Opinion Butcher

[edgie]

I'll bite, so what did we collectively think about Vickery before this week?

You'll have to ask the people posting in the general AFL thread on Friday night. I was merely reading it.

Personal opinion though anyway:

Inconsistent spud that benifitted from Riewoldt playing decoy higher up the ground, and ineffective spells in the ruck to add versatility.

 

[Powerstufff]

.... Personal opinion though anyway:

Inconsistent spud (i.e Vickery)that benifitted from Riewoldt playing decoy higher up the ground, and ineffective spells in the ruck to add versatility.

My subjective opinion was that Vickery was a good player, but I looked back through his FootyWire profile for safety's sake. His career is not comparable to Butcher's except for time lost to injury. However Vickery has made up for that.

 

[Nemisis]

Vickery is a long way from being a champ but can be an aggressive monster who clunks the occasional mark and kicks reasonably straight.
Average footballer that has learnt to play a role.

 

[edgie]

My subjective opinion was that Vickery was a good player, but I looked back through his FootyWire profile for safety's sake. His career is not comparable to Butcher's except for time lost to injury. However Vickery has made up for that.

Yep, being given 60 odd games extra experience will help any player make up for that.

I don't wanna get in to it right now, Butch is doing shit and not going to earn his way to AFL selection for Port Adelaide again. The ship has sailed, and cast anchor elsewhere. Apples and oranges though. He has never been backed in, and that's what I'm saying. The future is set and not debateable. What happened in the past, right or wrong, is debatable.

Lol, unintentional "the future" pun.

 

[Powerstufff]

..... He has never been backed in, and that's what I'm saying ....

Not remotely true

.... Lol, unintentional "the future" pun.

Rats, you saw it. I was on it like flies on poop, but then you'd picked it up.

 

[SilenceOz]

He has never been backed in

Oh come on, the club has done everything it could for him.
If he hasn't turned it around now, its not the club it is Butcher failing to achieve anything in the SANFL let alone AFL.

 

[edgie]

Oh come on, the club has done everything it could for him.
If he hasn't turned it around now, its not the club it is Butcher failing to achieve anything in the SANFL let alone AFL.

He's been dropped after shit games, never to be recalled, the last 2 seasons. His shit games have been no worse statistically than Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead, and other's shit games in their early seasons, who were not dropped. Not every forward is Cameron or Walker who comes on straight up. Remembering Butcher hasn't/has barely played a full seasons worth of games.

 

[PA88]

Oh Lord! Go watch him and then post.

expressing your haughty and lily-livered self again.

 

[SilenceOz]

He's been dropped after shit games, never to be recalled, the last 2 seasons. His shit games have been no worse statistically than Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead, and other's shit games in their early seasons, who were not dropped. Not every forward is Cameron or Walker who comes on straight up. Remembering Butcher hasn't/has barely played a full seasons worth of games.

If Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead were dropped in to the SANFL during their early years, I am sure they would of had some sort of impact.
How many games does he get maye 0-1 goals a game and under 10 touches after 4 years in the system.

Has he demanded selection this year or last year through sheer form in the SANFL?
Of course not, Hinkley has tried him at the start of the year the last two years and both times he has never imposed himself enough.

Lets not beat around the bush, he is a grown man being paid AFL bucks to play as an AFL player.
At what point do we say, you've had your shot, you didn't do what was needed it's over.

Say you took on an apprentice sparky, after 4 years he still cant work out how to rig a light switch you would sack him.

Why should AFL be any different, hired for a job, hasn't ever looked like really being succesful at it so he gets the sack.

 

[Powerstufff]

expressing your haughty and lily-livered self again.

I do that every post, as you know.
But satisfy my curiosity, when have you been along to watch him play in the SANFL? Not a straight-out dig; I know health, finances, location etc impact on that.

 

[Pedro59]

Conversely can you name any of the better current forwards who wouldn't rip it up playing in the SANFL?

Would Buddy Roughie Kennedy Pav Sav the Reiwoldts etc not have field day?

Like tredders did years ago

I know that I'm comparing established experienced players with a rookie in Butch but the point I'm making is that some argue the SANFL games don't lead to big scores
Or you can't tell how good he is in the SANFL ...put him in the big league and let him learn there.....

I disagree
For the aforementioned reasons I believe it is possible and should be a requirement to light it up at the SANFL level before promotion

And if you can't ... Why would Hinkley promote him?

BTW when I say light it up , I don't mean equaling some average low stat somewhere

 

[edgie]

If Riewoldt, Franklin, Roughead were dropped in to the SANFL during their early years, I am sure they would of had some sort of impact.
How many games does he get maye 0-1 goals a game and under 10 touches after 4 years in the system.

Has he demanded selection this year or last year through sheer form in the SANFL?
Of course not, Hinkley has tried him at the start of the year the last two years and both times he has never imposed himself enough.

Lets not beat around the bush, he is a grown man being paid AFL bucks to play as an AFL player.
At what point do we say, you've had your shot, you didn't do what was needed it's over.

Say you took on an apprentice sparky, after 4 years he still cant work out how to rig a light switch you would sack him.

Why should AFL be any different, hired for a job, hasn't ever looked like really being succesful at it so he gets the sack.

He was not tried this year, he was a last minute emergency call up after a late injury. His form after being dropped last year demanded selection IMO.

If my apprentice Sparky couldn't work a light switch after 4 years of full time work, that would be a problem, but for the analogy to work, he isn't full time, he works on a call in basis, after we try a carpenter and a plumber in his role before resorting to calling him in as last choice.

