Mega Thread Buckley Contract extension

[teknodeejay]

He took us to a Prelim 2 years after our flag which is pretty standard. Unless you're Hawthorn or Brisbane (2001/2004) no one really makes gf after gf.
He got us 5th in home and away in 2013 and that premiership list got thrashed in our first final. It needed a rejig.

I maintain this was less about his ability to coach and more about the remaining quality stars still in the side

Ever since he's been required to actually do something to lead the club, list and match day battles he's found wanting.

I selfishly hope they keep him for another 2 years though because it's a guaranteed two null seasons for Collingwood.

 

[chunkylover53]

Completely forgot, their VFL suck now too - another big worrying sign imo

 

[Damon_3388]

At the end of 2011, even though Collingwood lost the granny, Collingwood still had all of Pendlebury, Swan, Cloke, Reid, Shaw (a young Sidebottom and Beams) all in there prime of there careers, from the 2011 team off the top of my head the only players who were done and dusted were Didak, Tarrant, Johnson, Ball, Jolly and Leon Davis.

Such a good team gutted by a man who has shown to have no idea what he's doing.

From the 2010 Premiership and 2011 GF sides:

Leigh Brown was done at the end of 2011. Chris Tarrant was done at the end of 2012. Alan Didak, Andrew Krakouer, Ben Johnson and Darren Jolly were done at the end of 2013. Luke Ball and Nick Maxwell were done at the end of 2014. Brent Macaffer, Dane Swan and Alan Toovey were done at the end of 2016. All that played on after 2011 had significant dips in form or ongoing injuries woes before retirement. That's 11 players, half the team, who simply came to the end of their footy life, nothing to do with Buckley. None played elsewhere after Collingwood.

Chris Dawes and Heritier Lumumba are out of the league, Dale Thomas has been a shadow of his former self at Carlton (yesterday was probably his best game since 2011), and Dayne Beams (despite a B&F and the captaincy and Brisbane), Sharrod Wellingham and Travis Cloke so far have spent half the time at their new clubs injured. Heath Shaw (AA last year) has really been the only great success of players that were supposedly "pushed out in their prime". That makes another 7 players, who the Pies were all well compensated for in return. Would the side be any better now and going forward (considering the players/picks they got in return), if they had clung to them? I doubt it.

Jarryd Blair, Alex Fasolo, Tyson Goldsack, Scott Pendlebury, Ben Reid and Steele Sidebottom all remain at Collingwood.

This all is a pretty standard turnover for any club in a 5-6 period, by the way. A refresh was certainly in order by the end of 2013 (which is when it began being instigated), but people don't seem to get it, and think the Pies just gave away stars while they were still fit and performing, which wasn't the case at all.

 

[Damon_3388]

Buckley was involved heavily in drafting

What makes you think he was more involved than any other coach, especially given the experience and tenure of our recruiters?

Maybe only 3 players from that whole crop will play 150+ games.

I'll admit that the 2013 Draft isn't looking like a success (as much due to injuries as anything else), but aside from your call being being purely speculative at this stage, is that really so unusual as well, given that probably about 3/4 of players don't even make it to 50 games?

 

[Damon_3388]

Completely forgot, their VFL suck now too - another big worrying sign imo

The Collingwood VFL side always sucked during the AFL sides better years, even finishing bottom in 2011-12. Last year was their best ever season, finishing 2nd after the minor round.

 

[Chism]

What makes you think he was more involved than any other coach, especially given the experience and tenure of our recruiters?

Cause i do not think Bucks is really good at coaching or making decisions that affect a club. Champion player Yes but he has shown nothing since he retired.

I'll admit that the 2013 Draft isn't looking like a success (as much due to injuries as anything else), but aside from your call being being purely speculative at this stage, is that really so unusual as well, given that probably about 3/4 of players don't even make it to 50 games?

Not the early picks say in Rd 1 and 2. As you get down to the lower picks o.k but your recent high selections are terrible so far and not one hit on a lower selection that looks to be o.k in the future.

There is very little coming through for the Pies presently from recent drafts.

 

[Damon_3388]

Cause i do not think Bucks is really good at coaching or making decisions that affect a club. Champion player Yes but he has shown nothing since he retired.

Fair enough if that's how you feel, but that doesn't answer the question I posed. I think you're just speculating and projecting RE: Buckley's involvement in drafting and recruiting, really.

Not the early picks say in Rd 1 and 2. As you get down to the lower picks o.k but your recent high selections are terrible so far and not one hit on a lower selection that looks to be o.k in the future.

There is very little coming through for the Pies presently from recent drafts.

I think you'll find that even 1st and 2nd Round draft picks don't have an especially high strike rate across the league, and many either never make it, or fall well short of their pre-draft expectations. Sometimes clubs hit, sometimes clubs miss. It's just the way it happens.

Having next to nothing to show from the 2007-2011 Drafts is the bigger concern that's playing out now IMO (Steele Sidebottom and Alex Fasolo are the only best 22 players from this period, with Jarryd Blair, Ben Sinclair, Lachlan Keeffe and Josh Thomas also still on the list), as these players should now be in their prime, and be making up the backbone of the side.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

The list is fine. We just need another forward and defender.

