Bode Ladhams Watts

[Mad Dog]

I disagree. Ladhams is definely not a FP type. He looks a bit lost when played deep in the forward line. His best position by far is a HFF.

hmmmm - I tend to go a bit the other way....HF Flankers tend to drop out of the game a bit more regularly...ie very early days with Macca, etc......particularly in sides like ours where the HBFers and midfielders tend to deliver deeper into the fwd line because of no dominant CHF. (This is not a good thing for Ladhams given his relatively short attention span.)
Regardless....these days fwd structure changes from one centre bounce to the next so the point is academic really........I think Ladhams is the epitome of opportunism and has a role to play in our fwd line.

 

[outback jack]

and divide it by the square root of the average % of games played in the past 8 years - what rubbish Stiff.

So how did the following players end up on our list, they just miraculously appeared i suppose.

Begley,
Bock,
Burton,
Bode,
Jericho,
Kruger,
Ladhams,
Massie,
Perrie,
Schuback,
Shirley,
Skipworth,
Smith,
S Stevens.

i think skipworth can be added and you can take the birdman off. Bock should come of too, hes a star

i'm sure you've missed some, but say we delist 5 off a yr thats 3 yrs of 'rebuilding' atleast there. That doesnt include the retirements of clark and m stevens and probably b hart.

 

[outback jack]

Your 100% spot on here

If Ladhams isnt playing on Friday night, we are tanking.

Well, maybe not but we certainly arent playing our best team. Which at best is really stupid. He has to get a freakin game FFS.

ladhams was in our 22 maybe 3 yrs ago. A lot of time has pasted since then. Ladhams by all reports didnt work during preseason so now he pays the price. Its not as if hes a star, he has no workrate either, i cant see what the big deal is.

 

[Crowked]

I wouldn't say we are tanking. I would say his attitud to football hasn't improved to the point where he has convinced NC that he wants to be an AFL footballer.

If Ladhams doesn't get picked then its entirely his fault and no one else's

I dont disagree with what you say but sooner or later he has to be given the opportunity to prove NC right or wrong. If he doesnt get that opportunity, then surely NC has to be at least partialy responsible.

I personaly think there is a place for Ladhams in the team. Some people are extraverts with attitudes that arent conventional, he isnt the only one in the AFL. IMO he has the potential to be our version of Richmonds Nathan Brown, who also hasnt got the conventional attitude. I doubt Wallets going to leave out Brown because his attitude is poor. He kicks goals and Wallet knows while he might be a problem from time to time, he can win games off his own boot. One thing is for sure, we wont be contending finals this year if we persist with insisting everyone being robotic, uncreative and defensive which is what seems to be what we are creating. Doughty is a prime example, a good/average defensive midfielder, as uncreative as it gets but a certain starter every week.

NC needs to recognise that a player like Ladhams while he has faults, he also has possitives that can be exploited. If you cant identify and exploit possitive aspects of players games then your a pretty ordinary coach, because thats half the battle. IMO leaving him out is hurting the AFC as much as its hurting Ladhams.

 

[Crowked]

ladhams was in our 22 maybe 3 yrs ago. A lot of time has pasted since then. Ladhams by all reports didnt work during preseason so now he pays the price. Its not as if hes a star, he has no workrate either, i cant see what the big deal is.

The big deal is we are getting beaten by lesser teams because we cant convert our millions of forward 50 entries into goals. Yet we have a genuine goal kicker and potential match winner playing in the SANFL because he's not a robot but actually has personality and flair. You obviously dont rate him but I absolutely guarentee you, he has more talent than 80% of our other players. There is no doubt in my mind he is in our best 22, in our best 10 going on natural talent. Also, he's only 24 years old, hardly beyond his best.

 

[Stiffy_18]

and divide it by the square root of the average % of games played in the past 8 years - what rubbish Stiff.

Typical.

Do a proper reasearch not a half assed effort that you and outback jack did a while ago.

So how did the following players end up on our list, they just miraculously appeared i suppose.

