Boyd and Cross Stat

[fred cook]

Between Matthew Boyd and Daniel Cross they have 713 disposals this year for a total of seven goals

That"s a pretty shocking stat

 

[Testekill]

And? Their role in the team is to win the ball at the bottom of packs and feed it out to better users of the ball.

 

[Igloo]

Yeah, not seeing the correlation between disposals and goals myself. Role has a lot to do with it.

 

[fred cook]

Yeah, not seeing the correlation between disposals and goals myself. Role has a lot to do with it.

You cant have two mid fielders with that stat in your side We need mid fielders that A can get the ball and B at least kick one or two goals a game I dont care how much of a QUALITY person they are

 

[LondonBulldog]

Untouchable are you really sure there role is to win the ball at the bottom of the pack and feed it out to better users of the ball.

If you watching closely a lot of their possesions are cheap or "waxing" of the ball across the half back line. I'm not totally blaming them as players like Addison and Wood have not stepped up. Granted they do more hard work then others yet they get their share of cheapies or irrelevant posssession as well.

I know who's possesions I would have taken out of Watson's 14 vs Boyd's 10 in the first quarter.

The point is the Boyd and Cross gather too many posession in the defensive half and is Cross case is way too defensive and negative when he has the ball. Cross is actually too slow to win the ball out of the centre these days.

 

[fred cook]

And? Their role in the team is to win the ball at the bottom of packs and feed it out to better users of the ball.

and who are they ??? Griff thats it

 

[LondonBulldog]

If you want to see the correlation compare that stat to the top 4 teams and their two best on ballers.

The correlation may slap you in the face.

 

[Igloo]

You cant have two mid fielders with that stat in your side We need mid fielders that A can get the ball and B at least kick one or two goals a game I dont care how much of a QUALITY person they are

I get that, but it seems very selective. Griffen has 310 disposals and only 6 goals. Cross has 318 and 2 goals. Why don't you include Griffen, arguably our best player in it? Boyd has about 100 more touches, and 1 less goal.

 

[fred cook]

I get that, but it seems very selective. Griffen has 310 disposals and only 6 goals. Cross has 318 and 2 goals. Why don't you include Griffen, arguably our best player in it? Boyd has about 100 more touches, and 1 less goal.

Because Griff is still quite young but look at your stat Griff had half the disposals and only one goal less

 

[Igloo]

Because Griff is still quite young but look at your stat Griff had half the disposals and only one goal less

Not compared to Cross. He only has 4 more goals than him. What does age have to do with it if you're just singling out a specific season? Griffen is turning 26 this year, it's not like he's an inconsistent 20 year old. Cross is only 3 years older than Griff anyway.

I'm not saying it's an acceptable stat, it's crap, but the way you've been very selective in who you have picked isn't very good, imo.

 

[StringyDog]

If you want to see the correlation compare that stat to the top 4 teams and their two best on ballers.

The correlation may slap you in the face.

You mean like Priddis/Kerr 10 goals, difference is they have lots of outside runners to kick the goals where as we don't.

There in lies the problem, they shouldn't be our best 2 midfielders, they are the types that should be your 3-5 midfielders but with Cooney limited, Higgins not becoming the midfielder he was recruited as and Griffen under performing they are! Boyd should be a pure inside mid but has to do the outside stuff as well which means he has to play outside his capabilities sometimes.

 

[cecil]

Between Matthew Boyd and Daniel Cross they have 713 disposals this year for a total of seven goals

That"s a pretty shocking stat

WC: Priddis and Kerr - 10 goals
Hawks - Mitchell and Sewell - 5 goals
Geelong - Corey and Selwood - 11 goals
Adel - Dangerfield and Thompson - 11 goals

correlation does not equal association

 

[fred cook]

WC: Priddis and Kerr - 10 goals
Hawks - Mitchell and Sewell - 5 goals
Geelong - Corey and Selwood - 11 goals
Adel - Dangerfield and Thompson - 11 goals

correlation does not equal association

Jobe watson 381 disp 15 goals

Dane swan 385 12 goals

Josh Kennedey 336 disp 17 goals

Kiren Jack 310 17 goals


so a total of 1442 disposals for 61 goals we have 713 disposals for 7 goals

 

[GiantDog]

Jobe watson 381 disp 15 goals

Dane swan 385 12 goals

Josh Kennedey 336 disp 17 goals

Kiren Jack 310 17 goals


so a total of 1442 disposals for 61 goals we have 713 disposals for 7 goals

You've handpicked whatever midfielders you wanted to help prove your argument... 1442 disposals for 61 goals is also based off the 4 mids you picked... which in comparison to the 713 for 7 goals is two players... how can you use this as justification astounds me... Swan and Watson then
to use your hypothetical would be 766 disposals for 27 goals. So in comparison they've had 53 more touches and also 20 more goals... over 13 games..That roughly equates to 4.1 extra possessions a game and 1.5 extra goals a game between the two players... I'm sure noone who supports the doggies wouldn't like anything more than to see their mids kicking more goals, thats a given. But i think its also pretty obvious that we aren't a top four team and its a team game.... All you've mentioned are fantastic players.... in a top four team... wouldn't it be better to compare your boyd and cross statistics against say... port adelaide... melbourne... gws..gold coast... Because that is where we are at at the moment. So to carry on with your post i'll throw my own spin on it...because it really is that easy...

