Opinion Butcher

[Ford Fairlane]

Butcher won't get the chop if he snags a few more goals. Boom tish!

 

[I Dont Care]

Butcher won't get the chop if he snags a few more goals. Boom tish!

Here is your coat and your hat sir...

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Here is your coat and your hat sir...

I'm outta here

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Butcher might get the chop at seasons end.

Strong user name to post content ratio.

 

[chimmez]

Every time I watch him, I see passages where he shows his talent. He stood up big time in the Showdown - quite an unheralded game for him in my opinion. However, his gap from form to out of form is huge (see North Melbourne), and this is where he needs to improve. Westhoff was in a similar form bracket for a lot of his careers as we'll for what that is worth.

I have a lot of time for Butch, and I hope the club and our fans stick along with the big man. Lots of talent, and improving every week in the sanfl. We have in my opinion the best coaching group to develop these types of players, so with some luck, I'm quite sure that Butch can make quite an AFL career.

 

[Powerstufff]

Strong inverse user name to post content ratio.

FTFY

 

[YoungsterPA]

I'm just happy he's stringing games together and kicking a few goals a game in the sanfl

He will get there eventually just needs his body to not break down

And with burgess that seems to be happening

Onward and upward for butch for his career from now on

 

[Northalives]

Kicking set shots is a combo head and mechanics of his ball drop. The answer I gave about body/confidence is about his all round game at the moment.

I'd get him to spend time with Russell Ebert and learn how to kick a drop kick for fun. Learn how to perfect that kick bio-mechanically, and you can master any kick. Barry Cable gives a great lesson in this video.

All young players and I mean young as in primary school and up, should all be taught how to hold the ball correctly for all the different types of kicks, what angle the ball should be dropped to the boot for each of those kicks and what part of the foot should strike what part of the ball.

Now of course, in senior footy these days, all the kicks they'll learn from a tender young age, except for the drop punt, will not form part of their game however, that is not the point. The point is to "know" the ball and how to handle it to do the things you want it to do: "know" it in a biblical sense if you like.

All kiddies should be taught the drop kick, the stab pass, the drop punt, the screw, the screw punt, the torpedo, the torpedo punt, the flat and the flat punt and what all of these types of kicks are for and how you kick them. The only "modern" kick taught should be the "checkside" kick and they should be made to do five laps of the footy oval if they intentionally kick a grubber and ten laps if they drop the ball across their foot to get it to curve in the air: snapping for goal is another skill to practice when they are good at "proper" kicks. John Butcher would benefit from this type of instruction even at his age.

To see the way kiddies hold the ball trying to kick drop punts in the park is shocking and nearly as sad as the huge decline in the number of kids actually having a kick of the footy in the parks and on the ovals.

PS. The place kick is maybe the only one of the "old" kicks that you wouldn't spend any time on although it could be a real good kick for Butch to use when kicking for goal. There is no law that says you can't use it except for that 20 second, 30 second or whatever-takes-the-umpires-fancy rule for the amount of time one can take for kicking at goal. (It'd be great fun to see someone execute it in a game!).

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

How long did we keep D.Stewart on our list?
How are we going for KPF depth?
How old in the Butch?

Those that think that he is getting the chop are brainless.

 

[Canoogs]

Most of this thread would fit rather appropriately in The graveyard thread for endless off topic posturing on players & coaches causing bi-polar responses.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Ah the good old graveyard thread. Might be time for a comeback.

It doesn't seem that long ago Everyone Loved Butch.

 

[Jdawgz]

I'm glad butch isn't playing atm...yeah he's good decoy for hoff but his kicking is seriously embarrassing, he kicks like a rugby player the way he drops the ball on his foot..can't see him getting a game till he MASTERS his kicking.

 

[PJ Power]

Let's just lay off him for a while. He played a good team game against the Crows and then after a promising first ten minutes against the Roos let himself down with some poor efforts and got promptly dropped. He hasn't set the world alight at SANFL but still averages 3 goals per game and a whole lot more scoring shots.
We don't have a better third option as a tall forward at present so we can't be choosers.
Be patient. He will come good if he continues to play consecutive matches without injury.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Need to stop harping on Butcher's goalkicking. It's not really as bad as some make it out to be and statistically he fairs pretty well.

He has other things to work on, leading for the ball is a big issue for him.

 

[Rising Power]

I'd love to see Butcher come in this week.

An extra tall forward with Hawthorn having to rely on Cheney and Spudenmaker. I like it.

 

[Seanybruz]

Butcher cops a lot of flak about 'running out of time' but if you go club by club he's a better 3rd KPF prospect than most of our top 8 opposition have eg. Geelong Walker/Brown, Pies Lynch, Freo Gumby & Hawks Spangher & O'Brien who will be a gun in time though.

Expansion teams aside Adelaide & Sydney are two of the only exceptions because their 3rd talls are Reid & statistically he's not that much an upgrade on Butch whilst the Crows have Pods/Lynch, the latter is a decent player whereas Pods was mainly brought in as a decoy.

One day it'll click for Butch & we'll see the confident talent that kicked bags against Hawks, Dogs & Bombers. Write him off & there's a chance you could look a little silly looking back at threads like this like some did with Schulz & Lobbe.

 

[Phhht]

Need to stop harping on Butcher's goalkicking. It's not really as bad as some make it out to be and statistically he fairs pretty well.

He has other things to work on, leading for the ball is a big issue for him.

Yup agree wholeheartedly. Butcher's main issues are NOT his kicking.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Barring an off field issue, Butcher is 0% of getting delisted and even entertaining discussion of it is silly.

Even if you have decided that he'll never make it, he's currently our 3rd best KPF and the only KPF we have who isn't getting a regular game with any AFL experience.

