Bring back Schultz soon

[santa claws]

He is contracted until the end of next year so he won't be delisted at the end of the year (they won't pay off his contract). Therefore unless he is traded, which is a growing possibility, here will be here next year

as someone who has always been critical of us selecting him i will say i would be happy for him to get one more yr because of his contract.

he has had some injuries and he is still only 22. he may be one of a few players who all of a sudden click i cant see it though. some minimal improvement each yr would give a reason to hang onto him unfortunately it just hasnt happened.

one thing for sure though he should not be gifted games from here on in. he has to show he is worthy of a spot. he has deficiencies in his game always has that makes me think he will never cut the mustard. my preferred option would be to trade him imo it should have been done in 2005 and most certainly last yr. i say this mainly because of his weaknesses.

 

[Rayzorwire]

And agree, there is no comparison with Kingsley as Kingsley ain't playing key position...Schulz has been.

He was the only other 'tall' other than Richo in the Essendon game. Hughes and Schulz lined up in the other two matches Kingsley has played and both spent significant time out of the forward line (ruck, defense, bench). Kingsley has been playing key position, it just doesn't look like it when he gets spoiled at every contest inside 50 and goes possession chasing on the wing so we can be reminded he is actually on the field.

I can see your argument....I don't think playing a 28 year old with little or no upside does anything for us, but I still think on present form he is a better bet. I'm all for Schulz PROVING he is the better option, but until he does, I'm not in to giving someone who is lazy and non-performing agame for the sake of giving him a game.

That's precisely my point. Kingsley has no form whatsoever - not a damn thing to hang his hat on yet. Schulz does. He hasn't set the world on fire and needs to improve quite a bit, but he has actually contributed something more games than not.

And FWIW, all those complaining that he often only kicks 2 goals a game, go check out the record books and see how few players average that over a career, and how few are doing so at age 22 in the bottom side.

A bit of perspective wouldn't go astray.

 

[Kyusss]

kingsley has played 3 games since ankle surgery why would u compare his stats
maybe use his career stats instead

 

[Wally Matera]

And FWIW, all those complaining that he often only kicks 2 goals a game, go check out the record books and see how few players average that over a career, and how few are doing so at age 22 in the bottom side.

A bit of perspective wouldn't go astray.

A bit of perspective???? LMAO... we need the perspective???

FWIW... how many other big guys get as much time as Schulz to prove themselves without doing fk all. Schulz is living off one game - the Brisbane one 2 years back. Pfff....

I was a massive fan of his until this year... no injuries and still getting dropped. I have more faith in Tambling as a forward option than Schulz.

 

[PLSC]

again schulz is the scapegoat when the coaches should be looking at the pathetic ruck division and poor midfield they have put together but hey its easier to drop schulz and meyer etc instead of the usual favourites

jay was killing it early in the season, when all other duds around him couldnt kick straight he was slotting the crucial kicks like in the pies game and it was looking promising for season 07

choked in the eagles game but we know he is a good kick so i can live with that, then when he struggled against the crows he got dropped but hey lets not take into account the crows are the biggest flooding team in the league and they had more kpp in their side because we decided to drop mcguane and hughes the week before so they were double teaming him all night which was even more evident when richo went off and that was game over straight away, great one terry!

and then they bring in an imposter of a footballer called kent kingsley and what has he done? oh yeh a few cheap possies outside 50 and a couple of gimmie goals similar to his form at coburg

im the first to give it to duds who dont work hard and you could fit schulz in that category but i just feel the club has nfi what they are doing with him and its crap because he is crucial to our future forwardline and this year when he is injury free they just **** with him and let kingsley get cheap games when the season was dead at round 5 and we should instead be pumping games into players who are gonna be here for the long haul

let him earn his spot blah blah what a load of crap

if i was jay id get my ass down to the dogs asap, they need a forward and he will fit in nicely not to mention the gun delivery he would get why should he waste his time at this rabble, but jay isnt the smartest tool in the shed so you never know

