslinger]

A mate of mine made an interesting comment today (well it was actually a joke at the time but the more I thought about it, the more I was convinced it was a real possibility) when I told him that we'd recruited another midfielder.

He said that "The way footy is going at the moment, we'll end up watching matches that look like an under 7's Auskick game. Just a whole pack just running around following the ball everywhere".

And even though I laughed at the time, I seriously think that that's not gonna be too far off the mark, in the not to distant future.

No zone works versus that style of play so sounds good to me.

 

[The Exorcist]

keep believing that and Father Christmas also.By the way he ain't real i had to break it to you. The ones you see at the shopping stores are pedophiles dressed in a suit,lol

In a thread dealing with the value of a mid-fielder in future AFL teams, you talk about pedophiles.

In a thread dealing with drafting Mitch Thorp, you talk about gay Hawthorn footballers having a shower

And in another thread dealing with drafting Majak Daw, you talk about surfing the web for Russian brides.

Please, tell me about your childhood?

 

[BlueNorthernRage]

In a thread dealing with the value of a mid-fielder in future AFL teams, you talk about pedophiles.

In a thread dealing with drafting Mitch Thorp, you talk about gay Hawthorn footballers having a shower

And in another thread dealing with drafting Majak Daw, you talk about surfing the web for Russian brides.

Please, tell me about your childhood?

You sure you want to open up that door???

 

[starchamber]

In a thread dealing with the value of a mid-fielder in future AFL teams, you talk about pedophiles.

In a thread dealing with drafting Mitch Thorp, you talk about gay Hawthorn footballers having a shower

And in another thread dealing with drafting Majak Daw, you talk about surfing the web for Russian brides.

Please, tell me about your childhood?

Dude How come you wanna know about my childhood? You remind me of the snake in Adam and Eve. He was a very very naughty snake.

The snake was apparently gay.They say the snake was a very funny snake who couldn't keep his tongue in.The Snake gave a Apple to Eve, not long after Steve was born. Steve meet a nice man called Adam and they were the first recorded gay couple.

The snake was a head of his times and was believed to be the first thing to ever play with any ball. The snake was officially the first recorded head of the states giving wisdom to all.

 

[starchamber]

A forward line doesn't need lots of KPP. It needs lots of genuine options.

When we had Fev, we built our forward line around him and kicked to our only option.

Hopefully, a new structure means we'll have more options. Not just filler positions, quality targets.

Which doesn't necessarily mean big targets. Yarran and Lucas on either flank with Henderson and Betts closer to goal are quality targets.

I reckon you still should have a couple of tall guys in the forward line as long as they can mark the ball.

 

[Big Red is back]

This AFL of the future where you only need one KPF doesn't really make sense to me. Think about this, we had the best FF (IMO) in the AFL in terms of ability and yet we still struggled. Why? Because every game we played opposition side would gang up on him and we would have no other targets to kick to. Basically what I'm trying to say is that we've tried the 1 KPF with dominant midfield thing before and his hasn't worked.

If we have a couple of targets in our forward line, this will make us unpredictable and therefore more dangerous.

Simply look back to the Pies game this year... Our midfield were able to send the ball into our F50 on just as many occasions as the Pies if not more IIRC, yet we still managed only 40 points! Why? Because Maxwell dropped back and played as a loose defender guarding the entries to Fev to help Presti out. And that was the end of us, we got exposed badly. I just don't want that to happen again.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Carlton lead the league in 2009 for inside 50's conversion to score as such Fev was naturally the key to our success not a problem.

 

[Shambolic]

Wrong wrong wrong.

Carlton lead the league in 2009 for inside 50's conversion to score as such Fev was naturally the key to our success not a problem.

Not entering the specific debate but a big reason for that loss was great midfield pressure by the Pies stuffing up our entries with dodgy kicks. It was laughable - I remember a 10 minute patch where every entry was just sprayed. Fev, nor indeed anyone else, had any chance that night.