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Opinion Butcher

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Malibu#27 said:
I mentioned much earlier, but what he's going through is not as rare as some may think. The only way he can work through it is to keep kicking for goals in games..... the training will help with technique, but until he can line up for goal and not have the self doubt/negativity floating around its always going to be there.
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I read that and think well why not bloody well practice your in-match-situation set shots in SANFL games, then I remember he's been played down back in the SANFL this year. The club don't seem to agree with you...
 
Portology said:
I read that and think well why not bloody well practice your in-match-situation set shots in SANFL games, then I remember he's been played down back in the SANFL this year. The club don't seem to agree with you...
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I can only answer that with my own experience.
In another sport I have had similar issues - having been doing something really well for 20 years or so (to the point I was a constant in association senior rep sides), almost overnight something went wrong to the point I could no longer perform the skill in games .... meanwhile at practice I have absolutely no problem whatsoever.
Its blatantly clear the issue is/was all in my head, but knowing its a mental issue, and actually fixing it are two different things. You look for reasons, over analyse etc to the point that when trying to perform the skill in games your body simply locks up ... its virtually the same thing John is going through - albeit - on a national stage with the associated ridicule.
 
Portology said:
I read that and think well why not bloody well practice your in-match-situation set shots in SANFL games, then I remember he's been played down back in the SANFL this year. The club don't seem to agree with you...
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That itself is a bit of a strange one. You would think there would be some instruction from Ken or someone from the power to have him played up forward more. To me it looks like the Magpies have given up on him being a forward. I think we are just flogging a dead horse and I can't even say time will tell because he's had plenty of time.
 

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Malibu#27 said:
I can only answer that with my own experience.
In another sport I have had similar issues - having been doing something really well for 20 years or so (to the point I was a constant in association senior rep sides), almost overnight something went wrong to the point I could no longer perform the skill in games .... meanwhile at practice I have absolutely no problem whatsoever.
Its blatantly clear the issue is/was all in my head, but knowing its a mental issue, and actually fixing it are two different things. You look for reasons, over analyse etc to the point that when trying to perform the skill in games your body simply locks up ... its virtually the same thing John is going through - albeit - on a national stage with the associated ridicule.
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correct - it is the same with all sports, a test batsman that is out of form on the pitch and is always carving it up in the nets and a basketballer doesn't miss a shot at practice. In fact, the principle can be applied to business, politics et al.
 
I think Ken summed up a lot in his press conference, which is worth watching.

Q - He's got everything apart from that kicking.

Ken - So he hasn't got everything?

Q - Everything else.. the fundamentals of that kicking, do you just work with what he's got and try and get the best out of it?

Ken - I look at it, and he does too, every week and we're always tinkering. And we're always trying to help him get to the point he needs to but his biggest battle is neck up and he knows that and he's working on it. Like I say, he hasn't given up on the work and that's what he should be proud of, that he's prepared to keep working at it. I question anyone in this room to deal with the pressure that John Butcher has to deal with and be able to respond too much better than he has. He's a professional footballer though and he's got to learn to deal with it.
 
In all my years of watching footy I must say honestly I have never seen a worse kick than John. He makes Leon Milde look like Royce Hart. Its amazing he is not only on a AFL list but he can get a game with that kicking action. I seriously can't think of anyone ever like him,maybe we should keep him because there will never be another one like him.
 
240volt said:
In all my years of watching footy I must say honestly I have never seen a worse kick than John. He makes Leon Milde look like Royce Hart. Its amazing he is not only on a AFL list but he can get a game with that kicking action. I seriously can't think of anyone ever like him,maybe we should keep him because there will never be another one like him.
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You'd have to say Lloyd got close - he even was made to practice his set shots at half time by sheedy
 
240volt said:
In all my years of watching footy I must say honestly I have never seen a worse kick than John. He makes Leon Milde look like Royce Hart. Its amazing he is not only on a AFL list but he can get a game with that kicking action. I seriously can't think of anyone ever like him,maybe we should keep him because there will never be another one like him.
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Fair call.
He simply wont be worth persevering with if he cant find some improvement i think most people are hoping.
 

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I really hope he can turn his set shots around because his general field kicking is more than acceptable and we definitely look better up forward with him in the side.
I've always been a "cup half full" kinda bloke so I still have faith that he can make it. I can still recall cringing every time the great Tredders lined up for goal in his early years and can also recall the Mattress being a diabolical set shot until his latter years. In his last 2-3 years Matty Primus still had an awful kicking style but made it work and became pretty reliable.
I'd love Butch to get his sh*t together so when he's lining up for goal I can take a leak, sip my beer or chat with a mate the same way I do when Chad or Jay are having a shot!
There's still plenty of x-factor about Butch and you need x-factors to win flags!
 