Begley,
Bock,
Burton,
Bode,
Jericho,
Kruger,
Ladhams,
Massie,
Perrie,
Schuback,
Shirley,
Skipworth,
Smith,
S Stevens.

Begley - Pick 68, 2002 National Draft
Bock - 2001 Rookie Draft
Burton - Pick 16, 1998 National Draft
Bode - Via Trade. We traded pick 12 for Bode and pick 48
Jericho - Pick 32, 2002 National Draft
Krueger - Pick 31, 2003 National Draft
Ladhams - Pick 5, 2001 Pre-Season Draft
Massie - Via Trade. Adelaide traded Andrew Eccles to Carlton for Kris Massie
Perrie - Pick 49, 1997 National Draft
Schuback - Pick 59, 2001 National Draft
Shirley - Pick 67, 1999 National Draft
Skipworth - Pick 53, 2000 National Draft
Smith - Pick 48, 2000 National Draft
S. Stevens - Via Trade, Adelaide traded pick 29 and 45 to Sydney for Stevens and pick 31. Effectively a trade for a 3rd round draft pick.

Lets also mention some of his very good work since we are here

Pick 27 - Kane Johnson
Pick 29 - Tyson Stenglein
Pick 67 - Graham Johncock
Pick 75 - Ken McGregor
Rookie List - Ben Rutten
Rookie List - Martin Mattner
Rookie List - Michael Doughty

Those are just off the top of my head. I am not a Doughty fan but I would take him every time with a rookie pick.

Also how many times in the past has Adelaide had pick inside 30??????

It sh*ts me off too when people constantly bag the AFC and everything it does. But it also p*sses me off when some look at the club through rose coloured classes all the time. Isn't that how we got ouselves in this mess in the first place? A little realism now and then doesn't hurt.

True but there is a difference between being reasonable and look at things rationaly rather than being looking through things with rose colooured glasses.

There is a difference between being realistic and slagging off at every opportunity

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Typical.

Do a proper reasearch not a half assed effort that you and outback jack did a while ago.


Begley - Pick 68, 2002 National Draft
Bock - 2001 Rookie Draft
Burton - Pick 16, 1998 National Draft
Bode - Via Trade. We traded pick 12 for Bode and pick 48
Jericho - Pick 32, 2002 National Draft
Krueger - Pick 31, 2003 National Draft
Ladhams - Pick 5, 2001 Pre-Season Draft
Massie - Via Trade. Adelaide traded Andrew Eccles to Carlton for Kris Massie
Perrie - Pick 49, 1997 National Draft
Schuback - Pick 59, 2001 National Draft
Shirley - Pick 67, 1999 National Draft
Skipworth - Pick 53, 2000 National Draft
Smith - Pick 48, 2000 National Draft
S. Stevens - Via Trade, Adelaide traded pick 29 and 45 to Sydney for Stevens and pick 31. Effectively a trade for a 3rd round draft pick.

Lets also mention some of his very good work since we are here

Pick 27 - Kane Johnson
Pick 29 - Tyson Stenglein
Pick 67 - Graham Johncock
Pick 75 - Ken McGregor
Rookie List - Ben Rutten
Rookie List - Martin Mattner
Rookie List - Michael Doughty

Those are just off the top of my head. I am not a Doughty fan but I would take him every time with a rookie pick.

Also how many times in the past has Adelaide had pick inside 30??????

True but there is a difference between being reasonable and look at things rationaly rather than being looking through things with rose colooured glasses.

There is a difference between being realistic and slagging off at every opportunity

Nah your right Stiff, James has done an excellent job. Players such as Skipworth, Smith, S Stevens, Bock, Ladhams, Massie etc etc are destined to be all sensational AFL footballers. It's not James' fault nearly a quarter of our list,will probably be, at best, very average footballers. He only does the recruiting.


God you really get quite defensive when someone speaks out against your little Fanta don't you???

 

[Fergus]

I dont disagree with what you say but sooner or later he has to be given the opportunity to prove NC right or wrong. If he doesnt get that opportunity, then surely NC has to be at least partialy responsible.