 

[tigerT]

again schulz is the scapegoat when the coaches should be looking at the pathetic ruck division and poor midfield they have put together but hey its easier to drop schulz and meyer etc instead of the usual favourites

jay was killing it early in the season, when all other duds around him couldnt kick straight he was slotting the crucial kicks like in the pies game and it was looking promising for season 07

choked in the eagles game but we know he is a good kick so i can live with that, then when he struggled against the crows he got dropped but hey lets not take into account the crows are the biggest flooding team in the league and they had more kpp in their side because we decided to drop mcguane and hughes the week before so they were double teaming him all night which was even more evident when richo went off and that was game over straight away, great one terry!

and then they bring in an imposter of a footballer called kent kingsley and what has he done? oh yeh a few cheap possies outside 50 and a couple of gimmie goals similar to his form at coburg

im the first to give it to duds who dont work hard and you could fit schulz in that category but i just feel the club has nfi what they are doing with him and its crap because he is crucial to our future forwardline and this year when he is injury free they just **** with him and let kingsley get cheap games when the season was dead at round 5 and we should instead be pumping games into players who are gonna be here for the long haul

let him earn his spot blah blah what a load of crap

if i was jay id get my ass down to the dogs asap, they need a forward and he will fit in nicely not to mention the gun delivery he would get why should he waste his time at this rabble, but jay isnt the smartest tool in the shed so you never know

love your work PLSC

 

[_RT_]

I said in my earlier post on this subject that Jay should not be brought back until he kicks 5+ goals & 15 possies a week for 4-5 weeks at Coburg level. I would just like to expand on that comment. The reason I would want him to do this is to get the consistency that he lacks at AFL level. He played the first 7-8 rounds this year and as noted did start the season well but just did not have that consistency from quarter to quarter let alone game after game. Too often you would get a 3-4 possession 2 goal quarter and then nothing for the next 3.

If Jay is to be the focus of our forward line it is not just him who needs confidence it is also those up the ground that need confidence, confidence in knowing that when they go to him 15-20 times a match he is going to get hold of it 75% of the time and at least score 50% of the time. Putting that into plain figures, most of us would be happy if he was to get 10-15 possies a game and was scoring 4.3/5.2 a week but as a FF if he is only getting 5-8 possies a game and scoring 2.1 then he is not getting the job done at FF.

 

[deliberate!!]

again schulz is the scapegoat when the coaches should be looking at the pathetic ruck division and poor midfield they have put together but hey its easier to drop schulz and meyer etc instead of the usual favourites

jay was killing it early in the season, when all other duds around him couldnt kick straight he was slotting the crucial kicks like in the pies game and it was looking promising for season 07

choked in the eagles game but we know he is a good kick so i can live with that, then when he struggled against the crows he got dropped but hey lets not take into account the crows are the biggest flooding team in the league and they had more kpp in their side because we decided to drop mcguane and hughes the week before so they were double teaming him all night which was even more evident when richo went off and that was game over straight away, great one terry!

and then they bring in an imposter of a footballer called kent kingsley and what has he done? oh yeh a few cheap possies outside 50 and a couple of gimmie goals similar to his form at coburg

im the first to give it to duds who dont work hard and you could fit schulz in that category but i just feel the club has nfi what they are doing with him and its crap because he is crucial to our future forwardline and this year when he is injury free they just **** with him and let kingsley get cheap games when the season was dead at round 5 and we should instead be pumping games into players who are gonna be here for the long haul

let him earn his spot blah blah what a load of crap

if i was jay id get my ass down to the dogs asap, they need a forward and he will fit in nicely not to mention the gun delivery he would get why should he waste his time at this rabble, but jay isnt the smartest tool in the shed so you never know

PLSC, how can Schultz be a 'scapegoat' when finally someone at the club is making a judgement call on the way he plays?

