Bring back CC!

[chook2734]

Re: Outcoached

Apart from the fact that it is 11 weeks I agree chook.

Harve's should drop all those that went on strike today, regardless of reputation.

Those 7 weeks last year don't count for mine Rip. Harvey basically continued on with what Connolly had been doing - he was coach, but it wasn't his team. Let him have a fresh start from round 1 and judge him on that. (not yet though, obviously)

In my post match disappointment, I'd love to see him swing the axe, but by my reckoning, we'd only have Pav, Mayne and Solly out there next week if we picked those who appeared interested, so I'm not sure where we can find another 19 on such short notice.

 

[dominguez]

Mundy, Peake have got to go, as soon as a Tiger got more than one step away from Mundy, he gave up. Peake, I'm not sure he can see straight, he certainly can't kick, or handball straight.

Soft outside front running receivers. Bring them in if we win 3 games in a row but until then we can't afford any passengers.

Peake couldn't tackle a 70 year old woman on valium needing a hip replacement.

Mundy is just plain embarrassing.

 

[dominguez]

Motley in the sense that they think they are better than they are.

The tail is still wagging the dog IMO.

Mark it down - M Carr & Macca will be in's next week.

If they are not expect another big campaign to get them in.

You heard it first here.

A big campaign from whom?

 

[Ripper]

Re: Outcoached

Those 7 weeks last year don't count for mine Rip. Harvey basically continued on with what Connolly had been doing - he was coach, but it wasn't his team. Let him have a fresh start from round 1 and judge him on that. (not yet though, obviously)

In my post match disappointment, I'd love to see him swing the axe, but by my reckoning, we'd only have Pav, Mayne and Solly out there next week if we picked those who appeared interested, so I'm not sure where we can find another 19 on such short notice.

If that's the case they are seven wasted weeks, that could have been used to give Ibbo , Drum , Brock more games.

I am starting to calm down , I am right behind the Coach and team , it is just that some Freo "supporters" are pissing me off at the moment as I actually saw this coming, but the simplistic view was to give the players an out by blaming the coach.

 

[Sman-21]

Harvey wasnt outcoached our players just didnt give a stuff thought they could turn up an the game was won.

Doesnt work like that u still need to do the little things like chase hard,hold tackles not fumble the ball, man the **** up. etc

Typical of freo an especially after a derby lose a game noone expects us to lose.

Its all in their damn heads

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

Lol. You were wrong Dom, just like the Geelong supporters were calling for Bomber Thompson's head at the start of 2007 were.

Haha, how long are the Connolly Chronies going to hang their hat on the Geelong revival? For every coach that turns it round like Bomber Thompson there is a coach like Danny Frawley who history judges as a massive loser who managed to make a prelim.

Were You were one of the ones jeering Tarrant today?

I didn't hear any jeering of Tarrant Today, but there was some anger after he gave away 50 and rightly so.

 

[chook2734]

Re: Outcoached

If that's the case they are seven wasted weeks, that could have been used to give Ibbo , Drum , Brock more games.

I am starting to calm down , I am right behind the Coach and team , it is just that some Freo "supporters" are pissing me off at the moment as I actually saw this coming, but the simplistic view was to give the players an out by blaming the coach.

Rip, I was a big supporter of CC too, but by the time he left last year, we were going nowhere fast. You and I know the outside pressures probably forced his and the club's hand, but it's easier to sack the coach than it is to find a whole new list. We also know that too many of our players either aren't good enough, or don't want it enough to take us to a flag.

In all reality, if we are going to have a bad year, this may be the one to do it. The AFL are going to be skimming the cream of the talent in the next couple of years for the two new teams. We need to get our hands on some while we still can.

ETA : 7 weeks wasted, yes, but they only added to the 15 before them didn't they? This may also have been a bit of Harvs downfall too - the usual suspects realised they had to give their all or they'd be on the chopping block. They stepped up when they had to for their own survival, and now they've gone back to their same old ways.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

You on the piss again dom?

Nah mate, I just took the scenic route home. That's why there is 3 hours between the final siren and my first post.

 

[Ripper]

Re: Outcoached

Haha, how long are the Connolly Chronies going to hang their hat on the Geelong revival? For every coach that turns it round like Bomber Thompson there is a coach like Danny Frawley who history judges as a massive loser who managed to make a prelim.

I have already said what is done is done. I am trying to educate the supporters not to repeat the dose to Harve's.

It is all to easy to blame the coach and while ever We do that it will give the players an easy out.

I didn't hear any jeering of Tarrant Today, but there was some anger after he gave away 50 and rightly so.

Watch the replay.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

What is Harves excuse than?

The difference is that Harvey did it for one game. Boo-friggin-hoo.

When Kepler starts getting a regular game to justify his recruitment like Schofield did then you can be critical of Harvey for going down the same path as Connolly. Although I'm sure if Bradley is selected it wil lbe the decision of the coaching staff, not the CEO.