Melbourne - I've decided Jack Trengrove and Brent Moloney are their best mids... my oppinion... but again... we will ignore that to showcase the statistics i've dug up to prove my argument then... 217 Disposals 5 Goals for Trengrove, 187 Disposals 3 Goals for Moloney (notice i only used two players for the comparison rather than four like you did?) Using the handy calculator i've discovered that equates to 404 Disposals for 8 goals.

So in comparison to Melbourne the 713 disposals for 7 goals compared to 404 disposals for 8 goals... Shall i go on? Sure why not, i've now decided to compare Chris Grant to Jason Dunstall... Both revered by their respective clubs, both excellent forwards....well maybe.. lets look at the stats shall we..554 goals in 341 games compared to 269 games for 1254 goals.... So i guess Chris Grant was no good either if we keep using this theory...

 

[Claudonious]

terry wallace 1989 - 22 games, 614 touches, 3 goals.....and the best and fairest. cross has never been and will never be a goal kicker. he does what he has always done, he just does'nt have the quality around him he used to.we need experience in our team at the moment, he will play every game.yes, try the youngsters, but they have to earn it and you simply cannot drop all of the experience out of the side, we will be slaughtered every week.

are cross and boyd really the issue? let me answer that - no

 

[crownie]

the lack of respect on this board for the effort the captain gives every week is pathetic.

 

[j0rdy1]

Why do expect either of Boyd/Cross to kick goals? Both of them can't kick straight and one struggles to kick 40 metres. Neither of them are in the team to kick goals as midfielders. Guys like Griffen, Cooney(if he could play midfield), Higgins and Dahlhaus are the mids that should be kicking more goals.

 

[Unnamed1]

I'd like to know how many of the 713 have gone to the opposition, that would be more telling

 

[TMoney22]

Stats like these can be picked out of every team for every situation. Boyd and Cross not kicking goals is the least of our worries. Our whole team can't kick goals. Just another pot shot at them

 

[_Mike_]

I dont think there is any correlation between midfielders and goals as an indicator of making them more efficient or damaging. Truth be told, dominant midfielders who have 30+ posession games are usually on the winning team (with exceptions)

Boyd's 30+ posessions have a minimal impact on the outcomes of our matches this season, added to the point that he doesnt often get tagged, it shows what little respect the opposition have for Boyd.

Boyd can have a 40 posession game, but where his efficiency is 40%, he might aswell not even be out on the park. Cross gets his hands on the ball, sometimes nearly as much as Boyd. But the argument lies within both player's ability to damage the opposition with their disposal. Neither Boyd or Cross have ever been damaging and never will be.

Now that we no longer have Cooney (playing as an effective midfielder), Eagleton, Johnson, Gilbee (is tired & slow) etc both Boyd and Cross have been exposed. Thats where the problem lies within. Griffen plays a lone hand and without the follow up support from Boyd and Cross, we have few options to get the ball through the corridor

 

[josh the gent]

WC: Priddis and Kerr - 10 goals
Hawks - Mitchell and Sewell - 5 goals
Geelong - Corey and Selwood - 11 goals
Adel - Dangerfield and Thompson - 11 goals

The more interesting statistic is the disposal efficiency of each of those players.

I think that for all Boyd's effort and endeavour, having him get so much of our footy probably hurts us cos of his generally poor usage.

I reckon Daniel Cross must just about be finished, Boyd should have his role, and just look to give it off to Griffen, Sherman, etc.

Bring on the end of the season already...

 

[LondonBulldog]

Spot on Mike...its not the players fault....

How long do the dogs persist. Why are we so slow to implement change. Granted we don't have players knocking down the door, yet would be dissapointed to see Cross play another 22 games next year as we will not be progressing as a football club.

 

[Barkly St End]

Boyd and Cross have never been goal kickers - they are extractors.

As others have stated, they aren't getting the support we'd normally expect of a well oiled team - that's where the team is right now.

Nothing we can do about it except keep building.

 

[Dazb86]

It's all well and good for Boyd to be labelled an extractor but if you have a good look at his stats he kicks the ball a fair bit more than he handballs it. His disposal efficiency suffers as a result. I don't think he's playing as an extractor at the moment.

cross at least plays to his limitations and has a 80%+ disposal efficiency (and high handball rate)

 

[Barkly St End]

It's all well and good for Boyd to be labelled an extractor but if you have a good look at his stats he kicks the ball a fair bit more than he handballs it. His disposal efficiency suffers as a result. I don't think he's playing as an extractor at the moment.

cross at least plays to his limitations and has a 80%+ disposal efficiency (and high handball rate)

True enough.

But that comes down to a structural problem and playing personnel.