Review Bulldogs vs. Cats postmatch thread

[BUSTER29]

Nothing changes my view from mid-way through the Hawks game (which we miraculously won) that this side has lost its way and nothing short of a miracle will win us a flag.

The positive with this team remains the ability to come back when the chips are down. That gives me hope. But we just aren't playing good consistent football. And I fear its too late in the season to turn that around.

Spot on! We need a fit Chapman and SJ in our team to be any chance in September

 

[Poetic Justice]

It is early 07 again - in the fact that our game plan isn't working so we've retreated to using this stupid go backwards ball style, with bullshit ineffective handballs that end up with the turn over and we continually get punished for doing it.

The team needs to sit the **** down and pick out those players they think aren't doing the job again.

I thought the performance of Hawkins and Mooney was great tonight, 7 goals between them (6 if you don't count Hawks gift.)

I'd rather go with an average player than Blake. Pissed me off good and proper tonight. Liked his tap work but the rest of it is just so much of a let down you're left wondering whether you want him or not.

Surprised to see not much mention of Scarlett. I thought his effort, for him, was appalling. He would have known he was not really in top form, so why on earth would he continually leave so much space between his man and himself?

That is the highlighted problem for me tonight from the game. In the Carlton game I felt the same.. players sitting in the backline waiting for it to come down, and when it does they find their man has already bolted and they struggle to get out in front.

And I have to ask.. why is it that I feel EVERY GAME Andrew Mackie only comes good once he's copped a spray from the coach... can't you man up and play a good game without being forced to?

 

[Last Line Hero]

Why do defenders in this day and age, see it as a smart ploy to play in front of their opponents? The best defenders don't do it, Scarlett, Prestigiacomo, Lake, Rutten etc, and it is a large reason why they have become established as star defenders. You just don't do it. The Cats backmen tonight, Gillies, Mackie, Enright in particular and aside from Scarlett, attempting to defend from in front of their assignment is what allowed the Bulldogs so many quick, easy goals.

I am still convinced that if we string it together come finals time we can beat anyone. We've demonstrated that when we establish our run and carry, and our skills are up, it doesn't matter who we are playing they can't match us. At the moment, it's a matter of displaying that for 4 quarters.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Scarlett was poor tonight. I tmay be a positive that so many of our good players were down (Scarlett, Bartel, Corey etc) yet at times we still looked like winning the game.

I see Wojak has missed some of the criticism. He was awful.

 

[Big Nasty]

I never want to see Gamble, Stokes or Wojkinski wearing a Geelong jumper as long as I live. Absolutely no heart in these so called AFL players. You can start about the whole "who do we play instead" crap. But even a VFL listed player deserves to play over these jokes.

What do we honestly gain by dropping Ablett in defence for most of the game? keep Bartel down there. His work in the middle was a joke. Every time he got the ball at the Centre clearances, he just dribbled the ball forward. Apart from that St.Kilda game, and that goal against Hawthorn. He's been very average this year.

Mackie... Quit being so f****ing casual. Your playing professional football for crying out loud.

Joel Selwood looked like Steve Johnson tonight. Stupidly Looking to take on multiple opponents, and playing for free kicks.

The only players who deserve any Kudos tonight are - Scarlett, Ablett, Milburn, Mooney & Gillies.

 

[geelong_boy]

I am still convinced that if we string it together come finals time we can beat anyone. We've demonstrated that when we establish our run and carry, and our skills are up, it doesn't matter who we are playing they can't match us. At the moment, it's a matter of displaying that for 4 quarters.

I don't think that any of us doubt that we have the skill or talent to win the flag, but do we have the work ethic? Are we prepared to work hard enough to put the opposition under pressure for four quarters? Do we have the form? Do we have a settled team?

 

[Hoffy95]

Why do defenders in this day and age, see it as a smart ploy to play in front of their opponents? The best defenders don't do it, Scarlett, Prestigiacomo, Lake, Rutten etc, and it is a large reason why they have become established as star defenders. You just don't do it. The Cats backmen tonight, Gillies, Mackie, Enright in particular and aside from Scarlett, attempting to defend from in front of their assignment is what allowed the Bulldogs so many quick, easy goals.