 

[Andre]

With the exception of freaks like Wingard and Wines until they get 50 games under their belts players are generally woefully inconsistent. When Butcher gets runs of games and passes 50 games and is still having issues talk about delisting or trading him. Until then we've played other players since the start of last year to get games into them so they improve, where if you purely looked on form they wouldn't. Yet if it's Butcher unless he's kicking a bag each game it's drop and line him up against the wall to shoot.

 

[Hellgood]

Butcher cops a lot of flak about 'running out of time' but if you go club by club he's a better 3rd KPF prospect than most of our top 8 opposition have eg. Geelong Walker/Brown, Pies Lynch, Freo Gumby & Hawks Spangher & O'Brien who will be a gun in time though.

Exactly.

I'd like to know when is 'running out of time'?

Mitch Brown was drafted a couple of years before Butch and Geelong are still hoping he's going to come on. Played a couple of decent games in the AFL this year, although has fallen out of the side and is back in the VFL. Would be surprised if they were willing to give up on him now.

Lachlan Hansen... drafted in 2006, it's been a long, long journey, but right now he is finally producing the sort of footy that justifies his high draft ranking. Should North have given up on him?

Fremantle were still willing to give Scott Gumbleton a chance, despite being perennially injured since the day he was drafted in 2006. When he has played, he's shown plenty of promise - but sadly that's not very often.

Tom Lynch, taken in same draft as Butcher showed absolutely nothing up until last year. Now is a solid contributor for the Crows.

Sam Reid - similar story to Butcher. Great start to his career, but inability to live up to those high benchmarks set early and injuries mean that whilst he still gets a game for the Swans, it's probably moreso on potential than anything else.

Aaron Black spent the first three years or so playing virtually exclusively in the VFL. Looked bloody impressive at times, dominant even.

Our own Justin Westhoff was subject to a heck of a lot of supporter frustration due to his inconsistency - that was up until finding his niche in early 2013 and is now considered one of the best utilities in the AFL.

Then there are easy examples like Vickery and Watts - they cop a lot and often justifiably so, but it would be stupidity to just give up on them when they aren't too far away.

More than happy for us to assess Butcher over another couple of years. He's performing well in the SANFL and has shown some good signs in the AFL in his most recent games. He's far from a certainty, but theres absolutely no gain whatsoever to just give up on him now.

 

[Seanybruz]

I don't think his kicking will be the area of his game that stops him from becoming AFL standard, it's his confidence in his own abilities to perform at the highest level that so far have seen him in/out of the side often.

If you look at a coleman medalist in Cloke he's one of the most inconsistent set shots in the competition, sure his confidence issues aren't anywhere near as bad as Johns because he's reached his prime & is a beast of a man but Travis can be a terrible player on his day this season in particular & he's getting paid $800k a year.

To be honest I'm not all that fussed Butch has had a form hiccup & reality check. When he burst on the scene he was hyped to the hill & getting headhunted by the big wigs in Victoria after just his first contract, now his value isn't high at all he realises how hard he needs to work to crack it in the AFL.

By the time he reaches his peak potential he'll be much more likely to stay after all the faith the club has put into him than if he had kept up that young star status. The main positives I've taken from him this season is his contributions to us dominating in the SANFL, the Butch of the past wouldn't be the focal point he's been this year.

 

[240volt]

So why would Butcher be better playing for a Vic club ?, contradictory post.

How long did it take The Hoff to be where he's at ? How long did it take Tredders ? Without sounding like a broken record, because its been said before so many times it takes KP players time to develop. Jack Watts for Melbourne was the butt of all jokes, he might laugh in the face of adversity and become a very good player. How long has it taken ?

The Butch may never be another Tredders or Wayne Carey, but if he becomes an important tall in our team we fill a void. Give him as long as it takes, until the club or him have had enough.

It took the Hoff about 2 minutes to show something , in his first season up until the finals of 2007 he had been doing very good playing full forward for us.
Like a lot of players after the 2007 Grand Final they just dropped off and lost the plot like our coach did.
I thought this would be Butchers year, a lot of posters said also this is his time to show something but lets be honest, he is still struggling at times playing SANFL.
Its not like he has just walked in the club,he was drafted in 2009 and has played just over 20 games of A.F.L?
Hope he comes good but would not hold my breath.

 

[tribey]

It took the Hoff about 2 minutes to show something , in his first season up until the finals of 2007 he had been doing very good playing full forward for us.
Like a lot of players after the 2007 Grand Final they just dropped off and lost the plot like our coach did.
I thought this would be Butchers year, a lot of posters said also this is his time to show something but lets be honest, he is still struggling at times playing SANFL.
Its not like he has just walked in the club,he was drafted in 2009 and has played just over 20 games of A.F.L?
Hope he comes good but would not hold my breath.

This is essentially his first proper season after finally getting through a full summer training load unscathed. He does need time and it's not as if there aren't a stack of promising signs from week to week.

 

[Schulzenfest]

It took the Hoff about 2 minutes to show something , in his first season up until the finals of 2007 he had been doing very good playing full forward for us.

As opposed to Butcher who showed nothing in his first season?



Westhoff has still never scored 6 goals in a match, FWIW.

 

[FishingRick04]

This is essentially his first proper season after finally getting through a full summer training load unscathed. He does need time and it's not as if there aren't a stack of promising signs from week to week.

I agree completely, IMO it would be foolish to burn Butcher off now when his value is so low anyway. We have scope to hold him on our list, so lets give him every opportunity to succeed, Ah Chee is another I see in that same bracket, under aged recruit, suffered injuries, lets give them time to develop.