240volt said:
In all my years of watching footy I must say honestly I have never seen a worse kick than John. He makes Leon Milde look like Royce Hart. Its amazing he is not only on a AFL list but he can get a game with that kicking action. I seriously can't think of anyone ever like him,maybe we should keep him because there will never be another one like him.
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Paul Northeast?
 
240volt said:
That itself is a bit of a strange one. You would think there would be some instruction from Ken or someone from the power to have him played up forward more. To me it looks like the Magpies have given up on him being a forward. I think we are just flogging a dead horse and I can't even say time will tell because he's had plenty of time.
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The Magpies lost Austin and Clurey for different games during the year. Howard was just returning and so was Frampton. Masters was having to be a general down back with about 3 games experience. Frampton would not have been the best option to play back, Howard is and eventually has been switching between forward and back, and that left Shaw and Butcher to have to move down back. Shaw did play a couple of games in defence much to our surprise but Butcher was our best option (experienced sanfl player and older than the other blokes to take on the role) and apart from a horrible first half at Centrals for the first go at that position, he really improved. In fact I thought that he looked like he was lapping up the role and occasionally sneaked up forward to seal a goal or two in a game. Under the sanfl rules we will be hamstrung like this, that is having to play players in unfamiliar positions.
 

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240volt said:
In all my years of watching footy I must say honestly I have never seen a worse kick than John. He makes Leon Milde look like Royce Hart. Its amazing he is not only on a AFL list but he can get a game with that kicking action. I seriously can't think of anyone ever like him,maybe we should keep him because there will never be another one like him.
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As others have said, his kicking has gone backwards. He should watch a bit of this - when he was drafted. At least he kicked through the ball! The other thing is that he was the main man - so was much more confident
 
I know Lindsay Thomas from the Roos is in Adelaide for a majority of the Roos off season, maybe Butch sounding him out for a bit of advice on his goal kicking woes a few years ago maybe an option. Not saying any miracles will happen but could help.
Thats if you mob keep him on the list obviously
 
The Smaller Warrior said:
Yeah I actually agree with this.

I do know, Butch practices his kick more than anyone at the club by a long, long margin.

During training, at the club and during practice his kick is fine - not perfect but it's far better than what we have all come used to seeing. I think the confidence can continue to come through games, and fitness will come through another full preseason.
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The club should get John work on his set shots straight after putting him through some intensive running. The more he practices his set shots while catching his breath, the better he'll get.
 
His kicking issues are mostly mental. Sure his technique stinks but I've seen some good kicks over the years with awful technique.

They are probably working on technique and on the mental side by visualising and focusing on his routine. He should keep working as hard as he can on those things. Personally I would have him thinking about something else other than technique or a routine when he lines up.

It might sound silly to some but I would have him working on his ego. On his frame of mind about himself. Butcher has a self confidence issue. A performance issue. What he doesn't have is an ability issue. He needs a sports psychologist. He needs some more FIGJAM, ruthlessness and aggression to his on field mind set.

I also think he was so good early in his career because he had none of the self confidence issues nor the performance anxiety he has now. He still has the same ability as he did then. In his first half a dozen games he was in 'kick it to me, I got this' mode.

I see a player with very little self confidence who competes extremely well with a terrible set shot kick. With some self confidence I can see a player who could dominate. This is the conundrum that is Johnny Butcher. So the question is, can he be fixed? I think he can but history and evidence to date says he can't.

Work on his belief in himself, his emotions and kicking skills. I say keep him as he is still our best back up KPF. He gives you a contest and is rarely beaten.
 
carnthemaggies said:
As others have said, his kicking has gone backwards. He should watch a bit of this - when he was drafted. At least he kicked through the ball! The other thing is that he was the main man - so was much more confident
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He didn't have to work as hard to get a mark then.
 
Even with a dodgy kick for goal he's been pretty handy. Rare to get a guy that tall who is so agile; I've also noticed he's hitting packs that much harder than what he has these past couple years. Imagine a confident Butch, demanding the ball, splitting packs, giving the quick hands to our small forwards when the ball hits the deck (which is a strength of his); we'll have a tall forward line with Dixon so his agility once the ball hits the deck and his strengths suit the modern game... he's no dinosaur.

His kicking can't get any worse and he's still proving useful, have we even lost a game with him in the side this year? At the very least he's proven a very valuable role player, a guy whose net value to the team is greater than his individual stats would suggest; he had what 10+ score involvements? Difference is this role player's got upside. Plus how much fun is it watching games with him in it. Don't think I've ever barracked this hard for a player.
 
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