Opinion Butcher

[BrockBlitz]

I love Butch but he would have to have the highest rate of did not scores in the AFL

L. Thomas gave it a nudge for a while there

 

[Powerstufff]

L. Thomas gave it a nudge for a while there

Jetta too. But they did score points.

 

[edgie]

Tredrea had his fair share of goal less and 1 goal games.

Makes his 549 goals and average of over 2 look even more impressive.

 

[Powerade 08]

Seriously?

No.

 

[Dylan8]

Are you implying Butcher is a bad kick for goal? because his AFL conversion rate is excellent - 36 goals 17 behinds

Stats don't lie

 

[tribey]

Tredrea had his fair share of goal less and 1 goal games.

Makes his 549 goals and average of over 2 look even more impressive.

Spent the last 5 years of his career on a knee that he was recommended he retire on, too.

And now, at age 37, he can no longer physically run on it.

 

[scottjr]

Stats don't lie

Lies Dammed Lies and Statistics


Most of your get rich quick cons use statistics to suck people in.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

for butch we need 4 categoris.
goals
Behinds
Out of bounds
Fell short

then we will see a closer picture to the truth.

 

[Ando39]

for butch we need 4 categoris.
goals
Behinds
Out of bounds
Fell short

then we will see a closer picture to the truth.

Are these stats actually available anywhere? Because I would be really interested in knowing. The thing is, as long as the ball isnt going out on the full, and we're still in a position to convert from one of his set shots (a bit like Neade in the 2nd against Freo) then the problem isnt actually as bad as it seems.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

for butch we need 5 categories.
goals
Behinds
Out of bounds
Fell short
ball missed foot

then we will see a closer picture to the truth

Just editied to include a 5th category

 

[croweyrocks]

Can't we just accept he is one of the worst kicks for goal in the league. His stats are looking good because it doesn't count the out on the fulls and the ones that drop short. He's a great contested mark that puts great pressure on his opponent defensively. He has proven that he makes our team better with these 2 great attributes. I really like his strengths and he should get another year on the list. But let's be real people- his kick is below average (but we know he will keep working on it)

 

[NoddyHolder]

Last week we saw 2 teams lose finals due to inaccurate goal kicking on quite simple set shots. Plus Richmond stayed in the game way too long due to it.

That is all I have to say. I shall not be replying to comments.

Will you respond to questions?

 

[Robbie4PM]

Not replying to comments is the mark of someone who doesn't have any conviction in what he's saying. Gutless rubbish.

Late in a final, if we're down by less than a kick and the opponent has 18 men in our defensive 50, we want a player who can give us a genuine pack marking target. We wont be finding Schulz on the lead and they most certainly wont be letting Westhoff slip into space. There is value in someone who can make kicking the ball to the hotspot dangerous instead of the instant turnover we've seen a lot of this year.

A competitive, physical player wreaking havoc in our forward 50 makes us so much more dangerous. It brings our smalls into the game, it creates space for his teammates. We're a better team with Butcher in the side regardless of his inability to convert set shots.

It was more that I get ridiculous replies like the one from Powerade or people that rather abuse than come with decent points.

Anyway happy to reply to you Scorch

First of all, late in the final do you really want Butcher lining up. I know it is important for someone to compete in the air and I think Ryder, Chad, Ah Chee and Dixon* have all shown they are more than capable of a decent pack mark. Also when Port Adelaide play their brand of football we don't kick to contests its all about finding that space in the forward line on the break, that is something we obviously really struggled with this year.

I know what you are saying but I just don't want to see someone we can't rely upon to kick from 20m out every time playing for our team. Half his work will go to nothing and we have seen what happens to teams who don't kick straight, goes back up the other end and they often end up losing the game.

I also don't actually rate Butchers pack work as highly as people do on here. He was outstanding against in the air against Fremantle, but I think we have to ignore that considering they had a second rate team out on the field. His pack work other than that game was nothing special this year and if he's going to kick like he does I think his marking would have to be elite.

Anyway you guys will get your wish and he will get another contract because we have basically no back up key forwards at the moment. I personally think we need to get more than just Dixon in the off season, unless Ryder and Lobbe can sort their shit out together.