Keep shuffling those deck chairs on the Titanic...

 

[Gone Critical]

We are rebuilding and were 4 goal under dogs but in saying that ladder position rarely matters when we play each other and it is always a 50/50 game most times as we just lift when playing one another.

This is the Pies problem IMO and will be for the next 5+ years......

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That is seriously disgraceful and sets clubs back years and trust me i know all about it as a Carlton supporter. Buckley was involved heavily in drafting and besides being a poor match day coach the above is really telling.

Maybe only 3 players from that whole crop will play 150+ games.

Firstly l believe Bucks can't coach and our list struggles for class but don't agree with the analysis. The drafting from 2013-16 isn't disgraceful. There has been some bad luck, Scharenberg and Freeman, in 2013, and a lack of good quality picks in the last 2 seasons but it's not what our problem is.

Look at each year is isolation

2013 Scharenberg and Freeman were both destroyed by injury without a chance to see if they were any good. Couldn't have been predicted. Langdon a great choice at pick 60+ with 1st 2 seasons named in the u23 AA team but injured since. Marsh at pick 77 was also looking an excellent pick, unfortunately mental health issues finished him prematurely. Dwyer and Oxley better than the average rookies.

2014 Moore and DeGoey seem good picks. Maynard acceptable output from a pick30, better than most pick 30s.

2015 no good draft picks here or 2016 as Treloar swapped for 2 1st rounders. He has been good but it was a big price. Means we had little to expect from this draft. Still Sier hasn't got on the park but with 3 of the last 13 picks used in the draft to pick Phillips, Wills and Crocker, all who have shown a bit at AFL level is a minor win. There is no one we have not picked around these picks who is starring. Minor wins at the draft when limited expectations isn't a bad result. What would you have suggested.

2016- Again only poor quality draft picks but not unhappy with who we have picked. The more questionable decision may end up giving 2016 and 2017 2nd round picks for Hoskin Elliott.

Overall Scharenberg and Freeman hurt big time but that was bad luck. By and large the picks otherwise have been above expectations. A minor victory in a war we are losing. Where I strongly agree with you is the lack of overall class on our list. That's a bigger and more difficult problem than Buckley

 

[Forward Press]

You cannot really write off 2016 (or even 2015) as duds since they've only just started. 2013 had their top two picks wrecked with injury and the 2014 crop is good.

I think the recruiting has been fine, it's just Buckley.

Edit - thanks Gone Critical, much better analysis than my short response.

 

[Chism]

Firstly l believe Bucks can't coach and our list struggles for class but don't agree with the analysis. The drafting from 2013-16 isn't disgraceful. There has been some bad luck, Scharenberg and Freeman, in 2013, and a lack of good quality picks in the last 2 seasons but it's not what our problem is.

Look at each year is isolation

2013 Scharenberg and Freeman were both destroyed by injury without a chance to see if they were any good. Couldn't have been predicted. Langdon a great choice at pick 60+ with 1st 2 seasons named in the u23 AA team but injured since. Marsh at pick 77 was also looking an excellent pick, unfortunately mental health issues finished him prematurely. Dwyer and Oxley better than the average rookies.

2014 Moore and DeGoey seem good picks. Maynard acceptable output from a pick30, better than most pick 30s.

2015 no good draft picks here or 2016 as Treloar swapped for 2 1st rounders. He has been good but it was a big price. Means we had little to expect from this draft. Still Sier hasn't got on the park but with 3 of the last 13 picks used in the draft to pick Phillips, Wills and Crocker, all who have shown a bit at AFL level is a minor win. There is no one we have not picked around these picks who is starring. Minor wins at the draft when limited expectations isn't a bad result. What would you have suggested.

2016- Again only poor quality draft picks but not unhappy with who we have picked. The more questionable decision may end up giving 2016 and 2017 2nd round picks for Hoskin Elliott.

Overall Scharenberg and Freeman hurt big time but that was bad luck. By and large the picks otherwise have been above expectations. A minor victory in a war we are losing. Where I strongly agree with you is the lack of overall class on our list. That's a bigger and more difficult problem than Buckley

Fair points and nice analysis mate without being nasty like many do.

You obviously know more than me and besides Darcy ( Who i rate ) i do not see much at all coming through. DeGoey is a bit meh for me and not living up to his draft selection at #5 which is very high.

 

[Gone Critical]

Fair points and nice analysis mate without being nasty like many do.

You obviously know more than me and besides Darcy ( Who i rate ) i do not see much at all coming through. DeGoey is a bit meh for me and not living up to his draft selection at #5 which is very high.

I think De Goey will be good if he quells his idiot instincts. Yesterday was 1st senior game after injury and suspension. I am not certain about Moore to be truthful but he has potential and was a no brainer as a pick. No one would have said no to him. The other late draft picks will unearth some good players but not enough.