Schultz plays well when the conditions suit him, i.e; he has it over his opponent.....he can't beat an equal or better opponent.
Schultz looks a great player when he can run in a straight line and is hit on the chest (You and I would look great too!)
Schultz looks great when he can fly unhindered for the ball.
Schultz looks great having a set shot. (And yet the 'yips' are creeping into his game regularly now)
Schultz is soft in heavy traffic, getting pushed out of the contest by players who know how to use their bodies.
Schultz cannot manufacture goals from nothing, like all good forwards can.
Schultz gives the impression he is buggered halfway through a game, and he shouldn't be for a senior AFL player (unforgiveable)
Schultz cannot exert himself in the forwardline.
Schultz's awareness isn't that great, and doesn't understand where Richo is in the space that constituents our forwardline.
Schultz can't crumb in the forwardline.
Schultz can't keep the ball in the forwardline.
Schultz is too slow or too stupid to counter the opposition's 'switch' out of their backline.
No opposition backline worries about Schultz.
Opposition backlines have worried about Richo since he was a kid in our forwardline. (So compare the two)
Schultz is a lost plodder when placed in the backline.

The list is endless.
I struggle to see Schultz in a successful Richmond side unless he instantly changes all these areas. And he won't.
He's had enough chances.
Excuses like injuries and age are pointless. He's had a fair crack at AFL Level.

Schultz is not a scapegoat, but a guy who hasn't grabbed the numerous chances he's had.

 

[Crumden]

Schulz at full back

One of Schulz's problems seems to be that he doesn't stretch his arms out far enough in front of him when going for a mark, which makes it easier for an opponent to spoil. If he could do this and hang on to a few more overhead marks, he would be a lot more dangerous.

I feel like I've been on about this since he arrived at the club, but I think they should give Schulz a go at full back. He has a bit of height about him and he always seems to have a bit more mongrel about him when he plays in the backline. Although I like the look of Thursfield, neither he or Schulz get much of the ball and Schulz is bigger, taller and at the moment a bit more accomplished.

 

[Ando_4]

Jay should not be brought back until he kicks 5+ goals & 15 possies a week for 4-5 weeks at Coburg level.

Gee whiz you mean just like Kingsley and Hughes had to in order to earn a promotion to the seniors.
That's ridiculously high expectations.

With Schulz, like Meyer I am extremely disappointed that the coaching staff have failed so far to get the most out of these two players.
In my mind there is no doubt that these two have plenty of talent but the inability of Wallace & co. to get them to be their best is a poor reflection of the guys running the show. If either of these players gets traded and goes on to greater heights I'll be even more frustrated.
I honestly believe with regards to Schulz that our midfield issues are of far greater concern. Kingsley's inability to kick goals as his replacement is a fair indication that Jay Schulz is not the major problem here.
FIX THE MIDFIELD!

 

[deliberate!!]

Re: Schulz at full back

One of Schulz's problems seems to be that he doesn't stretch his arms out far enough in front of him when going for a mark, which makes it easier for an opponent to spoil. If he could do this and hang on to a few more overhead marks, he would be a lot more dangerous.

Good Point Crumden, and it's sad that the supporters pick these things up and not someone at the club.

Cheers

 

[_RT_]

Gee whiz you mean just like Kingsley and Hughes had to in order to earn a promotion to the seniors.
That's ridiculously high expectations.

With Schulz, like Meyer I am extremely disappointed that the coaching staff have failed so far to get the most out of these two players.
In my mind there is no doubt that these two have plenty of talent but the inability of Wallace & co. to get them to be their best is a poor reflection of the guys running the show. If either of these players gets traded and goes on to greater heights I'll be even more frustrated.
I honestly believe with regards to Schulz that our midfield issues are of far greater concern. Kingsley's inability to kick goals as his replacement is a fair indication that Jay Schulz is not the major problem here.
FIX THE MIDFIELD!