 

[Chrizzt]

Butcher's pack work has always been quite good, and that has to do with the fact that he's very good at reacting to where the ball is going and getting to it, but not so good at demanding positions where he wants the ball delivered.
The vast majority of the marks he takes i50 aren't hitups of leads, but either pack marks or grabbing them when one of our players is just kicking i50 to a free position.
The opportunistic marks are almost the opposite of what Schulz does (these days), in that he rarely ever takes an opportunistic mark but rather gets hit up on his good leads.

 

[NoddyHolder]

Didnt see a second of butch the other day.. Were any of his goals from a set shot?

Stats say he took zero marks and he was bog?

Two soccers off the ground from the square and a snap on the run through traffic. All really good goals though. He had to work hard and intelligently for all of them - no joe-the-gooses. He single handedly kept us in touch in the first quarter and got us close, giving us a chance to pinch the game in the last.
It was a very blustery day, not conducive to lots of marking but he did drop a couple he should have held on to. The goal he kicked in the last was a result of him crashing a big pack in the forward pocket, bringing the ball to ground and receiving an outstanding quick handball from Billy Frampton which beautifully released him towards goal. He had to dodge and weave defenders before kicking across the body, over hands to kick the goal.
After kicking our only two goals in the first quarter he was switched into defence for the whole second quarter - not sure why but they were juggling Butch, Frampton and Dougal as tall forwards, making us top heavy in the conditions.
I thought he had a great game but his bog was probably as much a reflection of how poor our entire midfield was as anything. Mitchell and Moore were atrocious and if either of them had played a half decent game we probably would have won.

 

[Robbie4PM]

Two soccers off the ground from the square and a snap on the run through traffic. All really good goals though. He had to work hard and intelligently for all of them - no joe-the-gooses. He single handedly kept us in touch in the first quarter and got us close, giving us a chance to pinch the game in the last.
It was a very blustery day, not conducive to lots of marking but he did drop a couple he should have held on to. The goal he kicked in the last was a result of him crashing a big pack in the forward pocket, bringing the ball to ground and receiving an outstanding quick handball from Billy Frampton which beautifully released him towards goal. He had to dodge and weave defenders before kicking across the body, over hands to kick the goal.
After kicking our only two goals in the first quarter he was switched into defence for the whole second quarter - not sure why but they were juggling Butch, Frampton and Dougal as tall forwards, making us top heavy in the conditions.
I thought he had a great game but his bog was probably as much a reflection of how poor our entire midfield was as anything. Mitchell and Moore were atrocious and if either of them had played a half decent game we probably would have won.

From what I have heard, both soccer goals were from dropped marks of his. I'm not trying to put a negative spin on what you have said but you have put a very positive spin on it...

 

[El_Scorcho]

It was more that I get ridiculous replies like the one from Powerade or people that rather abuse than come with decent points.

Anyway happy to reply to you Scorch

First of all, late in the final do you really want Butcher lining up. I know it is important for someone to compete in the air and I think Ryder, Chad, Ah Chee and Dixon* have all shown they are more than capable of a decent pack mark. Also when Port Adelaide play their brand of football we don't kick to contests its all about finding that space in the forward line on the break, that is something we obviously really struggled with this year.

I know what you are saying but I just don't want to see someone we can't rely upon to kick from 20m out every time playing for our team. Half his work will go to nothing and we have seen what happens to teams who don't kick straight, goes back up the other end and they often end up losing the game.

I also don't actually rate Butchers pack work as highly as people do on here. He was outstanding against in the air against Fremantle, but I think we have to ignore that considering they had a second rate team out on the field. His pack work other than that game was nothing special this year and if he's going to kick like he does I think his marking would have to be elite.

Anyway you guys will get your wish and he will get another contract because we have basically no back up key forwards at the moment. I personally think we need to get more than just Dixon in the off season, unless Ryder and Lobbe can sort their shit out together.

I tend to agree that he probably falls back out of the best 22 if we get Dixon and retain Schulz, because Dixon can play that role.

Ryder is the only pack mark who is close. We can talk about playing Port Adelaide footy all we want, but the opposition sides stopped us from doing that all year, clogging up our forward line so we had no space to find. This is why Butcher became so valuable. Someone who can regularly win or at least halve contests when a high ball comes into a crowded forward line.

I'd agree that his pack work isn't at the elite level yet, but he's a natural at it, and even at his low level of experience, he's much, much better than anyone else in our starting 22. Imagine if he had another 50 games in him.