I am still convinced that if we string it together come finals time we can beat anyone. We've demonstrated that when we establish our run and carry, and our skills are up, it doesn't matter who we are playing they can't match us. At the moment, it's a matter of displaying that for 4 quarters.

The hands in the back rule has had a huge impact on this IMO. I've played a lot as a backman prior and post rule change and used to rely on the subtle hold/push all the time playing from behind. Coupled with the arm chop, it has taken so much away from the man playing from behind...particularity in the backline where it's easy to give away a shot on goal.

As you point out. The only blokes who play well from behind do so purely because they are superb backmen. I don't think everyone is best suited from behind the way the game is these days.

 

[Big Nasty]

Scarlett was poor tonight. I tmay be a positive that so many of our good players were down (Scarlett, Bartel, Corey etc) yet at times we still looked like winning the game.

I see Wojak has missed some of the criticism. He was awful.

Your takin' the piss. Surely?

Scarlett killed Welsh. And the only reason we stayed in the game (apart from the bulldogs innacuracy). Was Scarlett's disposal.

 

[Magnum]

Drop Stokes for Hogan and give Stokes a wake up call.

Ottens in Blake out.

Rest Chapman and Jonno again and pray they can get fit before taking on the pies/dogs.

Mackie needs to pull his finger out and stop being so cute.

Mooney up the ground a little operate at CHF more.

Most of us need to play with greater intensity for four quarters.

Could be a tough finals series if we dont get our act together.

/armchair coach

 

[Pettas]

How good was Gilles? made a few mistakes (staying too far off his opponent at times) but i was very impressed with him.

 

[Last Line Hero]

It is early 07 again - in the fact that our game plan isn't working so we've retreated to using this stupid go backwards ball style, with bullshit ineffective handballs that end up with the turn over and we continually get punished for doing it.

The team needs to sit the **** down and pick out those players they think aren't doing the job again.

I thought the performance of Hawkins and Mooney was great tonight, 7 goals between them (6 if you don't count Hawks gift.)

I'd rather go with an average player than Blake. Pissed me off good and proper tonight. Liked his tap work but the rest of it is just so much of a let down you're left wondering whether you want him or not.

Surprised to see not much mention of Scarlett. I thought his effort, for him, was appalling. He would have known he was not really in top form, so why on earth would he continually leave so much space between his man and himself?

That is the highlighted problem for me tonight from the game. In the Carlton game I felt the same.. players sitting in the backline waiting for it to come down, and when it does they find their man has already bolted and they struggle to get out in front.

And I have to ask.. why is it that I feel EVERY GAME Andrew Mackie only comes good once he's copped a spray from the coach... can't you man up and play a good game without being forced to?

First of all I will say that Scarlett's 2nd half was what ignited the side. His ability to break the lines and find targets through and from half back was something utterly absent from the back 6 in the opening 2 quarters, and set up a plethora of scoring chances. He was clearly our best player in the 2nd half. In the 1st half I thought he was victim of our stagnant movement from defence, every time he recieved the ball it was from someone under pressure and he himself was often caught standing still or facing his defensive end, and most importantly the Dogs forward pressure was brilliantly good early.

Defensively, I personally thought he was very strong all game. His opponents did, almost literally, nothing and he conceded no goals, and I never saw him beaten in a contest. Not only that but he came up with some very timely spoils across the entirety of the 4 quarters. The Bulldogs where utilising his opponent to open up space in their attacking 50, i.e dragging him up into the middle of the ground when there was a stoppage around our half forward line or in the centre, and they would hover there as the play opened up. In turn this mean't that Scarlett was torn between his duties of accountability and dropping back to help teammates, so he would allow his man to push right up so as to not get sucked up exposing our other defenders, but at the same time not play off him completely. With the Bulldogs pushing deep forward as quickly as they were in the opening half it often looked as if Scarlett was playing off his man, but he was in fact waiting for his direct opponents to return into attack.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

This board needs to lighten up, Bomber has clearly been preparing us for finals since round 13. Sure we played badly for the first half, but we did come back from 5 goals down. We are not that far off, we just lost to St.Kilda without out Stevie and Ottens, tonight we didn't have Harley, Kelly,Ottens, Stevie and Varcoe, factor these blokes in (and Blake's handball not happening) and it could have been a very different result. Come finals that hard fitness regime that has been enforced in the last couple of weeks will come in handy. Seriously we have lost a few 50/50's with the exception of Carlton. Remember Brisbane in their premiership years, they never won every game, but they performed when it mattered. That's exactly what Bomber has in mind, and that is hopefully what will happen.