Why is it ridiculously high, VFL standard is below that of AFL standard and the difference between Jay and Cleve, is Jay is a FF, Cleve plays out at CHF.

http://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerCom...hes&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&SelectedPlayers=

Take a look at the figures above and see the difference between the 2 at AFL level. Cleve is averaging more than double Schulz in game they have played together and for the season as a whole.

My point is why shouldn't we place high expectations on our younger players in terms of what they need to do to either get games or stay on the list. Too often in the past we allow them to hit lower marks and then talk them up like they are superstars. Tell me what has Jay done to warrant the huge wraps we have placed on him, kicked 6 against the Lions a few years back. Since then his best effort is a couple of 3 goal hauls with a bunch of 2 goal efforts. If that is what you want from your future FF then get ready to spend the next few years sitting right where we are. Take a look at his 3 game spell at Coburg last year before he came back to the Tigers for example in 3 games he kicked 16 goals.

As for blaming the midfield it has not stopped Richo being a dominant player for the last 15 years when we have constantly had poor midfields. All you are doing is blaming another area to hide the fact that Jay does have a problem and that is he does not do enough at FF to warrant keeping his spot in the side. Wallace has given him enough of an opporunity this year to make FF his own and he hasn't.

It is funny how the blame gets laid at Wallace's feet for the kids not coming on as we all hope they will. The problem with that is Wallace does not play the game for them. He can give them the instructions, give them the opportunity to succeed but if they don't grab it what is Wallace supposed to do keep playing them in the hope that they might come good. We can't afford to carry players at AFL level. We need to find those that are going to cut it and put time into them and sorry to say but if Schulz does not pull his finger out soon then the chance may well have passed him by.

Don't get me wrong I want Jay to be a success as much as the next person but when you have a young FF averaging under a goal a game when he has played near 50 games I start to worry whether the one glimpse we got of his potential is all we are ever going to see.

 

[deliberate!!]

My point is why shouldn't we place high expectations on our younger players in terms of what they need to do to either get games or stay on the list.

Other teams expect their young players to contribute from the start. That's why they are in the elite level and not some amateur local team.
AFL Level football shouldn't be a kindergarten for hopeful footballers.
These guys are selected to play at the highest level whatever the age.

You don't expect a 12 yo Olympic gymnast to not perform because he/she is young. No, if they are the best, they are expected to perform NOW.
Otherwise, they shouldn't be there.

Schultz shouldn't be there!

 

[IDGAF]

With Schulz, like Meyer I am extremely disappointed that the coaching staff have failed so far to get the most out of these two players.
In my mind there is no doubt that these two have plenty of talent but the inability of Wallace & co. to get them to be their best is a poor reflection of the guys running the show. [/B]

what a load of bullshit Magic .

How do you rate the job the coaching staff have done with the likes of Jake King and Nathan Foley ?

Fact is you can`t polish a t.urd .... and JS and DM are stools of the highest order

 

[santa claws]

i reckon there would be 3 to 5 kpp on each teams list who were drafted at the same time or after schulz who have out performed him. sheesh mcguane hughes pattison and thursfield have all gone past him imo. and this at a club who has not been big on taking kpp. there are plenty of kpp who started as kpf who are now kpb. this is another cross against schulz if hes getting done up forward which is most of the time theres only one place for him the bench.

schulz is still living on the potential tag how many players would you take in front of him based on the potential tag. heaps for sure. hes pushing toward 50 games and is in his 5th yr and yet his performances are still on a par with his first yr.

schulz has basically underperformed all of his career. to call him a scapegoat is being silly. to say he was killing it early in the season is just wrong.
i cant understand why people are dirty on him being dropped what he has dished up so far is unacceptable. what im dirty about is kk getting a game although i can understand why. why not give riewoldt another game of a hff or play mcguane out of a fp he played most of his career as a junior in the forward line. if he struggles at least you could throw him down back to do a job.
when simmonds is up and going pattison could go to chf or a pocket. there will be options soon and all of them would be better than both schulz and kingsley.

 

[Ando_4]

what a load of bullshit Magic .

