Bye round - few days of reflection before the action starts!

[John Who]

In a rather subdue day, in the early start of the Spring season, it has got me pondering...this year has been a year of many firsts for our club:
1. Best ever start in the early rounds, 6-0.
2. Confusing medical report on a player (Jenkins): Was it a rib, was it not a rib, was it a bird or was it a fracture? which is it???
3. 2 x appendicitis (in the same year!)

Any other interesting things going on? Unleash some random thoughts and get it out of your system before the true action begins in 4 days!

 

[CrowBloke]

Hmmm ... I'll bite.

My biggest worry is that the Crows will think, either before or during the game,
1) "We should win this" or 2) "We should win this from here".
It feels like I've seen it happen over the years, and this year, too. It's observable in the way they warm up, all smiley and laughing, then they overhandle the ball, too much handball and back over-the-head stuff, one bounce too many, little fluffy (hospital) chip-kicks which float to vulnerable recipients, wishful bombs into the 50 ...
1) eg NM, they went down there complacent, expecting to win on the back of a whirlwind 6-0 start, did not research the ground/wind/stadium-sheltered-side and played really dumb wet-weather footy against a side which had a plan and executed it to a man (plus their coach is the twin brother of the bloke who had consistently engineered wins against us). "We should win this" = bad loss.
2) eg next game, vs Melbourne (soooo happy they did not make the 8 --- their misery was joyful to me) when we got (I think) 29 points up, it looked like they assumed they were winners and stopped doing many of the things that got them up in the first place. Result? Dees kicked the next 9 goals, end of game. "We should win this from here" = another bad loss.

It can be argued that we've learned from that, but I didn't see too much of it in the last game. Yeah, there were good reasons for that too.

If we play with the mindset and relentless pressure that we exerted vs Geelong and Sydney at home, nobody will beat us. That's a big IF, because any less than that --- which would stem from any kind of mental relaxation/complacency at nearly any stage of a final --- and we're done.

 

[John Who]

Hmmm ... I'll bite.

My biggest worry is that the Crows will think, either before or during the game,
1) "We should win this" or 2) "We should win this from here".
It feels like I've seen it happen over the years, and this year, too. It's observable in the way they warm up, all smiley and laughing, then they overhandle the ball, too much handball and back over-the-head stuff, one bounce too many, little fluffy (hospital) chip-kicks which float to vulnerable recipients, wishful bombs into the 50 ...
1) eg NM, they went down there complacent, expecting to win on the back of a whirlwind 6-0 start, did not research the ground/wind/stadium-sheltered-side and played really dumb wet-weather footy against a side which had a plan and executed it to a man (plus their coach is the twin brother of the bloke who had consistently engineered wins against us). "We should win this" = bad loss.
2) eg next game, vs Melbourne (soooo happy they did not make the 8 --- their misery was joyful to me) when we got (I think) 29 points up, it looked like they assumed they were winners and stopped doing many of the things that got them up in the first place. Result? Dees kicked the next 9 goals, end of game. "We should win this from here" = another bad loss.

It can be argued that we've learned from that, but I didn't see too much of it in the last game. Yeah, there were good reasons for that too.

If we play with the mindset and relentless pressure that we exerted vs Geelong and Sydney at home, nobody will beat us. That's a big IF, because any less than that --- which would stem from any kind of mental relaxation/complacency at nearly any stage of a final --- and we're done.

Thanks for the 'bite'! I think you summarised well our 2 best wins and 2 worst losses for the year. Hopefully, the boys can pump themselves up with the mongrel mindset like the Cats win and the recent Swans game (but start better and kick straighter!).
On a side note, has there ever been a first week of Spring in Adelaide, that's more wintry than a cold week during Winter? If it's wet and cold this Thursday, might actually play more in our favor though!

 

[CrowBloke]

has there ever been a first week of Spring in Adelaide, that's more wintry than a cold week during Winter? If it's wet and cold this Thursday, might actually play more in our favor though!

