Mega Thread Brett Ratten

[40yearBLUE]

I think my post indicated that I believe many players aim is to be an AFL player. BUT the club then has to not only develop these players skillsets but also foster team-spirit and pride in performance and that clubs who do not manage this are unlikely to be premiers. This of course is one of the many roles of the coach, his support staff and the recruiting department (they have to find not just talent but a few quality onfield leaders)
A team with with more than one or two of your wishy washy 'lacking intensity when position not under pressure types' (which to tell you the truth, I think is a little bit of overanalysis and excuse making on your part) is unlikely to be winning any grand final

Yep I agree that it is the clubs aim to get the best possible playing list and each year they turn over players in the hope that the next batch is better than the ones they let go. Most players let go are young yet to make any kind of mark players, not the aged past their prime players, probably by a factor of 10 to one. Players like Anderson, Cachia, Austin, Bentley, Pffeifer as examples. Some get another go most dont. So the club is doing exactly as you expect. I disagree with you that a team with more than a few wishy washy players can do or cant do anything. I think every club has them, some they dont even know they have. Some the players themselves dont know. I will give you an example of how difficult it can be to detect. A few weeks ago I saw an interview with 2E. In it he says in his game preparation he writes something on his wrist about a friend who died (suicide) and it grounded him and that it reminds him that its just a job, that there are more important things in life (I believe Judd has said the same). Just a job? Could that not be construed as wishy washyness? I dont say it is. I say its a perfectly healthy attribute, because it is just a job. And I dont think we can question his application can we? But another player that claimed it was just a job could rightly be analysed as being content to have the job and not care too much if they excel at it. Itss an interesting open ended debate though.

 

[JustaBattler]

Heres how it works champ, people like you post utter crap, stuff they believe I am sure but which has no basis in fact and people like me are sick to death of reading it and arc up about it.

Present your facts that clearly show that Malthouse would or even could have straitened Fev out. What are they because he did not straighten too many Pies out in his time, name me one player that was so in awe of him or the meagre penalties the pies handed out that they immediately went straight. I presented you the players that did not, 1 Shaw brother at another club, Tarrant sent away to straigten out, Another Shaw twice suspeneded by the club over off field behaviour etc.

And regarding Fev, we improved as a team both on and off the field the moment the club sacked him, but lets concentrate on what I can prove, our forward line was one dimensional and worked when Fev decided he wanted it to. Last year we proved that we were a far better team all over the ground with Fev off it.

Report me or not mate I dont give a flyer, just dont post bullshit, just post facts and you wont get sarcasm thrown at you as a result.

Again you fail to read what was written. since reading what was written doesn't suit your rant. I do agree with one thing you put - and that is that CFC is better off without Fevola.

If you had bothered to read my post - you would have known this - however clearly you read what you wish and say what you wish - that is your entitlement 'champ'.

Have a nice day - I get the feeling all is not well with you and I hope things improve .

 

[bourbons]

You are a broken record, the injuries at Collingwood and WEagles are not the equivilant of ours (Although Collingwood is close), our whole spine and their support cast has been injured and most of their depth too. .. Just because most (stilll missing a KPF option) are back playing doesn't discount that the injuries cause them to be starting from a long way back. .. I think you should take the blinkers off and actually take a non-biased look at reality. ..

Not saying we haven't under performed, particularly against Saint, Adelaide and Port but I'm not being unrealistic about the affect of injuries. ..

You have to be joking.. pies & WC injury list easily as bad or worse than ours over the course of the season (sorry to single out, I know you're not the only one who has mentioned it).

No one's saying injuries don't have an impact, they do, but they do not explain some performances this year (getting flogged by Port Adelaide comes to mind) and they sure as hell aren't an excuse for being 1 win ahead of the Western f***ing Bulldogs past the halfway point of the season. For the injuries we've had to cause that much of a problem.. something else is wrong, fairly obvious I would have thought. A few important players go down and we collectively shit the bed - that is simply not good enough in modern day footy.

At this point, very little faith in either the coach or the playing group. But hopefully I'm wrong and they can turn it around, at least there's been some good signs in the last few weeks.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Again you fail to read what was written. since reading what was written doesn't suit your rant. I do agree with one thing you put - and that is that CFC is better off without Fevola.