How do you rate the job the coaching staff have done with the likes of Jake King and Nathan Foley ?

Fact is you can`t polish a t.urd .... and JS and DM are stools of the highest order

Fair enough re targeting the coach staff. However your examples are both rookies that have had to fight tooth and nail for their footy careers. They are not first round draft selections.
I am just looking to vent my frustration at a couple of talented players that are letting their football careers seemingly slip away. Yes they do have talent. You don't get selected high in the draft if you can't play.

From the outside neither player has been particularly well managed this season. In & out of the side and on & off the bench doesn't equate to a sustained opportunity IMO when recycled hacks like Kingsley are being preferred in their place.

If they go on to be successes with another club I'll revisit this post.
I'll be extremely disappointed if we haven't gotten the most out of them and another club can.

 

[Wally Matera]

EDIT

The list is endless.
I struggle to see Schultz in a successful Richmond side unless he instantly changes all these areas. And he won't.
He's had enough chances.
Excuses like injuries and age are pointless. He's had a fair crack at AFL Level.

Schultz is not a scapegoat, but a guy who hasn't grabbed the numerous chances he's had.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Richo had a 90 goal season around the same time as where Schulz is at... but for some reason, we're prepared to applaud Schulz averaging 2 goals per game and displaying traits that are nothing more than a flat track bully.

Gee whiz... what a life. Pat him on the back and we'll continue to pay big bucks for mediocrity.

 

[Wally Matera]

EDIT...

... Jay Schulz is not the major problem here.
FIX THE MIDFIELD!

Biggest cop out l have ever heard. Yes, our midfield needs fixing, but please dont blame Schulz's shit form on the inability of his team mates to hit fed-ex it to him.

You make your own luck mate and Schulzy is the laziest ****er going around. If we had the Pritchards, Jarmans, Plattens type midfield back that used to ram it on the *** of Dunstall each week, you could get ****ing Ronny Mckeown to stand in the square and do just a good a job as Schulz.

Does nothing, unless handed on a platter (no different to Kingsley).

 

[santa claws]

Fair enough re targeting the coach staff. However your examples are both rookies that have had to fight tooth and nail for their footy careers. They are not first round draft selections.
I am just looking to vent my frustration at a couple of talented players that are letting their football careers seemingly slip away. Yes they do have talent. You don't get selected high in the draft if you can't play.

From the outside neither player has been particularly well managed this season. In & out of the side and on & off the bench doesn't equate to a sustained opportunity IMO when recycled hacks like Kingsley are being preferred in their place.

If they go on to be successes with another club I'll revisit this post.
I'll be extremely disappointed if we haven't gotten the most out of them and another club can.

i agree schulz has been poorly mismanaged. hes been given far to many games that he didnt deserve. he hasnt had to fight for his spot on the list. but to blame the club because of schulzs inadequacies. he has been given every opportunity to prove himself at afl level and he has been given every opportunity to make ff his. so far he has failed to grasp his opportunities.thats his fault no one elses.

oh by the way theres been plenty of high draft picks who cant play. sheesh just have a look at our recruiting over the yrs.being a high draft pick is no guarantee of making the grade.

 

[Wally Matera]

to say he was killing it early in the season is just wrong.

Unbelievable isnt it Santa... its not wrong... its downright embarassing!

Question to all those Schulz lovers... if big Jay is "killing it", what the hell is Lance Franklin doing?

 

[tigerdan]

Unbelievable isnt it Santa... its not wrong... its downright embarassing!

Question to all those Schulz lovers... if big Jay is "killing it", what the hell is Lance Franklin doing?

Wally you are starting to sound like MadTiger with Johnson...

What do you propose? Delist him? Maybe he deserves delisting (or maybe not) but we have precious few to replace him.

Comparisons with Richo and Franklin are unfair. Not every KPP is a star, and few are saying Schulz is. Even if he ends up a plodder we can still make use of him until someone better comes along.

