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Brian Lara, How Good Was He?

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JackOutback said:
I tend to think if two players achieved similar results and one had more 'natural talent' then the other guy is probably better. To achieve the same results with less in the arsenal is a sign of a great cricketer. Not rating Waugh ahead of Lara, but I have him ahead of guys like Ponting and Clarke.
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Border was a better player than Steve Waugh for mine. He was probably less naturally talented than Waugh (although too much is made of his being a battler, you don't score 11,000+ runs without some serious skills too) but he excelled against all types of bowling in all sorts of conditions (he actually average far better overseas than in OZ). Border also played a huge amount of match saving and rear guard innings out of necessity as he was the only genuinely elite batsman during the nadir of Australian cricket. Waugh was around in the bad days too but was more of a handy all rounder at that point and only became a genuine quality batsman in 1989 when the renaissance of Australian cricket truly began.
 
Royal Flash said:
Border was a better player than Steve Waugh for mine. He was probably less naturally talented than Waugh (although too much is made of his being a battler, you don't score 11,000+ runs without some serious skills too) but he excelled against all types of bowling in all sorts of conditions (he actually average far better overseas than in OZ). Border also played a huge amount of match saving and rear guard innings out of necessity as he was the only genuinely elite batsman during the nadir of Australian cricket. Waugh was around in the bad days too but was more of a handy all rounder at that point and only became a genuine quality batsman in 1989 when the renaissance of Australian cricket truly began.
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AB is my all time hero, took the side from nothing, and paved the way for pretty much all the success that has followed since his retirement. He created the culture of the modern Australian cricket team. If you talk about runs against shit attacks, AB scored a lot of his against the most fearsome attack that we have ever seen.
 

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Gough said:
AB is my all time hero, took the side from nothing, and paved the way for pretty much all the success that has followed since his retirement. He created the culture of the modern Australian cricket team. If you talk about runs against shit attacks, AB scored a lot of his against the most fearsome attack that we have ever seen.
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I mentioned in a different thread how I used to set my alarm for about 4:00AM to listen to the ABC coverage of the 1983/84 WI tour, the absolute low point of cricket in my lifetime. I did this largely because of AB; since his debut during the Packer turmoil I was fixated on his batting, and listening to him nearing his 100* in Trinidad was amazing.
 
Border was a champion. Scored runs against everyone, everywhere, brilliant field, very handy spinner and dragged australian cricket off rock bottom as a hard-arse, no bullshit captain.

No where near as easy on the eye as Lara but suffers very little in comparison otherwise. Great player of spin aswell and whilst not tearing attacks apart as such he had the all time greT bowlers tearing their own hair out instead.

The forgotton man is border sometimes but was the absolute antithesis of a flat-track bully.
 
imadodgyumpire said:
I don't know how to articulate it. There's something about showing a high level of talent as a youngster. Even before you start playing tests. It took a while for Steve Waugh to elevate himself to the top echelon. Ponting could've played for Australia at 14. Clarke is not in the conversation afaik.
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Wasn't Waugh in the test team at 19?

Amazing talent and an absolute dasher as a youngster. A real cavalier batter.

It was only as his career went on that he got more disciplined, selective about the shots he played and learned to reel in his game to a safe level.
 
One thing is for sure, when Lara was in full flight, fielding in the covers or around point would have been genuinely scary.

Considering the situation of where WI were at the time and the quality of opposition they were facing*, you can argue that his 1999 series against us is right up there among the best batting performances in a series ever.

*admittedly Warne was struggling post-op at the time.
 
Doss said:
One thing is for sure, when Lara was in full flight, fielding in the covers or around point would have been genuinely scary.

Considering the situation of where WI were at the time and the quality of opposition they were facing*, you can argue that his 1999 series against us is right up there among the best batting performances in a series ever.

*admittedly Warne was struggling post-op at the time.
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Didn't Warney strain a heart muscle on that tour?
 

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STFU Donnie said:
He left him out of his best Australian XI. Carries a grudge well, does old SKW.
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Being the best spinner ever doesn't preclude one from being a flog.
 
La Vache said:
Border was a champion. Scored runs against everyone, everywhere, brilliant field, very handy spinner and dragged australian cricket off rock bottom as a hard-arse, no bullshit captain.

No where near as easy on the eye as Lara but suffers very little in comparison otherwise. Great player of spin aswell and whilst not tearing attacks apart as such he had the all time greT bowlers tearing their own hair out instead.

The forgotton man is border sometimes but was the absolute antithesis of a flat-track bully.
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I know we're talking about batting, but AB was a fantastic cover fielder in ODI cricket. Hit the stumps more often than anyone I can remember.
 
Royal Flash said:
Border was a better player than Steve Waugh for mine. He was probably less naturally talented than Waugh (although too much is made of his being a battler, you don't score 11,000+ runs without some serious skills too) but he excelled against all types of bowling in all sorts of conditions (he actually average far better overseas than in OZ). Border also played a huge amount of match saving and rear guard innings out of necessity as he was the only genuinely elite batsman during the nadir of Australian cricket. Waugh was around in the bad days too but was more of a handy all rounder at that point and only became a genuine quality batsman in 1989 when the renaissance of Australian cricket truly began.
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Definitely happy for AB to be in the convo, I just saw more of Waugh (saw AB as well but was pretty young when he was at his best).
 
It was interesting what S.Waugh wrote about Lara.

If I remember rightly, it was roughly along the lines of "he was a good player of average bowling and a great player of good bowling. When backed into the corner by the quality of opposition or his own brinkmanship, he elevated himself into a genius".

Says it all really.
 

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It would take a very unique and special sort of player to knock Lara off his perch for me.

AB De Villiers might come closest of the modern players and maybe KP in a different way too, although of course I appreciated the pure quality of the likes of Ponting, Tendulkar (who I never actually rated as being especially interesting to watch, just ****ing good), Sangakarra, Clarke and Dravid.

But there was something about Lara, something about the flourishing backlift, the fiery temperament, the fact he was a one-man band for two-thirds of his career, how hard he hit the ball...it was just the pure package for mine and I doubt it will be replicated easily.
 
Doss said:
But there was something about Lara, something about the flourishing backlift, the fiery temperament, the fact he was a one-man band for two-thirds of his career, how hard he hit the ball...it was just the pure package for mine and I doubt it will be replicated easily.
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I think it was the same for me.

Lara looked more stylish and he was just far better to watch.
 
Lara was the most aesthetically pleasing batsman to my palate that I've seen in the past 20 years. The backlift, the flourish, the footwork, the brilliance made him very, very special to watch for me personally (David Gower was my all time favourite to watch and Mark Waugh was up there but they weren't quite at Lara's level as players though I often wonder whether Gower short changed us and himself with his output in relation to his ability).

Averages and stats tell a story but not the whole story which is why to me Lara was the best batsman of his generation.
 
Royal Flash said:
Lara was the most aesthetically pleasing batsman to my palate that I've seen in the past 20 years. The backlift, the flourish, the footwork, the brilliance made him very, very special to watch for me personally (David Gower was my all time favourite to watch and Mark Waugh was up there but they weren't quite at Lara's level as players though I often wonder whether Gower short changed us and himself with his output in relation to his ability).

Averages and stats tell a story but not the whole story which is why to me Lara was the best batsman of his generation.
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The same could probably be said of Mark Waugh as David Gower.
 
They were joshing Mark Waugh about not having scored a double century when Gillespie has tonight. Waugh commented that he never played against Bangladesh but the conceded he would have got 120, and then hit it to a fielder.
 

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Brian Lara, How Good Was He?

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