Opinion Butcher

[240volt]

Definitely looks okish but it could have been

Pick 5 Polec, Pick 16 Darling, Pick 35 Ben Newton, Pick 36 Aaron Young, Pick 52 Cam O'Shea, Pick 68 (upgraded rookie) Hitchcock, Pick 16 Rookie Draft Tom Jonas

Get on the floor for this one Homer....Pick 5 Polec, Pick 16 Darling Pick 35 or 36 Luke Parker

 

[n4nirvana]

Yes but we should have Trollec and Darling instead of the ignominy of paying pick 16 for squibs Jacobs....dam i'm starting to curl up again

Darling would've been lovely, perfect

But I wonder how we felt about forwards at the time of the 2010 draft

John's breakout game was Round 21, 2011 ... so he was kind of an unknown quantity/potential blue chip leading to 2010

At the time re forwards
1. Club comfortable with Westoff.
2. We traded in Schulz also in 2009
3. D. Stewart was elevated to main list in 2009. During 2009 - he won 4 SANFL players of the week and played well in SANFL elimination final. in 2010 at AFL level - he kicked 12 goals in 11 matches including 4 against Richmond. ? False dawn/sense of KPP security.
4. N. Salter was elevated to main list in 2008. Though he would be played in defence at AFL level in 2010 after kicking 9 goals in 5 games in 2009.
5. We just drafted John Butcher in 2009
6. We, like every other team, fell for the Darling rumours
7. Darling was same size as Nick Salter ? ergo did not fit the Dean Laidley forward profile (Laidley joined September 2009). This might/might not be true as Schulz was similar size but was considered KPP but Salter was not.

So up to 2010 draft
tl/dr was
1. we had schulz and westoff
2. time for butcher
3. alot of faith in d. stewart
4. darling same size as salter so was seen as a Laidley no, no + off field indiscretion/maturity issue

 

[n4nirvana]

Get on the floor for this one Homer....Pick 5 Polec, Pick 16 Darling Pick 35 or 36 Luke Parker

Yay the hindsight game

I see your Parker and raise you a Rory Sloane at pick 42 in the 2008 draft (instead of Mitch Banner) who we were linked to pre-draft

 

[Ford Fairlane]

It's funny how no one ever wants to play the hindsight game the other way.

Mitch Thorp instead of Travis Boak
Clayton Collard instead of Paul Stewart
Garry Moss instead of Robbie Gray
Matthew Ferguson instead of Justin Westhoff.

And that's just 2006! The door slides both ways.

 

[Phhht]

I refuse to like your post 240 coz you're just being mean now!

To be honest, I can accept missing out on guys like Parker, Fasolo GHS etc. They're mids.

But Darling, well thats a different beast.

n4 I can understand that the club at the time had other KPF options and may have been unduly influenced by SkypeCoach but it doesnt make it any easier to swallow that we passed on a potential star KPF. The hardest thing to find in football. We werent willing to risk it coz we wanted an elite kicking squib......dam I'm curling up in the corner again

 

[n4nirvana]

Clayton Collard instead of Paul Stewart

you know the lovely thing about the P. Stewart pick in hindsight
-we picked Stewart at 23 at the time cos apparently/allegedly we were spooked by the crows who had pick 32 - they were also impressed by his ridiculous local combine numbers

-BUT then they used pick 32 to acquire Tippett

and the rest, my friends, is TRIGG-stastic history

 

[Canoogs]

It's funny how no one ever wants to play the hindsight game the other way.

Mitch Thorp instead of Travis Boak
Clayton Collard instead of Paul Stewart
Garry Moss instead of Robbie Gray
Matthew Ferguson instead of Justin Westhoff.

And that's just 2006! The door slides both ways.

But using hindsight to make things worse just isn't anywhere near as much fun!

 

[n4nirvana]

n4 I can understand that the club at the time had other KPF options and may have been unduly influenced by SkypeCoach but it doesnt make it any easier to swallow that we passed on a potential star KPF. The hardest thing to find in football. We werent willing to risk it coz we wanted an elite kicking squib......dam I'm curling up in the corner again

yea i understand, the jacobs selection has been my hang up pick too

but like Ford Fairlane said it can go both ways

= the hindsight/butterfly effect game

What if we did get Darling - we might have scored another win or 2 in 2011-2012 / change the ladder position / upsetting the time space continuum apple cart - meaning Wingard and Wines never became Port players ....

 

[HaroldOliver]

So when Geelong had Mooney and...

Oh, Hawkins. Mooney and Hawkins. Who was no better than Butcher at the same stage.

St Kilda had Riewoldt and... Kozie. Kozie. Who was no better at any stage of his career (possible exaggeration)

Collingwood had Cloke, and Dawes, and maybe Brown.

Fremantle have Pavlich and?

The only team to be a mainstay in the top 4 recently with 2 experienced, performing, KPF are Hawthorn.

Nicely put edgie and I hope you're right.