If you had bothered to read my post - you would have known this - however clearly you read what you wish and say what you wish - that is your entitlement 'champ'.

Have a nice day - I get the feeling all is not well with you and I hope things improve .

Here is exactly what you wrote, copied and pasted:

CFC would be a top4 side with Fevola in it. Malthouse could probably have fixed the Fev and at the same time got an alternative in place - that is just how good he is. Fev like it or not is a major failure of management for the Club......

Lets dissect the bullshit piece by piece and once and for all. I have read what you wrote, placed my argument to your drivel and you in turn post more drivel.

CFC would be a top 4 side with Fev in it. On what basis can you possibly assert this. Where is your evidence, because when Fev was in the CFC we were not a top 4 team, in fact Fev has never been part of ANY top 4 team. Its true he was on the list in 99-01 when we finished top 4 but he was not part of the best 22 yet. So again, on what basis do you assert that had Fev still been a Blue we would be top 4 now or at any other time? (and during your hole digging exercises I assume you to be discontent we are not top 4, you think we would be with Fev in the team but agree we are better off without him? Bizarre line of reasoning.)

Malthouse could probably have fixed Fev. Again, where is your evidence? Others did not fix Fev as pointed out to you by another poster, even Sheedy couldnt. And I pointed out to you that under Malthouse as coach, Collingwood has even more player scandal than we had, so again on what basis can you possibly make Claim that where others failed Malthouse would not have? And what possible relevance, albeit again totally unfounded, could it be that Malthouse would have got an alternative in place?

Fev like it or not is a major failure to himself. It may also be true the club failed him, by not sacking him 10 years ago. Perhaps. But it is not a failure of the club in isolation and no basis for criticism of the fact he is no longer at the club. You agree he ought not be, so why would you post otherwise. Either you believe it or you dont. And if you dont, then you erred in your original posting that started this tet-a-tet and instead of acknowledging you chose to dig.

 

[bourbons]

One more thing...
I am pretty sick of the media going on about Ratts barracking.
They show the same 30 second clip of him over and over again... the one with him clapping, clasping, grimacing, yelling etc.
They gathered 30 seconds of footage from half a year of coaching and we're meant to think that this is somehow representative of his demeanour. What BS.
Why not sure the full footage of him ... all 20 hours and see how much time he spends carrying on. Of course they won't. It's boring - and it would completely destroy their non-story.

Disagree mate. Happens way more than that - the games that I watch on TV, there's usually at least one instance of unprofessional body language from him, good or bad, every game. Not talking about the occasional fist pump or grimace - I'm talking the stuff you would not see from any other coach in the league.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Disagree mate. Happens way more than that - the games that I watch on TV, there's usually at least one instance of unprofessional body language from him, good or bad, every game. Not talking about the occasional fist pump or grimace - I'm talking the stuff you would not see from any other coach in the league.

What rubbish. All coaches do it. ALL OF THEM. That you dont see it speaks to your preconceived and selective visions. You see what reinforces the beliefs you already hold. Why not just say, he does it a lot and I dont like it. And what is so unprofessional about it. Its not Poker tour. I remember Parkin would burst veins in his neck.

 

[JustaBattler]

THIS BELOW is my original post - context being Ratten as a Coach. I provided the criteria for my assessment.

Big Games: Ratts has question marks over his during a game coaching ability - because we lost to Brisbane giving up a huge lead, this has stuck. Sydney wasn't much better. Against this - Last year smashing Essendon and nearly knocking off WC at home brings him back to square - but doubts linger about big matches in finals.
Players: CFC would be a top4 side with Fevola in it. Malthouse could probably have fixed the Fev and at the same time got an alternative in place - that is just how good he is. Fev like it or not is a major failure of management for the Club - because freaks like Fevola are rare. Such a tragedy for CFC. Against this: making the hard decision when forced to by players AND re-engineering into the most exciting attacking team in the competition
Team Playing Style: developing an alternative multi faceted points scoring machine via the Amigos and Walker last year was a strategic masterstroke. Other teams are now copying a lot of CFC attacking strategies via smalls - Saints used our game plan against us this year. So Ratten has shown he can develop an attacking structure - sans Fevola. Something Malthouse/Lyon/Thompson/ etc have never had to do so can't be measured against.
Depth: Hampered by effectively no drafts for two years- same a every other Club; however Laidler/Duigan major wins; Injuries to developing VFL talls and in particular Rowe (sicknes) this year have cruelled him for choice. Rowe was very highly rated and set to play a big part for us this year ala Laidler/Duigan. Also - re-engineering Henderson into our best defender last year- fantastic achievement. Re-engineering Walker into a potent goal kicking machine - fantastic. Shifting Yarran into HB and watching him become (at his best) the most potent counter attacking running/kicking player in AFL - fantastic.
Managing Pressure: Ratts has had the bunsen burner on him for two months now - and had no cattle or reserves to draw on. Simply put - injuries have stuffed him and CFC.
Unique Qualities: Ratten is a genuine 100% CFC champion an insider who if survives the current shit situation - could end up coaching for many many years and unliek al teh other bitch Clubs who hire outsiders - sets up a genuine organic 100% Carlton Club Culture and situation.