Personally, I like these Antarctic blasts of cold which remind me of Winter when I was a kid, even if it is Spring.
More relevantly, I think the Crows play wet-weather footy at AO really well (gotta disregard the NM game where they played dumb w-w footy). I doubt that GWS will be happy in the c-c-c-cold.

 

[Rotayjay]

A John Who/CrowBloke dialogue

Personally, I'd summarise the upcoming campaign thus: we're three good games away from a premiership, but only one bad game away from squandering the opportunity. My greatest fear is that Geelong or Sydney smash us due to superior experience.

At the moment we can't really look too far past Thursday night because winning without Sloaney is going to be tough. No point in denying that.

 

[John Who]

A John Who/CrowBloke dialogue

Personally, I'd summarise the upcoming campaign thus: we're three good games away from a premiership, but only one bad game away from squandering the opportunity. My greatest fear is that Geelong or Sydney smash us due to superior experience.

At the moment we can't really look too far past Thursday night because winning without Sloaney is going to be tough. No point in denying that.

Well my hunch is that Sloaney will play. If he can run around pain-free by tomorrow, he will play. In fact, if he plays on Thursday, I'd expect him to be amongst the best players and kick a couple of goals as he usually does when he's really pumped for a game!
We have shown this year, the medical staff have done wonders during a player's recovery from injuries/illnesses, so if we end up going all the way, we should be thanking the Crow's medical/hospital staff and the IV drips!

 

[Rear Admiral]

Hmmm ... I'll bite.

My biggest worry is that the Crows will think, either before or during the game,
1) "We should win this" or 2) "We should win this from here".
It feels like I've seen it happen over the years, and this year, too. It's observable in the way they warm up, all smiley and laughing, then they overhandle the ball, too much handball and back over-the-head stuff, one bounce too many, little fluffy (hospital) chip-kicks which float to vulnerable recipients, wishful bombs into the 50 ...
1) eg NM, they went down there complacent, expecting to win on the back of a whirlwind 6-0 start, did not research the ground/wind/stadium-sheltered-side and played really dumb wet-weather footy against a side which had a plan and executed it to a man (plus their coach is the twin brother of the bloke who had consistently engineered wins against us). "We should win this" = bad loss.
2) eg next game, vs Melbourne (soooo happy they did not make the 8 --- their misery was joyful to me) when we got (I think) 29 points up, it looked like they assumed they were winners and stopped doing many of the things that got them up in the first place. Result? Dees kicked the next 9 goals, end of game. "We should win this from here" = another bad loss.

It can be argued that we've learned from that, but I didn't see too much of it in the last game. Yeah, there were good reasons for that too.

If we play with the mindset and relentless pressure that we exerted vs Geelong and Sydney at home, nobody will beat us. That's a big IF, because any less than that --- which would stem from any kind of mental relaxation/complacency at nearly any stage of a final --- and we're done.

Hopefully, the boys can pump themselves up with the mongrel mindset like the Cats win and the recent Swans game (but start better and kick straighter!).

Some good comments above, and glad this thread was created.

I was shooting the sh*t with some people recently - just some general issues about Pyke and the Crows. One thing I heard was sort of related to something that I've been thinking about. And it's regarding Don Pyke possibly having shown all his cards, in regards to player moves, tactics, etc. In some of the games we've lost, some of them have definitely been because of lack of effort and intensity from the players, no doubt about it. And two that spring to mind were our losses to Melbourne and North Melbourne. But having said that, there have been other losses where I contribute a fair portion of blame to the coaching group. In particular, some of our past losses to Geelong. For longer than I can remember, Chris Scott has regularly dropped numbers back in Defence, and not just one extra man. But despite this, we regularly dispatched long bombs into our Forward Line, right into the arms of Geelong's extra Defenders. And this is just one example of not being willing to make bold changes. It was only in our more recent game against Geelong where Pyke clearly changed his instructions to the players, in regards to the where/how of moving the ball forward. There were many, many short/medium passes - not just into the Forward Line, but all over the paddock. Players were nailing 20-30m passes for the whole game, rather than the big up-and-unders. Make no mistake, this effort from the players was the best I'd seen in years, in terms of aggression and intensity. But there was a major shake up in tactics from Pyke - probably more than ever before.