Big positive was the forward line, good work Hawkins and Mooney, so good to see the comeback not coming from the midfield standing up, but the forward line, big positive for september.

Agreed mate. Everyone on the board is over panicking.
It wasn't a good performance, however it was good opposition, and considering how badly we played in the first half, to still be in a position to win the match in the last few minutes shows our resilience.
In the third quarter when we ran, were brave, hit targets, tackled (learn off Rookey!) and worked for each other, we are definitely capable of beating anyone.
What we need to do, as the third quarter showed, is be like this for 4 quarters.

Personnel is also a big issue. Speaking of which, if I have a message from tonight (Bomber please read) DO NOT PLAY INJURED PLAYERS! Chapman spent the whole second half off, and in an end to end game, there's no doubt that cost us. I heard Bomber try and defend this in the presser by saying you take that kind of risk with a top class player that you wouldn't otherwise (I'm paraphrasing but that's essentially what he said) and nooo! With our type of game style especially, we need 22 fit players for that. If we have to sacrifice a bit of talent for fitness (so long as Tenace doesn't play ) then so be it. Given the GF is about a month away, sadly his season needs to be over. Can't twinge it again in the GF.

Bomber also pointed out that having 5-6 changes every week affects the game style (which is true) and the result, so the best way to do that is to stop trying to get injured players up.
He said Kelly and Ottens will play next week, as I presume will Harley and Stevie, and then that's it. Anyone who can't make it to the line for round 22 shouldn't play in the finals.

My second real problem with tonight is Mark Blake (sorry I know we all bag him, but sometimes he deserves it). Yes he wins heaps of hitouts, but you need not to be seduced by that, since at his height and leap he'll win a lot. It's hitouts to advantage that really matter, and at one point in the last quarter he hit it straight to a bulldogs midfielder, clearance, goal. And as for that handball that caused a turnover and goal...not good enough! Which proves what many of us have always said that he is ok in the ruck (no better than that) but still a liability around the ground. He should only play in the finals if Ottens is unfit (even then I would rather West than Blake). Otherwise Ottens must play ahead of Blake as he won't make those sort of mistakes, and neither will big Mummy.

 

[True Blue Cat]

I said Dogs by 2 goals.

I said Mooney would kick 3.2. He had kicked 3.1 and went for goal and i said he would miss it and he did. But then he got another goal which messed it up.
I said byrnes would get 3 and he did. I said stokes would get 1 and he did. I put hawkins down for 2 he kicked 3.

Not taking anything away from the Dogs but Mark Blake handed them the win by himself... When it comes to Blake i don't understand how he gets a game but anyways moving on.

For once we had a forward line that was working pretty well. A midfield that was not to bad but out backline was horrible. Scarlett and Mackie were playing to far off their opponents even more so than usual i would say. I don't like Scarlett so far forward as he ended up so often. Not sure why Gamble ended up in defense at 1 stage. Gillies stepped up and played well for such a new player.

Congratz on the win Doggies.


Gillies played so well he is showing he really has what it takes to play in the Team come finals. He was 1 of our best defenders on the ground.


Gamble for his first game back did nothing magnificent but he did more than enough to keep his spot. Stokes is back in clangerville...

Mumford up forward I really liked.

here is my quote from thread on blake and west

Honestly when i saw Mumford up forward i got worried. Them wanting to try him as a forward gave me a feeling Ottens wasn't coming back at all and they wanted Mumford being able to play another position come finals. Blake today was a joke and a half. His actions cost us the game without a doubt.

Mumford showed today that he is actually a good player not just decent in the ruck. When he lined up for goal i was nervous as i hadn't seen him kick for goal before but i was happy with the result.