Not interested in passing judgement on Ratten until we have at least a season with him coaching a list with 30 fit players to choose from. Malthouse and Ross would be licking their lips at the prospect of being handed big bucks to coach at CFC - they know exactly how good our fit list is. Don't want either of them - they would change what has been developed back into something that everyone else is doing. Some of our favourite players would not survive a Malthouse /Roos purge.[/quote]



There is a lot of noise about replacing Ratten. I tried to show from my perspective the things that Ratten has been criticised for and the things that I beleive he has achieved.

YOU are making a big deal about Fevola - OUT OF CONTEXT - whiulst IGNORING the POINT of my post.

IF you had the courtesy to read what was written you would apologise for your crude and unbecoming behaviourand totally unwarranted ranting at myself.

Yet again you just show you are another rude person typing rants behind a keybopard.

 

[40yearBLUE]

THIS BELOW is my original post - context being Ratten as a Coach. I provided the criteria for my assessment.


There is a lot of noise about replacing Ratten. I tried to show from my perspective the things that Ratten has been criticised for and the things that I beleive he has achieved.

YOU are making a big deal about Fevola - OUT OF CONTEXT - whiulst IGNORING the POINT of my post.

IF you had the courtesy to read what was written you would apologise for your crude and unbecoming behaviourand totally unwarranted ranting at myself.

Yet again you just show you are another rude person typing rants behind a keybopard.

Dude, you cannot make unsubstantiated comments especially if they are likely to be false anyway, even if you then go on to use them to make a different point. They are wrong in and of themselves, therefore anything else that follows is based on a false premise and regardless of the veracity of the merit of those following points they are left useless because they are based on the false premise. I dont care that you go on to praise Ratts, the fact you base that praise on a false premise renders it moot.
There is no OUT OF CONTEXT. If you make a claim you MUST be able to substantiate it. If you cannot then dont post it.

 

[bourbons]

What rubbish. All coaches do it. ALL OF THEM. That you dont see it speaks to your preconceived and selective visions. You see what reinforces the beliefs you already hold. Why not just say, he does it a lot and I dont like it. And what is so unprofessional about it. Its not Poker tour. I remember Parkin would burst veins in his neck.

Rubbish? Lol. All coaches react, but not to the level that Rats does. I have never, ever, seen Scott out of his chair yelling 'Go Cats', or Worsfold out of his chair yelling 'Go Eagles', or actually any coach yelling 'Go [insert moniker here]'. Ratts does it regularly. Likewise when things aren't going well, his body language is very poor - perfect example round 1 this year when Richmond were making their run (also round 1 last year when they hit the front just before 3 quarter time), cut to Rats on the bench; elbows on knees, head buried in hands. Come on, when have you ever seen that from another coach?

Please don't tell me what I see and what I don't

 

[40yearBLUE]

Rubbish? Lol. All coaches react, but not to the level that Rats does. I have never, ever, seen Scott out of his chair yelling 'Go Cats', or Worsfold out of his chair yelling 'Go Eagles', or actually any coach yelling 'Go [insert moniker here]'. Ratts does it regularly. Likewise when things aren't going well, his body language is very poor - perfect example round 1 this year when Richmond were making their run (also round 1 last year when they hit the front just before 3 quarter time), cut to Rats on the bench; elbows on knees, head buried in hands. Come on, when have you ever seen that from another coach?