I personaly think there is a place for Ladhams in the team. Some people are extraverts with attitudes that arent conventional, he isnt the only one in the AFL. IMO he has the potential to be our version of Richmonds Nathan Brown, who also hasnt got the conventional attitude. I doubt Wallets going to leave out Brown because his attitude is poor. He kicks goals and Wallet knows while he might be a problem from time to time, he can win games off his own boot. One thing is for sure, we wont be contending finals this year if we persist with insisting everyone being robotic, uncreative and defensive which is what seems to be what we are creating. Doughty is a prime example, a good/average defensive midfielder, as uncreative as it gets but a certain starter every week.

NC needs to recognise that a player like Ladhams while he has faults, he also has possitives that can be exploited. If you cant identify and exploit possitive aspects of players games then your a pretty ordinary coach, because thats half the battle. IMO leaving him out is hurting the AFC as much as its hurting Ladhams.

I would like to see Ladhams get a go as well, but as Stiffy said the only reason he won't is if he hasn't done the necessary work.

The flaw with your argument about flair etc and using Brown as an example is that you are looking at game day only. I would bet both Stiffy's testicles that Brown does everything required of him in terms of preparation and training, and whilst he may think differently to some people he is regarded as being highly professional with his approach to the game - my understanding is that Ladhams doesn't have the same attitude.

There's definitely room for creativity on the field and I'm sure that Craig would encourage it, however I'm sure there are certan non-negotiables prior to game day, and even on game day, that Ladhams so far hasn't met.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Nah your right Stiff, James has done an excellent job. Players such as Skipworth, Smith, S Stevens, Bock, Ladhams, Massie etc etc are destined to be all sensational AFL footballers. It's not James' fault nearly a quarter of our list,will probably be, at best, very average footballers. He only does the recruiting.


God you really get quite defensive when someone speaks out against your little Fanta don't you???

Nah, I mean if a recruiting manager doesn't pick up Chris Judd with pick 56, Nick Reiwoldt with with 49, Warrent Tredrea with pick in the 70 and the likes of Daniel Wells and Luke Ball with via rookie draft then he muct be ********.

I repeat again, but I am not sure why I bother since obviously you aren't being rational. You can only work with what you've got and considering where those players you mentined have been picked then there isn't much to work with no matter who you are as a recruiter.

If James Fantasia screws up I am the first one to tell him don't worry. He copped a fair bit of slack from me when he selected Josh Krueger instead of Brent Hall. Time will tell who was right.

I have a problem when people get unwarranted critisism. Sure he has made stuff ups as has every other recruiting manager but no where near the extent you and outback jack are saying.

Since you are quick to bag, tell me who would you have selected with the picks above? I really look forward to your reply on this one.

 

[outback jack]

Nah your right Stiff, James has done an excellent job. Players such as Skipworth, Smith, S Stevens, Bock, Ladhams, Massie etc etc are destined to be all sensational AFL footballers. It's not James' fault nearly a quarter of our list,will probably be, at best, very average footballers. He only does the recruiting.


God you really get quite defensive when someone speaks out against your little Fanta don't you???

good point. you have jacks support

It reminds me a bit of when Triggy was defending the terribly flawed ‘process’ to select a coach last yr.

now anyway, how do we go about getting Jimmy and the trading negotiator sacked?

 

[Stiffy_18]

I would like to see Ladhams get a go as well, but as Stiffy said the only reason he won't is if he hasn't done the necessary work.

The flaw with your argument about flair etc and using Brown as an example is that you are looking at game day only. I would bet both Stiffy's testicles that Brown does everything required of him in terms of preparation and training, and whilst he may think differently to some people he is regarded as being highly professional with his approach to the game - my understanding is that Ladhams doesn't have the same attitude.

There's definitely room for creativity on the field and I'm sure that Craig would encourage it, however I'm sure there are certan non-negotiables prior to game day, and even on game day, that Ladhams so far hasn't met.