Just a few points though:
Hypothetically, an injury to one of the above mentioned players may have denied the 2 clubs who won premierships that success (admittedly this is a very long bow to draw for 2007)
Geelong also had Nathan Ablett when they won against us plus Brad Ottens was consistently used as a forward target as King was also a top ruckman.
We really only use Schulz as a forward full time. Westhoff is often in defence.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Correct weight Foot...

You can pick the teeth out of any draft 4 years later. Silly exercise really.

 

[I Dont Care]

Correct weight Foot...

You can pick the teeth out of any draft 4 years later. Silly exercise really.

Agree. You get dealt cards in life, they are the ones you play...no one gets the deck

 

[edgie]

Nicely put edgie and I hope you're right.

Just a few points though:
Hypothetically, an injury to one of the above mentioned players may have denied the 2 clubs who won premierships that success (admittedly this is a very long bow to draw for 2007)
Geelong also had Nathan Ablett when they won against us plus Brad Ottens was consistently used as a forward target as King was also a top ruckman.
We really only use Schulz as a forward full time. Westhoff is often in defence.

Ah, I forgot about Ablett, thanks for pointing that out. He sits in the Toby Thurstans basket of "Grand Final was best ever game", so as a week by week prospect he got overlooked.

Of course an injury to any of those would've greatly affected their premiership campaign, as us fans of the game know, the KPP are the most important to a teams structure, not a 30 possession winning midfielder that the media likes to froth over. Hawk's are the only ones who could dodge that bullet without any bumps, and you could even argue that Franklin was more of a tall half forward than a KPF, not to mention Hale who often sits in the 50.

Take Riewoldt out of the Saints, they screwed. Take Cloke out of Collingwood, no way Dawes could have handled it on his own. Take Mooney out in 07 - 09 and no way Hawkins was ready to be the main man. Take Pavlich out of Freo and it's a ghost town. Take Franklin out in 08, take Tredrea out in 04...

Every team will have a big reliance on these types of players, and they all will want to be developing other players for the role if they don't already have them ready, but there's no way that playing/not playing Butcher is going to affect our standing at the end of the year. Butcher just doesn't impact games that much, people use that as a negative, but the way I see it, he's no difference to winning and losing, as he is to losing and winning. The only way to get him up to standard is for him to play AFL football, and what better team to play in than a high performing one, side by side with one of the best in Schulz? He needs that chance, he needs our faith. Week in, week out, as long as fitness permits.

 

[Ebert80]

As bad as the majority of our drafting was circa 2005-2010, it got us to a certain point - where we were able to select Wingard and Wines.

If we got Darling, we may have finished one or two spots higher in the ladder, and missed out on those 2. Additionally, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't have wanted to have gone back to WA, he seems a bit unstable, and may not have wanted to have stayed during the mess of 2011/12.

You win some, you lose some; lucky for us, we've been able to remedy our train-wreck recruiting/list in a relative short period, and its full steam ahead from here, no looking back.

 

[Powerstufff]

Darling would've been lovely, perfect ...

My first thought on reading that line was that Patsy from Absolutely Fabulous was posting.

 

[tribey]

It's funny how no one ever wants to play the hindsight game the other way.

Mitch Thorp instead of Travis Boak
Clayton Collard instead of Paul Stewart
Garry Moss instead of Robbie Gray
Matthew Ferguson instead of Justin Westhoff.

And that's just 2006! The door slides both ways.

Yeah I hate it.

If every club could pick with 20:20 hindsight every club would be a perfectly balanced dream team provided their development systems were passable.

There are Crows fans who were bitching last year about taking Hodges with the pick immediately before Brent Harvey deep into the draft of 1995. I mean, really? There's no proof anyone but Pagan even knew that the little bastard existed given he was taken so late and every club had passed 2-3 times.

It's the sliding doors ones that were an absolute chance of happening but for a rushed 30 second chat around the table that hurt. Ones like the aforementioned Banner over Sloane, who'd we'd been into harder than no-one else. Or the famous Pavlich miss of 1998. Or picking any one of Alan Stewart's pets over Choppy in 1996.

Ones like taking Danny Morton 2 picks before Adam Goodes went to the Swans are fantasy footy nostalgia.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The Banner over Sloane pick has always been a mystery. We were not linked to Banner as far as I'd heard but plenty of talk about us being right into Sloane. Wonder what happened that day?

There was a story going around after the 1998 draft Bucky asked the recruiters what pick they took Matthew Pavlich with, and it was like Oh well Bucky you see it went like this ...

 

[240volt]

I refuse to like your post 240 coz you're just being mean now!

To be honest, I can accept missing out on guys like Parker, Fasolo GHS etc. They're mids.

