Opinion Butcher

[El_Scorcho]

The old you don't know anything about footy because my opinion differs from yours.....hilarious. Yes he had a few good games last year in a side that dominated the early part of the year. Ended up with 30 goals in a season of SANFL footy....

I like butch, i like the way he goes about it and I want nothing more than for him to step up, but I'm not going to make opinions based on what i like, but what I have seen based on watching live 99% of the games he has played. Yeah you could say he could have been selected against Brisbane last year, and a couple of other times maybe. But the reality is when he has played at afl level he has struggled, and at SANFL level he hasn't forced his selection.

Harvey has already shown more and quite frankly in 1 SANFL game and a few preseason games Howard has also shown enough to say they are ahead right now.

He ended up leading the goalkicking in a side that made the grand final.

Again, the SANFL in 2015 isn't a league where every team has a forward kicking 100 goals. There are like 3 forwards a year that kick over 40 goals these days.

Butcher has played in the AFL at a level of performance you'd expect from a 20 game KPF. Anyone expecting more than what he's done are absolutely delusional and have been spoiled by the fact that our two good AFL level KPFs have come from a zone selection and Richmond not realising what they had.

Harvey hasn't shown more, not yet. He's just in better form at the moment. Butcher has kicked bags at AFL level. He's shown more.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

I will say it again....


Its time...

 

[ZingerB]

Have seen this thread up top all week and avoided dropping in because i thought it would be all herp derp i told yuse butch was a spuddy mcspud delist and im sick of reading it and firing up.

Now i drop in and it is all lets play butch what do we have to lose.

Farkin place full of bipolar campaigners!


For the record my view is as always.....release the butch!!!!

You have the greatest avatar ever!

 

[Zakk Wylde]

I'm just glad they've finally given the Maggies forward line to Harvey... By necessity he was forced to ruck last season.. but this year his form and improvement have been ten fold due to getting the opportunity where he should be played...and that's unfortunately come at the peril of Butch out of the forward line.

 

[Fade to Gray]

I've seen enough of Butch in the SANFL, this year and last. Unfortunately he's not going to make it, doesn't score enough "bread and butter" goals. Is poor on the lead, misjudging the flight of the ball. His marking is OK but it's nit really a strength, but the glaring issue is his set shot kicking, he is close to the worst set shot I have ever seen and has not shown an ounce of improvement since arriving at the club. If he was serious about making it as a Key Forward he should have put far more work into this aspect of his game. I can't understand how a full time professional footballer whose primary responsibility is kicking goals cannot develop a routine with some consistency. I don't care if it's a mechanical Matthew Lloyd "grass throwing" thing. He has no consistency to his routine and as a result completely lacks confidence. From 20m out straight in front he is less than a 50/50 chance of kicking a goal. Regular misses like that are morale sapping. It's time to move on. If a Key Forward was to get a game then Mitch Harvey deserves the spot.

 

[SilenceOz]

I will say it again....


Its time...

Like it was time in 2013?

Or last year?

He has been given games, he couldn't dominate or even put in a massive effort.
It's not like it was one or two bad games. Average effort across the multiple games he's been given has been low.

He is 24 in two weeks, It's not like hes a 19 year old with a bit of a bad kick.
How long do we have to give him before we move on to the younger players that we drafted after him?

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Like it was time in 2013?

Or last year?

He has been given games, he couldn't dominate or even put in a massive effort.
It's not like it was one or two bad games. Average effort across the multiple games he's been given has been low.

He is 24 in two weeks, It's not like hes a 19 year old with a bit of a bad kick.
How long do we have to give him before we move on to the younger players that we drafted after him?

Paul stewart 1 player who is older than butcher and his output?

Sam Gray?



Seeing sarge last week is .... well we need someone else to come through .....dont care about his Sanfl stats....just give him at least 3 - 5 games straight last roll of the dice stuff....

as I said its time

 

[raptalia]

I'm just glad they've finally given the Maggies forward line to Harvey... By necessity he was forced to ruck last season.. but this year his form and improvement have been ten fold due to getting the opportunity where he should be played...and that's unfortunately come at the peril of Butch out of the forward line.

In the side I am looking at Butcher is named at full forward so I don't exactly see your point.

I wish Butcher was named at CHB because I think he needs a career change and he showed against Westies that he can play in defence. Hopefully Hocking will show a bit of foresight, make a change, and continue the Butcher in defence experiment a little longer.

If Butcher showed a bit in a key defensive role I would give him a twelve month extension but if the Club's thinking is, Butcher as an AFL forward or nothing, I would let him walk and concentrate on others.

 

[edgie]

Are you ******* kidding? This is one of the most ******* stupid arguments about anything ever and it consistently gets perpetuated on this board.

He lead the goalkicking over the entire length of the season. He was the one getting on the end of the good work, and we should know pretty well that unless someone actually kicks the goals, it doesn't matter how good the rest of your play is.

It's like saying Robbie Gray didn't have a good year last year because most of his good games came in wins where we were up and about and the entire midfield was playing well so that doesn't really count.