Spot on

 

[outback jack]

Nah, I mean if a recruiting manager doesn't pick up Chris Judd with pick 56, Nick Reiwoldt with with 49, Warrent Tredrea with pick in the 70 and the likes of Daniel Wells and Luke Ball with via rookie draft then he muct be ********.

stiffy you are being irrational once again. And plz dont mention daniel wells ever again..

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Nah, I mean if a recruiting manager doesn't pick up Chris Judd with pick 56, Nick Reiwoldt with with 49, Warrent Tredrea with pick in the 70 and the likes of Daniel Wells and Luke Ball with via rookie draft then he muct be ********.

I repeat again, but I am not sure why I bother since obviously you aren't being rational. You can only work with what you've got and considering where those players you mentined have been picked then there isn't much to work with no matter who you are as a recruiter.

If James Fantasia screws up I am the first one to tell him don't worry. He copped a fair bit of slack from me when he selected Josh Krueger instead of Brent Hall. Time will tell who was right.

I have a problem when people get unwarranted critisism. Sure he has made stuff ups as has every other recruiting manager but no where near the extent you and outback jack are saying.

Since you are quick to bag, tell me who would you have selected with the picks above? I really look forward to your reply on this one.

Let's leave it there then shall we. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to judge Fantas job performance rationally, whereas you will continue to judge him on........well....have you heard of Rupert Pupkin??

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

i think skipworth can be added and you can take the birdman off. Bock should come of too, hes a star

i'm sure you've missed some, but say we delist 5 off a yr thats 3 yrs of 'rebuilding' atleast there. That doesnt include the retirements of clark and m stevens and probably b hart.

You don't seriously believe that do you jackie???

 

[outback jack]

You don't seriously believe that do you jackie???

ofcourse not but lets not call him a dud quite yet. He was a rookie pick from memory, so we cant expect the champ to show his gun qualities quite yet

 

[WaynesWorld19]

No because you are being ignorant and selectively reading what you want to read.

FACT: Ladhams is our best crumber who can play as a full time small forward that can kick goals. He has it in him. Its up to him to see if he wants it or not and that what this year is about. This is his last chance. He takes it and we are all better for it. He fails we move on end of story. He has produced for us in the past but some of you conviniently overlook this and just bag players for the sake of bagging them.

I think Fanta's job is quite safe because if you actually do a proper research, see what picks he had available and who he picked up with them. How many AFL games has that player played. Do the same for every other club. See what the average play 50, 100, 150, 200 AFL games in each draft pool and where those players were selected. Take out the average of of every other club to get the success rate and compare it to James' record. Then you will realise his record is only behind 2 other recruiting managers in the league and I will let you work out which clubs employ those 2 guys.

Its easy to shoot off the hip without all the facts. Something thats happening a hell of a lot around here lately. Whethere its about James or Craig. People have their view and stick by them no matter how flawed they are

Have to agree on both accounts:

1. Ladhams has the talent and skill to be a very good player if he decides to apply himself to the type of game Craig wants.

Yes criticize him for his performances over the last couple of years but do not correlate that to what this kid is capable of.

2. Again agree that overall Fantasia has not done any better or worse than other recruiting managers.

Yes we had a quiet couple of years but look at Judkins from Collingwood who WAS supposedly one of the best recruiters - his performance has been ordinary at best - sometimes you hit gold, sometimes Quartz

 

[macca23]

Yes we had a quiet couple of years but look at Judkins from Collingwood who WAS supposedly one of the best recruiters - his performance has been ordinary at best - sometimes you hit gold, sometimes Quartz

Couldn't agree more.

Looking at collingwood's list, it looks like Judkins has been drilling in a septic tank.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Looking at collingwood's list, it looks like Judkins has been drilling in a septic tank

Well said -

Are we complaining about Hudson, Krueger (only injury is clouding his future), Van Berlo, Jericho (in the pick 30's), Stiffy, Watts, ...