But Darling, well thats a different beast.

n4 I can understand that the club at the time had other KPF options and may have been unduly influenced by SkypeCoach but it doesnt make it any easier to swallow that we passed on a potential star KPF. The hardest thing to find in football. We werent willing to risk it coz we wanted an elite kicking squib......dam I'm curling up in the corner again

Some posters will tell you we never needed Darling because we had Butcher never mind lets hope the butch comes good soon and the only Darling to remember will be the one who used to open for South Australia
P.S keep away from corners until seasons end

 

[tribey]

The Banner over Sloane pick has always been a mystery. We were not linked to Banner as far as I'd heard but plenty of talk about us being right into Sloane. Wonder what happened that day?

Who overruled do you think? Did Williams have the last say or was it down to Blair Hartley, he who like most of our Punt Road-bound dregs began life at Richmond as a legendary coup but is now rated about as highly as the newspaper subscription addressed to Pets Paradise (pic insanely related).

There was a story going around after the 1998 draft Bucky asked the recruiters what pick they took Matthew Pavlich with, and it was like Oh well Bucky you see it went like this ...

Yeah, that's the gear-grinder, given Pavlich is actually related to Bucky so you'd think he'd have seen enough of him (talent, character) to know this wasn't exactly a Ryan Pagan situation.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Who overruled do you think? Did Williams have the last say or was it down to Blair Hartley, he who like most of our Punt Road-bound dregs began life at Richmond as a legendary coup but is now rated about as highly as the newspaper subscription addressed to Pets Paradise (pic insanely related).

Just don't know. Choco loved a bit of x-factor and I remember thinking Banner's highlight clip was high on razzle-dazzle while Sloane's was blue-collar workrate.

Bucky thought Pavlich was in the bag before the draft. I wonder if he had even heard of Adam Morgan. I guess all you can say is everyone overlooked the Pav and that was back when you had only one crack at a player in the 17yo age bracket.

 

[Hellgood]

It's funny how no one ever wants to play the hindsight game the other way.

Mitch Thorp instead of Travis Boak
Clayton Collard instead of Paul Stewart
Garry Moss instead of Robbie Gray
Matthew Ferguson instead of Justin Westhoff.

And that's just 2006! The door slides both ways.

Way off topic, but I really rated Garry Moss. He played some very good games for Hawthorn in 2009, but just completely fell off the radar there. Clever and courageous little footballer.

Darling suffered from being so good in the year prior to being drafted. He was playing some seriously good football in the WAFL seniors as a 16 year old. Then obviously there was a number of those fairly minor off field indiscretions (have to remember the context of this time - the tent incident happened same week as Fev got the boot from Carlton following the GF footy show which was followed up over the summer by him copping a punch outside a nightclub). Darling didn't have a particularly good year either in the U18 championships, nor for West Perth so people started querying whether he was tall enough to play as a key forward. Obviously he's turned out to be a gun and obviously we'd love to have him in our side, but I'm not sure that there is anything to be gained whatsoever in continuing to dwell on this hypothetical.

I was reasonably happy with Butcher's game against Carlton and pleased with his performance in the showdown. The North game started promisingly, with that big pack mark in the forward pocket but like half a dozen of our shots on goal that day it had to hit the ****ing post. After that he had an absolute shocker. I was on the fence in regard to dropping him for the Lions game, maybe we've got to back him in to the hilt and have a Bomber Thompson 'Leave him alone, all of you' moment, but then again a three disposal game in the SANFL in a match we dominated is a staggeringly poor return and makes me think how on earth that he can play that way considering he's never had an AFL game as bad as that.

Just gotta keep persisting, I really really hope that he can put up some performances in the SANFL that provide Hinkley and co. with justification to pick him in the AFL again soon. Once he's done that, I think the best course of action would be to give him an extended run - something he hasn't had so far. It's tough to balance the needs of the individual and the needs of the team though.

 

[tribey]

Way off topic, but I really rated Garry Moss. He played some very good games for Hawthorn in 2009, but just completely fell off the radar there. Clever and courageous little footballer.

I believe he was confused with Chin-Chan one too many times for Clarko's liking.

 

[Lou Zyffer]

yea i understand, the jacobs selection has been my hang up pick too

but like Ford Fairlane said it can go both ways

= the hindsight/butterfly effect game

What if we did get Darling - we might have scored another win or 2 in 2011-2012 / change the ladder position / upsetting the time space continuum apple cart - meaning Wingard and Wines never became Port players ....

I do not want to consider this. Makes me feel very uncomfortable.

 

[Jonts]

CONSPIRACY RUMOUR
Heard something from someone within Port Magpies

He said it was a power contracted player who was playing for the magpies on the weekend

(context, it was on a talk about nutrition and game prep)

He was saying this player (he didn't give a name other than the above but wait for it)

Had two of those carbohydrate gels pre game 2 hours (for the first time)

and by the time the game was about to start was on the toilet with the runs and was wanting to pull out, and how he felt lousy all day until the next morning

Someone from the crowd yelled out "that explains Johnny"

The presenter then laughed and had to walk away from the stage out of eye contact

take what you will from that

 

[El_Scorcho]

I really hope the above is true and also that Butch kicks 11 this week.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[jordz82]

Butch just slotted his 5th so far today. Hope he can get a few more to build that confidence