Please don't tell me what I see and what I don't

Likewise mate. I know what I see, both in Ratts and in your post. Rest of post utter twaddle. Post video of Ratts calling out Go Blues on a regular basis (so in other words more than once!). Total fabrication, no doubt you have deluded yourself into believing its true but that dont make it so.

 

[Silvagnis]

Disagree mate. Happens way more than that - the games that I watch on TV, there's usually at least one instance of unprofessional body language from him, good or bad, every game. Not talking about the occasional fist pump or grimace - I'm talking the stuff you would not see from any other coach in the league.

What does it have to do with Ratten's ability to coach?

Did you see Carlton play when Parkin was coach?

Parko's jugular would sell to John Holmes size when we weren't going well and he was angry.

Parkin once gestured at the break that the players need to run by simulating running with a series of knee lifts.

Muppets like Mark Robinson would probably criticise it today.

Thompson and Eade didn't think much of the criticism of the judgement of Ratten's reaction. Everyone does it, but they're usually in the coaches box and out of sight.

 

[bourbons]

Likewise mate. I know what I see, both in Ratts and in your post. Rest of post utter twaddle. Post video of Ratts calling out Go Blues on a regular basis (so in other words more than once!). Total fabrication, no doubt you have deluded yourself into believing its true but that dont make it so.

Oh ok, we both know what we see but I'm wrong and you're right, gotcha. Strong rebuttal there.

PS post video of any other coach yelling 'Go whoever'. If you are denying that Ratten has done this regularly, well, that is the very definition of seeing (or not seeing) what you want to.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Oh ok, we both know what we see but I'm wrong and you're right, gotcha. Strong rebuttal there.

PS post video of any other coach yelling 'Go whoever'. If you are denying that Ratten has done this regularly, well, that is the very definition of seeing (or not seeing) what you want to.

I just proclaimed in another thread that the quality of posters here is that of mental pygmies and your post is the next up. What a surprise.

I dont believe that any coach jumps up and down yelling go........insert their club.......any more than I believe Ratts does. Do I believe that ALL coaches allow emotions to show in various forms, of course. They always have and always will. That is until the RoboRoos 2.0 is released.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Disagree mate. Happens way more than that - the games that I watch on TV, there's usually at least one instance of unprofessional body language from him, good or bad, every game. Not talking about the occasional fist pump or grimace - I'm talking the stuff you would not see from any other coach in the league.

If it happens more than that, why is the same footage shown over and over again? Look at the footage and you'll see it's selected from different games. They could string the same sequence together for Buckley - by his own admission a white line fever coach in the box - but they don't because the Pies are travelling well. And that's just it - stuff gets scrutinised in relation to coaches under the pump when coaches who are flying do the very same thing and are not mentioned at all.

Bomber Thompson and Rocket Eade both said this week that every coach does it.

 

[bourbons]

What does it have to do with Ratten's ability to coach?

Did you see Carlton play when Parkin was coach?

Parko's jugular would sell to John Holmes size when we weren't going well and he was angry.

Parkin once gestured at the break that the players need to run by simulating running with a series of knee lifts.

Muppets like Mark Robinson would probably criticise it today.

Thompson and Eade didn't think much of the criticism of the judgement of Ratten's reaction. Everyone does it, but they're usually in the coaches box and out of sight.

I would kill for some reaction from Ratts that was more like Parko's. Being animated, yelling, hell even smashing a phone or 2, no problem. What I don't want to see is him sitting on the bench with his head in his hands, pretty sure Parko never did that.

Likewise when we're up and going; call me crazy but I want to see the coach coach, not barrack. It comes accross as unprofessional, and I repeat; outside of winning finals etc, pretty sure I've never seen that level of reaction from any other coach, ever.

What does it have to do with his ability to coach? It indicates to me that he is too emotional about it. I know all coaches are hugely emotionally invested in their team, but most manage to keep that in check better than Rats does. I worry about someone's ability to analyse and make cool, calm, calculated decisions when they are displaying that type of mindset.

Not too outrageous an opinion I would have thought.

 

[Claypigeon]

You have to be joking.. pies & WC injury list easily as bad or worse than ours over the course of the season (sorry to single out, I know you're not the only one who has mentioned it).