 

[chook2734]

Re: Outcoached

The difference is that Harvey did it for one game. Boo-friggin-hoo.

When Kepler starts getting a regular game to justify his recruitment like Schofield did then you can be critical of Harvey for going down the same path as Connolly. Although I'm sure if Bradley is selected it wil lbe the decision of the coaching staff, not the CEO.

Might be sooner than you think dom.

Kep apparently was better than both Murph and Kiwi yesterday. If he's willing to give it 100%, he'd be better than most of the 22 out there today.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

I am starting to calm down , I am right behind the Coach and team , it is just that some Freo "supporters" are pissing me off at the moment as I actually saw this coming, but the simplistic view was to give the players an out by blaming the coach.

That's fair enough, but by placing the blame squarely on the players you are giving Connolly an easy out.

How many of the guys who regularly go missing were on the list in 2001? It's Connolly's list, anyone who he felt he couldn't get the best out of should have been moved on. Our big name trades are quite often the worst offenders, if that isn't Connolly/Schwab's fault then I don't know what is.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

Watch the replay.

Thankfully I forgot to tape today's game.


But on Tarrant, there is always going to be added pressure on a big name signing. Chad Fletcher and Tarrant would probably be on similar money, but because Tarrant has been brought in he is under more pressure than Fletcher who is, and has always been, a west coast player. Bewfore Schwab the Knob and Kaka Connolly went after a big name signing they should have put more thought into the personality and the mental aptitute of the player in question. It's just common sense, especially when you are trading early picks in 2001 and 2006, the two strongest drafts since the inception of the drafting system.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

Might be sooner than you think dom.

Kep apparently was better than both Murph and Kiwi yesterday. If he's willing to give it 100%, he'd be better than most of the 22 out there today.

That's fair enough. But if Kepler is struggling at WAFL level like Schofield did then gets an AFL call up the critics will be lining up and rightly so. The fact is that Mark Johnson's pre-season form was good.

 

[Ripper]

Re: Outcoached

The difference is that Harvey did it for one game. Boo-friggin-hoo.

When Kepler starts getting a regular game to justify his recruitment like Schofield did then you can be critical of Harvey for going down the same path as Connolly. Although I'm sure if Bradley is selected it wil lbe the decision of the coaching staff, not the CEO.

Try 8 games.

The way you go on anyone would think that CC never blooded any new players.

Round 1 2002
Medhurst , Polak , Siegert

Round 1 2003
Andrew Browne
Aaron Sandilands
Daniel Haines
Byron Schammer

Round 1 2004
Ryley Dunn
Daniel Gilmore

Round 1 2005
Ryan Murphey (2 games)
Steven Dodd (2 games)

Round 1 2006
Michael Johnson (11 games)

Round 1 2007
Paul Duffield (7 games)

Harve's was obviously convinced that the round 1 team this year was actually better than it was.

I don't understand your hangup about Schofield as He was obviously recruited (with a PSD pick) to bolster the midfield which everyone agrees needed bolstering then and still does now.

Before we picked him up He at least had immaculate disposal.
It didn't work but cost us nothing.

Not one of your better arguments.

 

[dominguez]

Mundy has immaculate disposal too. Not much chance of our only real ball winner, Paul Hasleby, feeding the ball out to him this season though.

Fair call on the tail end of last season, but who are the midfielders who Harvey failed to select when Cook, Walker and Macca were getting a game? Ibbo looks soft as butter. Brock seems to have all the tools, but was his form for Peel outstanding late in the year? Foster got a few games, as did Drum so no problem there. There would have been more young mids to pick from if Connolly/Schwab didn't trade so many picks and if Smart didn't pick so many flankers.

Of the 13 young guns you have listed Browne and Schammer are the only two genuine midfielders in that group, and one was pick 50 odd. If Connolly had told Schwab to butt the f*** out and had told Maxwell Smart to draft midfielderds, midfielders and more midfielders he'd have a lot more respect and we wouldn't be in our current predicament.

 

[pinkus maximus]

take a step backwards...
stupid thread.. invites trolls

thread title is a joke... i thought it was obvious

i jumped off the cc bandwagon a few years ago

 

[eminbee]

Comments from an outsider who was at the game, and will be again in 2 weeks. Meant constructively, as I have respect for FFC since the last Fitzroy game.
It's the coach AND the players!
The Coach:
1. Must have a game plan and this is something that hasn't changed since Chris Connolly - there still isn't one. With the exception of WC games, where you seem to move the ball with purpose, you let the opposition dictate the way the game is to be played.
Perfect example today - where Richmond predictably played their short attacking game that no-one else let's them get away with because they don't have the disposal skills to do it well enough under pressure. And what do Freo do? Apply no pressure when Tigers have the ball, and turn it over when you actually do have it.
2. Must get the match-ups right - if they're not working, change them.
Grover tries hard and does very well but you cannot expect him to hold down a player of Richo's size, strength, marking power AND mobility. If you don't start him there, at least get McPharlin back as soon as Richo firing.
Did Nathan Foley even have a match-up for most of the game?
What was Des Headland's problem today? Every week, what are his instructions for when the other side's got the footy?
Josh Carr?
Who was responsible for Kane Johnson?
(I could say plenty more!)