And to answer your first question/paragraph, I refer to you first word: If. If.

If they were and were leading the leagues goal kicking at the half way point, would that have been enough of an impact?

 

[PA88]

Cannot time a lead to save himself. And now seems to have forgotten what the footy looks like. Last 5 weeks in the SANFL are probably the worst five weeks a PAFC player has ever played.

Yep, last few weeks is poor. He has the most erratic form I've seen.

There have been worse players for Port over the decades. There was one player that went through a season looking like Tarzan but playing like ...

 

[PA88]

I do that every post, as you know.
But satisfy my curiosity, when have you been along to watch him play in the SANFL? Not a straight-out dig; I know health, finances, location etc impact on that.

I don't believe you're looking to satisfy a curiosity.

Nothing I said secured him as having an afl or sanfl future.

 

[Lightning_Rod]

Conversely can you name any of the better current forwards who wouldn't rip it up playing in the SANFL?

Would Buddy Roughie Kennedy Pav Sav the Reiwoldts etc not have field day?

Like tredders did years ago

I know that I'm comparing established experienced players with a rookie in Butch but the point I'm making is that some argue the SANFL games don't lead to big scores
Or you can't tell how good he is in the SANFL ...put him in the big league and let him learn there.....

I disagree
For the aforementioned reasons I believe it is possible and should be a requirement to light it up at the SANFL level before promotion

And if you can't ... Why would Hinkley promote him?

BTW when I say light it up , I don't mean equaling some average low stat somewhere

Nick salter says hello

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Most importantly, has he got his whole tongue back?

 

[El_Scorcho]

The current leading goalkicker in the SANFL is barely averging 2 goals a game btw. It's not a Key Forward league for reasons that have been outlined previously

 

[Jonts]

The current leading goalkicker in the SANFL is barely averging 2 goals a game btw. It's not a Key Forward league for reasons that have been outlined previously

so
thats nothing
the guy going second in the NEAFL goal kicking is a back pocket

 

[edgie]

The current leading goalkicker in the SANFL is barely averging 2 goals a game btw. It's not a Key Forward league for reasons that have been outlined previously

#realfooty where big key forwards kick bags like the good old days!

Oh wait...

 

[philthy05]

Walker , who is a very good forward , and had quite a good solid man build straight out , and was built for sanfl football being 192cm and good at ground level and a long kick which allowed him to get out of fifty and kick for goal from the wings got 56 goals in his sanfl season. That total includes finals , so without seeing the games exactly I think he played 20-25 games. The most dominant performance , from a good afl forward , from a guy built most suitably for the sanfl of any forward going around. Averaged around 2.2 goals a game.

Anyone who thinks that franklin , roughhead , josh Kennedy or nick Riewoldt would have averaged 4 goals a game in the sanfl needs to re-think.

 

[Powerade 08]

A league where key forwards cant kick goals

I am literally loling. Let this thread live forever

 

[Powerade 08]

Walker , who is a very good forward , and had quite a good solid man build straight out , and was built for sanfl football being 192cm and good at ground level and a long kick which allowed him to get out of fifty and kick for goal from the wings got 56 goals in his sanfl season. That total includes finals , so without seeing the games exactly I think he played 20-25 games. The most dominant performance , from a good afl forward , from a guy built most suitably for the sanfl of any forward going around. Averaged around 2.2 goals a game.

Anyone who thinks that franklin , roughhead , josh Kennedy or nick Riewoldt would have averaged 4 goals a game in the sanfl needs to re-think.

Yea if a 17/18yo Taylor Walker can only average 10 goals a game in his first year I can't see how any of those other guys would get a touch.

You've convinced me, where's Peter to write up a new contract.

 

[Jumbo]

 

[El_Scorcho]

A league where key forwards cant kick goals

I am literally loling. Let this thread live forever

lol away, but have a look at what is actually happening first.

A league where due to the fact that the quality of kicking and ball movement hasn't caught up with the team defence which was probably brought to the league when Nathan Bassett started coaching Norwood in 2010, key forwards get less ball and kick less goals.

2015. 9 games in, leading goalkicker on 22 goals.

2014. Ken Farmer Medalist on 67 goals. Only 2 guys over 60 and only 2 more over 50.

2013. Ken Farmer Medalist on 52 goals. One other guy on 50. Nobody else over 40 goals for the season.

2012. Ken Farmer Medalist on 59 goals. Two other guys over 50.

2011. Ken Farmer Medalist on a more respectable 73 goals. Only one other guy over 50, and one more over 40.

2010. Ken Farmer Medalist on 58 goals. Nobody else over 50. Only 2 more guys over 40.

This simply isn't a league in recent years where guys kick hatfuls of goals. It's not even a league where guys kick a lot of bags. It's a league where if you play the whole season and average 2 goals a game, you'll probably place in the Ken Farmer Medal. Deciding that because it's good enough champion level AFL key forwards like Tredders and Taylor Walker to dominate, everybody should be able to is frankly ridiculous.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Yea if a 17/18yo Taylor Walker can only average 10 goals a game in his first year I can't see how any of those other guys would get a touch.

You've convinced me, where's Peter to write up a new contract.

Walker's first year was in 2007, when SANFL football hadn't adopted the sort of AFL style team defence we see today. Pre-Bassett.

Brant Chambers cracked the ton in that year. It was a very different league to be a key forward in.

We're not talking about the quantum physics of football tactics here. There's been a definite shift in game style and the goalkicking has changed accordingly.