 

[NoddyHolder]

From what I have heard, both soccer goals were from dropped marks of his. I'm not trying to put a negative spin on what you have said but you have put a very positive spin on it...

from memory, given the conditions and delivery at the time, they were ones that it was no surprise the ball ended up on the deck - but would have been nice if he clunked them.

At sanfl level i'd like to see him take every opportunity possible to take set shots for goal - and take them conventionally, no playing on or kicking stevie j style from 45% angles. The pressure on him in the sanfl while kicking for goal could possibly be even worse than in the afl. At Adelaide oval the crowd's on his side in the sanfl every opposition halfwit's leaning over the fence spitting bile at him and he would hear every word. Even the 'Maggies' supporters are a fair bit tougher on him than the afl crowd.

 

[Robbie4PM]

I tend to agree that he probably falls back out of the best 22 if we get Dixon and retain Schulz, because Dixon can play that role.

Ryder is the only pack mark who is close. We can talk about playing Port Adelaide footy all we want, but the opposition sides stopped us from doing that all year, clogging up our forward line so we had no space to find. This is why Butcher became so valuable. Someone who can regularly win or at least halve contests when a high ball comes into a crowded forward line.

I'd agree that his pack work isn't at the elite level yet, but he's a natural at it, and even at his low level of experience, he's much, much better than anyone else in our starting 22. Imagine if he had another 50 games in him.

Chad does take the occasional hanger and I think Arch took a few in the couple full games he got. I know teams stopped us but if we are going to win games of football we are going to have to be better than that and not let them stop us. If they stop our run we aren't going to win games of football no matter who is in the forward line. Our game style completely revolved around run, we need to sort out why we aren't getting it, I don't think playing 2, 200cm forwards is the answer to our problems.

He has been in the system for 6 years, I am not sure we can say he's an inexperienced footballer anymore, maybe at AFL level but you need to prove you can dominate a SANFL game first before you should be moving into the AFL team.

 

[1954]

from memory, given the conditions and delivery at the time, they were ones that it was no surprise the ball ended up on the deck - but would have been nice if he clunked them.

At sanfl level i'd like to see him take every opportunity possible to take set shots for goal - and take them conventionally, no playing on or kicking stevie j style from 45% angles. The pressure on him in the sanfl while kicking for goal could possibly be even worse than in the afl. At Adelaide oval the crowd's on his side in the sanfl every opposition halfwit's leaning over the fence spitting bile at him and he would hear every word. Even the 'Maggies' supporters are a fair bit tougher on him than the afl crowd.

3 goals from any forward on a windy day when your midfield is getting smacked is a good return in a losing team, no matter how he got them.
Agree re the abuse, I ventured over to the outer of Alberton near the Dad's army bar last season, and the abuse Butch copped there from mainly young blokes wearing full Maggie's gear was unbelievable!

 

[Killer Power]

Lies Dammed Lies and Statistics


Most of your get rich quick cons use statistics to suck people in.

Only 7/10 do. The other 3/10 use hypnotic hair pieces.

 

[Powerage]

He has been in the system for 6 years, I am not sure we can say he's an inexperienced footballer anymore, maybe at AFL level but you need to prove you can dominate a SANFL game first before you should be moving into the AFL team.

Like Tredders did?

 

[carnthemaggies]

for butch we need 5 categories.
goals
Behinds
Out of bounds
Fell short
ball missed foot

then we will see a closer picture to the truth

Just editied to include a 5th category

I was gonna say - count airys too and 'off of shin'!

 

[edgie]

Jay has one down year, one where he was the only forward to have the shepparding rule paid against him, and he can't take a pack mark? Please.

I acknowledge he needs a good run at it and the kick to be ideal, but once he hits a pack and gets his hands to it it sticks. His lack of contested grabs this year was a product of the stagnant movement and hospital delivery in our forward line, forcing him to stand on the spot getting scragged and jumped over, which isn't his strength (although he did injure Lake doing this, a so called gorilla full back!)

Having 2 KPFs allows one to come over the back and crash the pack and maybe even mark in these situations when one is planted, as Butcher done multiple tines vs Freo when Sarge was stationary and out numbered.

 

[Robbie4PM]

Like Tredders did?

now you're comparing Butcher to Tredders

Who invited this guy?