 

[ATSAM]

So why has our form drooped, why are we slow,why are our skills so bad. Did you watch the playersas they left the ground at half time, they looked exhausted and dispirited.
We can't win games with several players out injured or with general soreness. I don't buy thompson preparing them for final since round 13 as a positive. If its true then he has got it badly wrong and didn't bring the players in on the strategy- Mackies text to Harley after the Carlton game.
Now Chapman is gone, can't even get through one quarter, Varcoe out, SJohnson and Harley dodgy,Kelly like last years GF not fit and very suddenly we look ordinary. What waste of talent and opportunity.One premiership does not make a great club.

 

[Big Nasty]

This board needs to lighten up, Bomber has clearly been preparing us for finals since round 13. Sure we played badly for the first half, but we did come back from 5 goals down. We are not that far off, we just lost to St.Kilda without out Stevie and Ottens, tonight we didn't have Harley, Kelly,Ottens, Stevie and Varcoe, factor these blokes in (and Blake's handball not happening) and it could have been a very different result. Come finals that hard fitness regime that has been enforced in the last couple of weeks will come in handy. Seriously we have lost a few 50/50's with the exception of Carlton. Remember Brisbane in their premiership years, they never won every game, but they performed when it mattered. That's exactly what Bomber has in mind, and that is hopefully what will happen.

Big positive was the forward line, good work Hawkins and Mooney, so good to see the comeback not coming from the midfield standing up, but the forward line, big positive for september.

WAKE UP. Forget the players we didn't have. Ottens, Johnson, Harley, Varcoe, Kelly are not gonna play a key part in the finals. If they're not struggling with injuries, they have missed too many games to have the fitness that is required in finals.

 

[PremiersAtLast]

Scarlett was poor tonight. I tmay be a positive that so many of our good players were down (Scarlett, Bartel, Corey etc) yet at times we still looked like winning the game.

I see Wojak has missed some of the criticism. He was awful.

I thought that Scarlett and Jimmy had the worst first half that they have played in a couple of years, Jimmy particularly. Glad he got a little better in the second half. I thought Blake was trying hard and was actually more effective than Mummy in the ruck duels but he continues to let himself and the team down around the ground. I get the feeling Mummy is tiring though and if (big if) Otto comes back, I suspect it will be Blake and Ottens in the finals.

Again, my opinion, but I thought Gamble's lack of experience showed tonight which makes him a risk in finals in my mind, however, Stokes' first half was as bad as Jimmy's (and as most of you point out he has been bad for quite a while now) so not sure who to drop for Johnson and Chappy, if he makes it back. DJ actually improved over the course of the game (I think more by not being in the play so much) but I would love to think he could be squeezed out of the team with our A-list returning as I don't think he is quite up to 'our standard'.

Well done Bullies in the end, will be interesting to see how we go from this point on. Go Catters.

 

[Big Nasty]

First of all I will say that Scarlett's 2nd half was what ignited the side. His ability to break the lines and find targets through and from half back was something utterly absent from the back 6 in the opening 2 quarters, and set up a plethora of scoring chances. He was clearly our best player in the 2nd half. In the 1st half I thought he was victim of our stagnant movement from defence, every time he recieved the ball it was from someone under pressure and he himself was often caught standing still or facing his defensive end, and most importantly the Dogs forward pressure was brilliantly good early.

Defensively, I personally thought he was very strong all game. His opponents did, almost literally, nothing and he conceded no goals, and I never saw him beaten in a contest. Not only that but he came up with some very timely spoils across the entirety of the 4 quarters. The Bulldogs where utilising his opponent to open up space in their attacking 50, i.e dragging him up into the middle of the ground when there was a stoppage around our half forward line or in the centre, and they would hover there as the play opened up. In turn this mean't that Scarlett was torn between his duties of accountability and dropping back to help teammates, so he would allow his man to push right up so as to not get sucked up exposing our other defenders, but at the same time not play off him completely. With the Bulldogs pushing deep forward as quickly as they were in the opening half it often looked as if Scarlett was playing off his man, but he was in fact waiting for his direct opponents to return into attack.

Exactly LLH. And when Bruce kept hammering on about Lakes game in the first half I was getting filthy. Imagine Lake playing Full Back for Geelong tonight, he would have got smashed with the never ending pin point disposal from his side. Scarlett was easily the most effective & dangerous player for Geelong tonight. And he did all that while keeping Welsh to a goal.