People just don't appreciate a forward who kicks goals anymore.

 

[SilenceOz]

Paul stewart 1 player who is older than butcher and his output?

Sam Gray?



Seeing sarge last week is .... well we need someone else to come through .....dont care about his Sanfl stats....just give him at least 3 - 5 games straight last roll of the dice stuff....

as I said its time

No one's calling for Stewart to be brought in all the time.
He can come in and plug a gap in the list, which is all Stewart is there for and he knows that and we know that.
It's not like we called P Stew the future and have a thread about him on the front page with 3560 posts in it if he should be in the side or not.

Gray plays a completely different role and has had 7 games in his first 2 years.
It's a bit of an off comparison.
Butcher comes in and he is more likely to go missing in a match than he is to put in something decent to show he deserves to be in the AFL side.

How many rolls of the dice is he going to get?

If Ken believes we need another KPF to bring in from SANFL he better bring in Shaw or Harvey in front of Butcher.

Until either of those 2 are ready we have another year or two of Schulz and we have Ryder/Redden [when fit] as a Ruck/KPF.
The team has moved past Butcher, his footy career and body wasn't fair to him but AFL isn't fair.

 

[Forzaport]

It certainly appears that Butcher was given more leniency in 2012/13 than in 2014/15. Maybe that's due to the team being finals contenders or maybe that's due to higher expectations given how long Butcher has been in the system.

I do get the feeling that, barring a major turn around in performance, his time is probably up at Port. 6 years and not much to show for it other than 34 goals in 24 games.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

No one's calling for Stewart to be brought in all the time.
He can come in and plug a gap in the list, which is all Stewart is there for and he knows that and we know that.
It's not like we called P Stew the future and have a thread about him on the front page with 3560 posts in it if he should be in the side or not.

Gray plays a completely different role and has had 7 games in his first 2 years.
It's a bit of an off comparison.
Butcher comes in and he is more likely to go missing in a match than he is to put in something decent to show he deserves to be in the AFL side.

How many rolls of the dice is he going to get?

If Ken believes we need another KPF to bring in from SANFL he better bring in Shaw or Harvey in front of Butcher.

Until either of those 2 are ready we have another year or two of Schulz and we have Ryder/Redden [when fit] as a Ruck/KPF.
The team has moved past Butcher, his footy career and body wasn't fair to him but AFL isn't fair.

In our team right now there is people whose output is worse than Butchers....

In a matter of fact there are Afl teams who persist with fwds that have outputs worse than Butcher....

We have Sarge.....his output this year?......

put Butch in now or never...let him play Westhoffs role...if he fails we have lost nothing.....if he succeeds....

Butch ......its time....

 

[tribey]

No one's calling for Stewart to be brought in all the time.
He can come in and plug a gap in the list, which is all Stewart is there for and he knows that and we know that.
It's not like we called P Stew the future and have a thread about him on the front page with 3560 posts in it if he should be in the side or not.

Stewart isn't a tall forward. Stewart is 28. Stewart came in and played as a spare tall forward despite all his great form at SANFL level coming primarily as a midfielder.

With that said, why are you seemingly fine with Stewart coming in to "plug a gap" - when we have a 23yo key forward who has shown glimpses at AFL level far beyond Stewart's maximum output in the same square peg/round hole role?

What does it matter that the club and his teammates called him 'The Future' in a bid to supply everyone with a modicum of hope at a time when it looked like we were floating down the Ganges? We'd just been beaten by 138 & 165 points in consecutive weeks and avoided our first wooden spoon since 1900 by percentage. Butcher was a shining beacon among all of that - and he decided to stay when he was subject to a huge lure from various Melbourne clubs. The reason why he has sparked such debate is because his ceiling was astronomical once upon a time. And as he seems to have fallen further and further from favour, our selection policy doesn't seem to reflect the metrics that he is seemingly being judged by.

The logic is simple.

It makes absolutely no sense to pick Paul Stewart as a fish-out-of-water faux key forward when we have a younger - albeit enigmatic - option fit and ready to play. If Butcher comes in for a run of 5 games and disappoints, we know. He had a sustained shot and isn't up to it. But if Butcher can come in and have a game or two where he clunks a few contested marks, chases down opponents, gives off a few goals and kicks 2-4 himself what then? He'll have either saved his career at Port Adelaide and offers an option going forward as Jay fades and we wait on Shaw/Harvey, or he's delivered us some trade value should he decide to head back east. We can't lose, even with the least palatable outcome.

Or we could bring Stewart back to essentially be a poor man's Nick Salter in that particular role. Why?

 

[SgtSchulz]

Like it was time in 2013?

Take out Geelong who were a good side and he kicked 1.5 goals a game.

 

[edgie]

And as he seems to have fallen further and further from favour, our selection policy doesn't seem to reflect the metrics that he is seemingly being judged by.

The logic is simple.