Taking out your frustrations out on those who allowed our KPP stocks to dwindle would be better. We used to be one of the biggest teams in the league (not that it really achieved anything).

 

[Wally Matera]

Wally you are starting to sound like MadTiger with Johnson...

What do you propose? Delist him? Maybe he deserves delisting (or maybe not) but we have precious few to replace him.

Oh dear, l apologise, the mere reference to MT is making want to vomit.

I take it all back...

FWIW, l dont want to see him delisted, but he gets the easiest ride ever. Extremely over rated. One more year at the very best for him, or else GAWN.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Oh dear, l apologise, the mere reference to MT is making want to vomit.

I take it all back...

FWIW, l dont want to see him delisted, but he gets the easiest ride ever. Extremely over rated. One more year at the very best for him, or else GAWN.

Good one, you ex Fitzroy supporter

 

[Rayzorwire]

A bit of perspective???? LMAO... we need the perspective???

That's right - perspective.

After you've answered the points I raised in conjunction with the above quote, maybe you'll have some:

"go check out the record books and see how few players average that over a career, and how few are doing so at age 22 in the bottom side."

Perspective. For an example of a total lack of it, see below...

Putting that into plain figures, most of us would be happy if he was to get 10-15 possies a game and was scoring 4.3/5.2 a week

Where's the 'shaking my head in disbelief' emoticon?

All you want is somewhere in the range of 88-110 goals a year to be "happy" with Schulz RT? Is that all? From a 22yo kid whose coming off the back of almost two years injured and an interrupted pre-season? What's your "happy" point for Richo then considering he gets twice as much opportunity? 220 goals a year? Just 10.4 a week?

PLSC, how can Schultz be a 'scapegoat' when finally someone at the club is making a judgement call on the way he plays?

Schultz plays well when the conditions suit him, i.e; he has it over his opponent.....he can't beat an equal or better opponent.

Mal Michael...then Justin Leppitsch - as a teenager...Darren Glass only weeks ago...

Good point!

I won't include all the others he's kicked 2-4 on from limited opportunities.

Other teams expect their young players to contribute from the start. That's why they are in the elite level and not some amateur local team.
AFL Level football shouldn't be a kindergarten for hopeful footballers.
These guys are selected to play at the highest level whatever the age.

Why do all coaches and footy knowledgeable people talk about getting 50-100 games into kids? Because it's AFTER that we start to see their BEST football. Until then 95% of them have their 'L' plates on and can only play bit roles.

You don't expect a 12 yo Olympic gymnast to not perform because he/she is young. No, if they are the best, they are expected to perform NOW.
Otherwise, they shouldn't be there.

Is it any coincidence you picked perhaps the only sport where young teenagers perform better than more mature athletes - regardless of how much they know or the greater experience level of the more mature athlete?

Poor choice of analogy isn't it.

 

[CoggaRules]

Wally you are starting to sound like MadTiger with Johnson...

What do you propose? Delist him? Maybe he deserves delisting (or maybe not) but we have precious few to replace him.

Comparisons with Richo and Franklin are unfair. Not every KPP is a star, and few are saying Schulz is. Even if he ends up a plodder we can still make use of him until someone better comes along.

Taking out your frustrations out on those who allowed our KPP stocks to dwindle would be better. We used to be one of the biggest teams in the league (not that it really achieved anything).

man if you have just arrived from another planet, here is the deal.
When you suggest very few to replace him, are you saying that the "few" will send us to the bottom of the ladder? You see even if the "few" were shit, whats the ****ing difference to where we are now? But the "few" you talk about might offer something different, not saying they will, but no one knows.
The one fact we do know is that without the "few" we are shit and with the few it "might" change. If it doesnt we have another fact.
How long has the sarge been developing for? How many of our top picks from those days have saluted? You might understand that we have to clean the slate from those years. The lucky dip finds in our recruiting from those days you can count on one hand, if that. For the **** ups from our top picks you need an MCG scoreboard.