Big miss is Scharenberg and Freeman that's the main hurt.

 

[Tiger Snake]

time for Buckley to finish up at the end of the year... he's been given every chance and i still believe he should have never been given the job...
no ongoing role in any shape or form...
a complete overhaul of the coaching / recruiting staff...

Eddie also needs to go, this is his making...
Collingwood isn't 'his' and he sure as hell isn't Collingwood, i get the impression he thinks he is, this is a huge issue that i believe is really bad for the club...

time to hit the refresh button from top to bottom...

 

[Looney]

I think De Goey will be good if he quells his idiot instincts. Yesterday was 1st senior game after injury and suspension. I am not certain about Moore to be truthful but he has potential and was a no brainer as a pick. No one would have said no to him. The other late draft picks will unearth some good players but not enough.

Big miss is Scharenberg and Freeman that's the main hurt.

I honestly don't get what all the hype surrounding Scharenberg is all about. From what I've seen of him, he just seems like another average run of the mill player. If Collingwood is touting a player like Scharenberg as a future star, then we are in huge trouble.

 

[cartel]

Collingwood couldn't have predicted the run of injuries that Freeman and Schwarenberg have had

 

[Looney]

time for Buckley to finish up at the end of the year... he's been given every chance and i still believe he should have never been given the job...
no ongoing role in any shape or form...
a complete overhaul of the coaching / recruiting staff...

Eddie also needs to go, this is his making...
Collingwood isn't 'his' and he sure as hell isn't Collingwood, i get the impression he thinks he is, this is a huge issue that i believe is really bad for the club...

time to hit the refresh button from top to bottom...

Isn't it funny how the wheel turns full circle. Allan McCalister took Collingwood from the ruins to win the premiership in 1990, then his ego got the better of him and dragged Collingwood back to ruins. Then came Eddie who picked Collingwood up from the ruins to eventually win the 2010 premiership after coming close several times a decade earlier. Now he seems to be in the same predicament as MaCalister as Collingwood is falling apart again.

I will definitely miss Eddie if/when he goes. He is the last of the old school 'colourful' presidents after John Elliot and Geoff Edelstein.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Collingwood couldn't have predicted the run of injuries that Freeman and Schwarenberg have had

official reasons

 

[Gone Critical]

I honestly don't get what all the hype surrounding Scharenberg is all about. From what I've seen of him, he just seems like another average run of the mill player. If Collingwood is touting a player like Scharenberg as a future star, then we are in huge trouble.

That's the point. He was a no 6 draft pick. His massive injury run means he looks like he will just be run of the mill if he makes it. Without the injuries we never no what he might have been.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

He didn't need to put his neck on the line by saying it's finals or bust but to his credit he heaped a fair bit of pressure on himself. Still only a couple of games out the eight so it's not impossible but he is a competitor and at least has the right attitude that he demands success. A great of the club that hopefully gets a chance to go gracefully unlike the way Voss left which was amateur hour.

 

[Chism]

That's the point. He was a no 6 draft pick. His massive injury run means he looks like he will just be run of the mill if he makes it. Without the injuries we never no what he might have been.

Yarran was a pick #6 to and is on the exact same boat of what might of been.

Injuries / Mental issues and so many other things influence careers at the highest level and when you take these blokes with your 1st pick in a national draft you need to nail it. Lucky for us we got compensation for Yarran from the Tigers to lessen the blow.

 

[Madblue]

Except for Pendles the midfield are butchers of the ball with poor disposal even though they get alot of the ball. That equaits to poor recruiting.

 

[Gone Critical]

Yarran was a pick #6 to and is on the exact same boat of what might of been.

Injuries / Mental issues and so many other things influence careers at the highest level and when you take these blokes with your 1st pick in a national draft you need to nail it. Lucky for us we got compensation for Yarran from the Tigers to lessen the blow.

That's true these picks being busts for whatever reason leave big holes

 

[Chism]

That's true these picks being busts for whatever reason leave big holes

Yep and when you get multiple years in succession of failure with high picks and no lower hits coming through it really does hurt a list.

Trust me as we know all about it and it sucks which puts you back a long way from the pack.

Drafting in today's modern game is HUGE and if you can get decent value from your 1st and 2nd Rd picks while maybe nailing a 100 game player in the lower rounds you are well on your way.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Completely forgot, their VFL suck now too - another big worrying sign imo

We also have very few injuries ATM so both our AFL and VFL teams are close to full strength! it's a cluster ****.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Isn't it funny how the wheel turns full circle. Allan McCalister took Collingwood from the ruins to win the premiership in 1990, then his ego got the better of him and dragged Collingwood back to ruins. Then came Eddie who picked Collingwood up from the ruins to eventually win the 2010 premiership after coming close several times a decade earlier. Now he seems to be in the same predicament as MaCalister as Collingwood is falling apart again.

Quite true. Us Collingwood fans that remember 1990 and 2010 can see a few similarities in the post-premiership decline. Collingwood haven't handled the transition from hunter to hunted too well.