No one's saying injuries don't have an impact, they do, but they do not explain some performances this year (getting flogged by Port Adelaide comes to mind) and they sure as hell aren't an excuse for being 1 win ahead of the Western f***ing Bulldogs past the halfway point of the season. For the injuries we've had to cause that much of a problem.. something else is wrong, fairly obvious I would have thought. A few important players go down and we collectively shit the bed - that is simply not good enough in modern day footy.

At this point, very little faith in either the coach or the playing group. But hopefully I'm wrong and they can turn it around, at least there's been some good signs in the last few weeks.

Would like to see some stats to back this up. .. I'm aware that Collingwood have had some hits to their spine, especially in defense and some midfield issues, which is why I said it was close. .. but have they had the same hit to their depth at the same time. ..

Consider this list of all our players above 189cm and tell me that Collingwood and WCE are as bad as this using facts. .. Potential Best22 in bold. ..
NameHeight
Warnock, Robert206cm - Injured/No pre-season, late start to the year
Hampson, Shaun201cm - Fine
Kreuzer, Matthew200cm - Carrying an niggle (good form early)
Casboult, Levi198cm - Long term injury
Mitchell, Luke198cm - Long term injury
Rowe, Sam198cm - Illness, Long term
McCarthy, Patrick196cm - Fine
Henderson, Lachlan196cm - Started well, coming back from injury
Watson, Matthew195cm - Fine, in the side now
Waite, Jarrad194cm - Long term injury
Jamison, Michael193cm - Injured Little/No preseason, late start to the year
Thornton, Bret192cm - Injured
Bower, Paul192cm - Fine
Bray, Blake (R)191cm - Injured
McInnes, Andrew191cm - Fine
White, Simon190cm - Long term injury
Bootsma, Joshua190cm - Fine
Walker, Andrew190cm - Injured Little/No preseason, late start to the year
Laidler, Jeremy189cm - Long Term injury plus pre-season injury
Judd, Chris189cm - Carrying a niggle
Davies, Marcus188cm Long term injured

Add to this: Murphy, Scotland and Carrazzo. ..

 

[bourbons]

I just proclaimed in another thread that the quality of posters here is that of mental pygmies and your post is the next up. What a surprise.

I dont believe that any coach jumps up and down yelling go........insert their club.......any more than I believe Ratts does. Do I believe that ALL coaches allow emotions to show in various forms, of course. They always have and always will. That is until the RoboRoos 2.0 is released.

Any chance of a post from you without a sly insult? Mental pygmy indeed, lol

Serious question, not having a go here - do you attend most games live? Because obviously its the sort of thing your're only going to see if you're watching the broadcast. Like I said, in this specific example, if you're convinced he has never yelled 'Go Blues', not much point in debating it further.

 

[Claypigeon]

I would kill for some reaction from Ratts that was more like Parko's. Being animated, yelling, hell even smashing a phone or 2, no problem. What I don't want to see is him sitting on the bench with his head in his hands, pretty sure Parko never did that.

Likewise when we're up and going; call me crazy but I want to see the coach coach, not barrack. It comes accross as unprofessional, and I repeat; outside of winning finals etc, pretty sure I've never seen that level of reaction from any other coach, ever.

What does it have to do with his ability to coach? It indicates to me that he is too emotional about it. I know all coaches are hugely emotionally invested in their team, but most manage to keep that in check better than Rats does. I worry about someone's ability to analyse and make cool, calm, calculated decisions when they are displaying that type of mindset.

Not too outrageous an opinion I would have thought.

So smashing a phone and yelling is ok but barracking is too emotional. .. I'd call the former an anger management issue and the latter a positive emotion. ..

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Rubbish? Lol. All coaches react, but not to the level that Rats does. I have never, ever, seen Scott out of his chair yelling 'Go Cats', or Worsfold out of his chair yelling 'Go Eagles', or actually any coach yelling 'Go [insert moniker here]'.

I'm happy with all that but do believe that wearing his beanie, scarf and duffle coat with Number 5 on the back is just taking things too far !!


.... also, waiting for the players after the game for autographs - that's just weird.

 

[Aphrodite]

This thread has really gone off the rails and turned into a slanging match and personal attacks.

We're done !!!!