 

[PremiersAtLast]

Also thought Selwood had a down game tonight. Not with respect to effort or possession, more so that there would have been at least 3 or 4 occasions (more?) when he had reasonably clear possession only turn it over through smothers or getting himself in trouble needlessly. I have confidence our boys will get better in the coming weeks with or without our injured stars.

 

[InnocentBystandr]

It was the errors - and good players making them (Scarlett, Jimmy, Mackie to name a few), and of course the lesser players making a lot of them (Blake).

Positives were the forwards having the courage to take the set shots (and get most of them. We were in it after giving away a huge start, and blew by a couple of turnovers at the very end.

Mind you, had we have snuck over the line, I don't think I would have felt much better - we needed to make a statement and did so only for a glorious 20 minutes.

 

[Partridge]

I never want to see Gamble, Stokes or Wojkinski wearing a Geelong jumper as long as I live. Absolutely no heart in these so called AFL players. You can start about the whole "who do we play instead" crap. But even a VFL listed player deserves to play over these jokes.

What do we honestly gain by dropping Ablett in defence for most of the game? keep Bartel down there. His work in the middle was a joke. Every time he got the ball at the Centre clearances, he just dribbled the ball forward. Apart from that St.Kilda game, and that goal against Hawthorn. He's been very average this year.

Mackie... Quit being so f****ing casual. Your playing professional football for crying out loud.

Joel Selwood looked like Steve Johnson tonight. Stupidly Looking to take on multiple opponents, and playing for free kicks.

The only players who deserve any Kudos tonight are - Scarlett, Ablett, Milburn, Mooney & Gillies.

Yep. Agree with just about every point. Certainly about Stokes. He's been rubbish for weeks and weeks. Byrnes is so much more preferable now. Look at a guy like Gillies - young, he's making mistakes, but he's also learning from them quickly and he's busting his butt. Stokes is lazy, unaccountable, and most of all, massively overrated.

Gamble is just not there yet. No physical pressure in his game at all. Wocjinski hasn't gotten better, still makes horrendous disposal errors under no pressure, and has no awareness.

The side would be immediately improved by the absence of these three. Hopefully starting next week.

But you're right, it's the lack of urgency, lack of commitment, and lack of intensity, all over the field that's the main problem. And it's been there ALL season. Not just the last 2 months. It was there earlier in the year, but due to us playing one or two brilliant quarters it was completely overlooked.

Too many Geelong supporters don't want to face facts. On current form we are NO HOPE in September. I can easily see us bombing out in straight sets. And when it happens, then people will wonder why. The signs have been there all season long, and have been left unchecked by the players and coaching staff.

 

[Big Nasty]

After my first Bigfooty Blake rant, thought I better touch on a few positves.

The comeback in the third was enjoyable as a spectator. Great atmosphere in the crowd.

I though Hawkins and Mooney were exceptional tonight. Best game in recent memory by the Hawk. I really liked the second half forward set up. Having Mummy up forward with Hawkins, Mooney and Gamble was very effective.

Selwood, Ablett, Milburn and Byrnes had strong second halfs. Ling was BOG for me. Consistent effort all night. Though Ling and Rooke were the only players to play all four quarters.

Gillies continues to impress. Showing some good signs. Like how he could play in the back half allowing dasher up on the wing.

That's about all the positives I can think of at this stage.

Ling got smashed by Cooney.

Also I thought Byrnes was good tonight. Got off his opponent easy up the ground, and got the ball forward quite a bit.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Exactly LLH. And when Bruce kept hammering on about Lakes game in the first half I was getting filthy. Imagine Lake playing Full Back for Geelong tonight, he would have got smashed with the never ending pin point disposal from his side. Scarlett was easily the most effective & dangerous player for Geelong tonight. And he did all that while keeping Welsh to a goal.

TBH, Big Nasty I wouldn't even say Welsh was Scarlett's primary opponent tonight. He started on Minson, and aside from patches on Welsh and Cooney, faced up to Hahn most of the evening. Welsh's goal was on David Johnson too. Lake wasn't great tonight, he conceded at least 3 goals and made as many errors late with the game in the balance as Scarlett did in the 1st half. On top of that Scarlett's 2nd half significantly outweighed Lakes 1st.

Scarlett and Mackie were playing to far off their opponents even more so than usual i would say. I don't like Scarlett so far forward as he ended up so often.