Absolutely agree that 1999 and 2000 were dud years but we have certainly got IMO value for our draft picks after that.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Our drafting does appear on the surface to have picked up over the past few years, though many of the youngsters are still unproven. However, it has too, as we were doing better with late or pre-season picks than our early picks in the National Draft.

 

[just maybe]

I think James Fantasia's performance has been average to poor.

Yes, it's true, he's got a few guns. But so have every club. The problem is the majority of what he's produced have been players with glaring footballing deficiencies who will never be better than mediocre AFL footballers - in fact, the majority of our list is composed of them.

When the majority of your list is composed of that, then it comes back to the recruiter. Which is Fantasia. Much like our list, his performance has been incredibly mediocre.

 

[iceman21]

Gee, It seems as if its so easy to criticise that we all should have a go!

I wonder ho much time these prawnheads have spent at the footy?
I also wonder if there not the guy who sits there with his guts hanging out the bottom of their shirt abusing their team for making a mistake instead of cheering when something goes well?

The recruiting managers of evey AFL team have some picks that turn to gold eg: Johncock, Goodwin and others that for one reason or another turn to crap eg: Angwin and his mates.

The main problem for rucruiting managers is the way the draft system works where the only way you can garantee talent is to do a Saint Kilda or Bulldogs and finsh last to gain high draft and priority picks once the top 5-6 players are gone it really becomes a lucky dip!

But O my God look at some of the players on other team lists! Surely you would have to admit,like him or not, that Fantasia has done as well as at least onother 16 blokes out there.

Also hate to mention another one of those annoying facts but while the recruiting managers do all the reserch and hard yards the final descision on a player remains with the coach in most cases.

Back to the actual Thread yes, yes and yes if we are serious about kicking at least four goal a quarter bring them in this week!

 

[just maybe]

No, he hasn't done as well as 16 others. He's done worse than a lot and better than a couple.

As I said, our list is incredibly mediocre and that comes down to him. He'd also have a big part in trading away our high picks to get players. That's why we dont have high picks, not because we just magically don't get them.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

No, he hasn't done as well as 16 others. He's done worse than a lot and better than a couple.

As I said, our list is incredibly mediocre and that comes down to him. He'd also have a big part in trading away our high picks to get players. That's why we dont have high picks, not because we just magically don't get them.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I was suprised with that one. When I read the 2 page spread on James it implied that he did also play a part in our trading. Which is pretty obvious really. Surely the coaching panel would come to him and say " hey James, we are thinking about trading pick 12 for Matt Bode, anyone of interest in the draft". James - "Cornes, Burgoyne, nah not really, go ahead".

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Gee, It seems as if its so easy to criticise that we all should have a go!

I wonder ho much time these prawnheads have spent at the footy?
I also wonder if there not the guy who sits there with his guts hanging out the bottom of their shirt abusing their team for making a mistake instead of cheering when something goes well?
The recruiting managers of evey AFL team have some picks that turn to gold eg: Johncock, Goodwin and others that for one reason or another turn to crap eg: Angwin and his mates.

The main problem for rucruiting managers is the way the draft system works where the only way you can garantee talent is to do a Saint Kilda or Bulldogs and finsh last to gain high draft and priority picks once the top 5-6 players are gone it really becomes a lucky dip!

But O my God look at some of the players on other team lists! Surely you would have to admit,like him or not, that Fantasia has done as well as at least onother 16 blokes out there.

Also hate to mention another one of those annoying facts but while the recruiting managers do all the reserch and hard yards the final descision on a player remains with the coach in most cases.

Back to the actual Thread yes, yes and yes if we are serious about kicking at least four goal a quarter bring them in this week!

"prawnheads - that cuts - ". Aren't these people getting paid alot of money to make the right decisions??? Amazes me how some are so delicate to a little criticism. Come and join the real world mate.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

I havn't got the time to look through all the posts on this one and it might have been bought up before but doen't the coach have the final say or at the least the type of player that must be recruited. All the coaches are sitting at the table (if my memory serves me correctly) during the process so they should be getting the kicks or accolades as well.

Bit hard just blaming the recruiting managers. Just my two jacks worth.