The players:
1. There's still one fundamental thing about this game that hasn't changed since 1858 (or earlier, if Marn Grook theories are correct).
And that is, get your hands on it.
Occasionally, you'll get a day out where the opposition doesn't turn up and you can play lovely-uncontested- "let's-keep-possession"-BORING footy.
But often, the only way to get the footy is to actually put your head down over it to pick it up. If the other side is intent on doing the same thing, you've just got to put your head over it first.
Didn't happen today. Doesn't happen enough most weeks. Left to too few. There are occasions when every player has to go - in this squad, some just don't. You know who they are.
Compare that to Richo - last quarter, defensive Roberts Rd side pocket and game won. He wasn't worrying about winning the game - he just wanted to win that contest - even when it didn't matter.
2. Next point (and it's not independent of the "coach's game plan" point above). There might be more than one way to play successful footy at Subiaco - but they will all have something in common. You must RUN. Particularly, you must have run and carry. Force the other side to scramble for position. But not so your own side doesn't know what's happening. It helps if you've got someone to run and carry who can actually think a few steps ahead. That is, be creative.
I'm not sure Brett Peake is one of those players, but he's played so little footy for a long time that might be an unfair call.

 

[estibador]

^^^Holy shit - a Geelong supporter who actually knows what he is talking about and isn't just an arrogant bandwagoner who wants to rub everyone's nose in it about how good his team is all of a sudden.

I especially liked this bit:

But often, the only way to get the footy is to actually put your head down over it to pick it up. If the other side is intent on doing the same thing, you've just got to put your head over it first.

Kudos eminbee.

 

[brose]

2005

we lack pacy, hard running, skillfull midfielders.

recruit solomon, tarrant, mark johnson, kepler bradley

2008

we lack pacy, hard running, skillfull midfielders

with bell set to retire and haze to be coming back from injury i wouldn't be expecting much for 2-3 years and its not mark harveys fault. he needs to learn and improve just as much as everyone else though.

 

[Lach72]

What do you think Palmer and Hinkley are?

 

[kidstyler]

im surprised ripper didn’t have a stat to back up his love for CC!

the only difference if CC was here instead of harvs now is:

the back page of 'the game' woulda had the words "journey and innuendo" multiple times!

 

[dockertor]

All the CC haters will turn on harves soon and white ant him as well. Learn from your mistakes people and support the coach

 

[kidstyler]

All the CC haters will turn on harves soon and white ant him as well. Learn from your mistakes people and support the coach

please its beyond obvious this is a player problem and we are going to have to give harvs the time to rebuild!

our window with CC was short but we had our chance and pissed it up against the wall in Sydney!

this side might have to start training at Rick Harts farm!

 

[theGav56]

That may be the case, but CC was wholly responsible for the playing list after a few years. Harvey might be able to argue he hasn't got the cattle, but CC could hardly do that given he picked the cattle.

I actually have more faith in the playing list than you do. Apart from the midfield which is drastically needing Hasleby, plus the renovations we have all been aware of. That is not to say that it is not flawed, but it is definitely capable of better performances than we saw yesterday. And it is not that long ago that our list was talked about in glowing terms.

The other thing that I would be certain of is that Harvey would have played a significant role in getting Tarrant and Solomon. He followed that up with recruiting M Johnson and Bradley.

What's he supposed to do when the game has started and they show such disinterest though Gav?

One thing a lot of people were critical of with CC was his reluctance to make any moves when things were clearly not working. Harvey throws them around, tries everything he can to get things to work, but with the pathetic attitude they had today, unless he found a way to clone Pav at quarter time, we were in big trouble.

The focus has to move to the players - they are responsible for at least having a go out there week in week out. There's not too many who would be able to look Harvs in the eye and say they did that today.

I am not actually saying i think CC is a better coach than Harvey, although so far Harvey has not shown that to be other than the case, but it is early days. Changing the coach takes the pressure right off the players. It gives them an out, another chance.

When managing people who are working in a team or other co-dependant relationship, and especially when they are required to perform at their best at a specific defined moment, it is probably the managements major responsibility to have them ready for that specific moment. Palmer is a good example of a player who was not ready yesterday, and I do not believe that he should be expected to get himself ready because he knows very little about playing AFL. It is why we have so many support staff, to take them through that and make sure they are primed.