You say Scarlett was playing too far off his opponent, then you say you don't like him playing so far up the field? Scarlett's opponent's realise he is too difficult to beat and potentially too effective when allowed to settle in our defensive 50, so opposing coaches instruct his direct opponents to drag him up the field.

Scarlett then attempts to avoid getting sucked too far up the ground and running the risk of our other defenders being exposed by allowing his man to venture up beyond the centre, but at the same time he doesn't risk losing them on the way back by floating too deep into defence, so he affords them 20-30 meters and stations himself around 60-70 meters out from the opposing goal. When the opposition then bring the ball into attack Scarlett may sometimes look as if he is floating off, but he is fact waiting for his man to get back.

The reality is, Scarlett is going to have to play off his opponents at stages otherwise he will spend most of his night as, effectively, a midfielder and our defence will get cut to ribbons. At the same time, he is also going to win alot of ball a fair way from defence because that's where his opponents are instructed to go. As long as he continues to seldom if ever be beaten in contested situations inside our defence, and continues to not ony half but win as many contests as he does, then I have issue.

 

[rooie]

Too many Geelong supporters don't want to face facts. On current form we are NO HOPE in September. I can easily see us bombing out in straight sets. And when it happens, then people will wonder why. The signs have been there all season long, and have been left unchecked by the players and coaching staff.

oh ok, i will cancel foxtel and book a holiday in fiji....

 

[True Blue Cat]

TBH, Big Nasty I wouldn't even say Welsh was Scarlett's primary opponent tonight. He started on Minson, and aside from patches on Welsh and Cooney, faced up to Hahn most of the evening. Welsh's goal was on David Johnson too. Lake wasn't great tonight, he conceded at least 3 goals and made as many errors late with the game in the balance as Scarlett did in the 1st half. On top of that Scarlett's 2nd half significantly outweighed Lakes 1st.



You say Scarlett was playing too far off his opponent, then you say you don't like him playing so far up the field? Scarlett's opponent's realise he is too difficult to beat and potentially too effective when allowed to settle in our defensive 50, so opposing coaches instruct his direct opponents to drag him up the field.

Scarlett then attempts to avoid getting sucked too far up the ground and running the risk of our other defenders being exposed by allowing his man to venture up beyond the centre, but at the same time he doesn't risk losing them on the way back by floating too deep into defence, so he affords them 20-30 meters and stations himself around 60-70 meters out from the opposing goal. When the opposition then bring the ball into attack Scarlett may sometimes look as if he is floating off, but he is fact waiting for his man to get back.

The reality is, Scarlett is going to have to play off his opponents at stages otherwise he will spend most of his night as, effectively, a midfielder and our defence will get cut to ribbons. At the same time, he is also going to win alot of ball a fair way from defence because that's where his opponents are instructed to go. As long as he continues to seldom if ever be beaten in contested situations inside our defence, and continues to not ony half but win as many contests as he does, then I have issue.

I understand that it is something coaches encourage to draw Scarlett out but every game it happens in our defense struggles something shocking. Scarlett and Mackie etc are used to being able to play off their opponents but i think they stretched that to far tonight and while this allowed their attacking work to be pretty good it left their defensive work with something to be desired. Geelong need to figure something out. When people try to draw Scarlett forward maybe they need to be willing to switch up the match ups and let someone else go forward so Scarlett can stay back. Scarlett is at his worst when he has to sprint backwards into the 50 just to attempt to affect the play.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We couldn't clear the ball from the backline, and didn't change our tactic there all night from what I could tell.

Blake has the body strength of a 13 year old girl, has no awarness and should not be on an AFL field.

Hawkins does not know how to pay his position

Nobody can hit targets

Everybody is waiting for somebody else to put their body on the line and wont do it themselves.

Looping hospital handballs make me sick.

Too many players think they have too much time.

More to come...

Blake indeed has no awareness and is a liability around the ground.

But nobody will put their body on the line...what game did you watch?
Yes not all did, and they need to do better, but the Selwood's, Rooke's, and Ling's, to name a few, did!

And I actually thought it was one of Tomahawk's better games. Starting to mark with confidence. Although his one black mark was when someone had a shot from 45 and it dropped short on the line and he was hiding next to the fence instead of being on the line.