It makes absolutely no sense to pick Paul Stewart as a fish-out-of-water faux key forward when we have a younger - albeit enigmatic - option fit and ready to play. If Butcher comes in for a run of 5 games and disappoints, we know. He had a sustained shot and isn't up to it. But if Butcher can come in and have a game or two where he clunks a few contested marks, chases down opponents, gives off a few goals and kicks 2-4 himself what then? He'll have either saved his career at Port Adelaide and offers an option going forward as Jay fades and we wait on Shaw/Harvey, or he's delivered us some trade value should he decide to head back east. We can't lose, even with the least palatable outcome.

Or we could bring Stewart back to essentially be a poor man's Nick Salter in that particular role. Why?

Or we could keep going small, with Hoff and Ryder/Redden to take over from Jay and Hoff eventually. Then, maybe, Ken will blood a proper forward for a sustained perioid, and also give them games if they perform in the SANFL after being omitted, a few years down the track. Hoff is ready for retirement, Ryder is too if he isn't serving a ban, and we 21 game Joe Blow and 12 game John Smith with 40 sasauge rolls between them, ready to step in and lead our attack whilst our middle and defence is primed premiership material.

Or lets just do it now, and start with Butcher, who at the very least and if nothing else, is the most physically prepared of all our reserves KPF for AFL football.

 

[Powerade 08]

Paul stewart 1 player who is older than butcher and his output?

Don't forget, in a lot of those games the opposition played off Butcher and destroyed us going the other way.

Harry Taylor was BOG against us twice that year. 30 touches in the first game and went forward to kick 3 goals in the 2nd game despite us playing all of Butch, Schulz, Westhoff.

Stewart doesn't get in the way of Schulz and Westhoff and doesn't let his opponent rack up touches.

Not that either are much good... it's just Stewart is not as big a liability.

 

[tribey]

Don't forget, in a lot of those games the opposition played off Butcher and destroyed us going the other way.

Harry Taylor was BOG against us twice that year. 30 touches in the first game and went forward to kick 3 goals in the 2nd game despite us playing all of Butch, Schulz, Westhoff.

Stewart doesn't get in the way of Schulz and Westhoff and doesn't let his opponent rack up touches.

Not that either are much good... it's just Stewart is not as big a liability.

Trifle hard to bed in and learn a proper AFL defensive scheme when you haven't played five consecutive games in years, if ever.

Sure Hocking gets to impart whatever he can at the Magpies, but that's like installing a Patriot missile system to prevent your house being egged.

 

[Powerade 08]

learn a proper AFL defensive scheme

In 6 years he hasn't learnt to drop the ball onto his foot properly, or do anything other than run around aimlessly at the Magpies. He is uncoachable.

 

[El_Scorcho]

He's been absolutely fine running both ways in the last few games he's played at AFL level, and his defensive workrate is top notch.

It's a pretty good effort to lead the goalkicking in a grand final team despite apparently being uncoachable and having no idea.

 

[AJJPAFC]

Take out Geelong who were a good side and he kicked 1.5 goals a game.

Another way of looking at it is that we played three decent sides. Geelong, Hawthorn, and Adelaide. And he kicked two goals. Quick, give him 800K stat.

He's had his chance, and he's only produced one belter. He is a failed experiment.

 

[Killer Power]

Another way of looking at it is that we played three decent sides. Geelong, Hawthorn, and Adelaide. And he kicked two goals. Quick, give him 800K stat.

He's had his chance, and he's only produced one belter. He is a failed experiment.

How has he had his chance? That is the entire argument here. Andrew Moore for example has now played over 50 games and most argue he is still building towards being the best player he can be. His improvement has hardly been linear. And yet Butch in a far tougher role is given far fewer chances and many write him off because he has "only produced one belter".

 

[scottjr]

How has he had his chance? That is the entire argument here. Andrew Moore for example has now played over 50 games and most argue he is still building towards being the best player he can be. His improvement has hardly been linear. And yet Butch in a far tougher role is given far fewer chances and many write him off because he has "only produced one belter".

Not that many people saying Andrew Moore is building a game.
I'm hoping the Magpies line up as named this week with Butch at full forward. It will say the club has just tried to get his confidence up letting him run around were ever over the past few weeks. Hopefully he kicks 4 or 5 to justify the suggestion people are making he has something to offer.

 

[LeoMessi]

In our team right now there is people whose output is worse than Butchers....

In a matter of fact there are Afl teams who persist with fwds that have outputs worse than Butcher....

We have Sarge.....his output this year?......

put Butch in now or never...let him play Westhoffs role...if he fails we have lost nothing.....if he succeeds....

Butch ......its time....

Please don't compare Sarge to Butch. Sarge can easily play another 2 years based just on his previous reputation and he's had only one game where his kicking was way off. And Sarge is an absolute master of kicking for goal.

I'm still torn about Butch but the amount of times I've heard "this is Butch's year" and not come to any fruition is getting a bit too much. He was trade bait last year and no one had a look at him. It's a shame but I think this year is the end of the road for his AFL career

 

[LeoMessi]

That said though and it looks as if this year will be a disappointment in terms of finals, I'd like to see him given a go.

 

[rogerjames]

The lack of success in 2 top ten draft picks is really hurting the club. One failure is ok but 2 is a disaster.