When Finals roll around, it's a whole different ballgame, and as Blighty showed in 1997 - 1998....to win Finals, sure you gotta take the pace and intensity to a whole other level. But it's so much more than that. A big part of the reason we won those two Flags was because Blight made some major changes to player positioning and tactics, part way through the game. He didn't start ranting and raving, chucking chairs against walls, no. He seriously shuffled the deck and made changes. So for us to win these Finals, if we're on the front foot and setting the tone, then we obviously just keep pushing ahead with it. But if we're on the back foot, we can't keep backing in specific players that may be getting beaten in their positions. Pyke has to seriously have "Plan B" and "Plan C" up his sleeve, beyond just telling the players to work harder. I don't care what it is....

Move The Sloane Ranger to Full Forward, or have him as a rebounding Half Back.
Or move Luke Brown out of Defence and into the Middle.
Or put Tex as a loose man in Defence.
....or whatever changes need to be made, as bizarre as they may be.

I remember years ago in one of Hawthorn's Grand Finals they won - they put Stewie Dew at Full Forward. And what an effect that made. It's that out-of-left-field approach you need to win Finals Footy....not same ol', same ol. Finals Footy is a whole different ballgame, where you need to be willing to try anything. Obviously you have a reasonable idea of how the players line up at the opening bounce, but if the opposition gets in front and just keeps extending the lead, then Pyke has to make a change. One thing I especially want to see is Pyke being willing to play defensively and slow up the game, if needed, to take the wind out of the opposition's sails.

Like my mate said previously - we can only hope that Pykey hasn't shown all his cards just yet....and is willing to shuffle the deck chairs boldly. Like it says below:

"If we keep doing what we're doing...."

If there was ever a time for the playing group to watch those two clips, now would be that time. Time to Redefine Impossible....starting now.

 

[CrowBloke]

But having said that, there have been other losses where I contribute a fair portion of blame to the coaching group. In particular, some of our past losses to Geelong.

Really interesting and thoughtful post .
On the point quoted, as much as the buck stops with Pyke (it's his neck on the block if we fail badly), he's not "responsible" for losses/wins before he took over (obviously) nor since the start of 2016. The players have to at least share responsibility, especially if they know/understand what Pyke wants but fail to execute. Yes, Pyke should have reviewed previous losses to Geelong. He probably did, but the game plan would not have been to bomb the ball into our F50 where multiple (loose) Geelong defenders were waiting. The Crows did that under pressure, so kudos to Geelong (players).

It was only in our more recent game against Geelong where Pyke clearly changed his instructions to the players, in regards to the where/how of moving the ball forward.

I suspect it had to do with the players finally executing Pyke's instructions, as well as his own willingness to change. There certainly seemed to be greater effort/toughness/mongrel shown by the leadership group but that would have been as a result of instruction from Pyke after consultation/meetings with the leaders. I don't think Pyke suddenly said "Hey, play tougher" and Tex et al went "Oh, ok". That's too facile --- it doesn't happen overnight. It started as far back as the Round 15 Carlton game and peaked against Geelong in Round 18. I believe Collingwood played out of their skins against us for Buckley, helped by some old, familiar Crows' complacency ("we should win this") --- until half-time! We returned to playing super-footy against PA, Essendon and Sydney. I wouldn't read anything into the WC loss. WC were playing, desperately, to get into the 8, while we had Top stitched up and rested key players.

this effort from the players was the best I'd seen in years, in terms of aggression and intensity.

Yes, agreed, loved it too, and more than that. After the Hawks loss the Crows have played terrific footy, with the occasional lapse in concentration and intensity (eg vs Pies, mentioned above), but no team can play at 100% for 10 games. The main thing is that they have learned from what happened in Rounds 7-14. Sydney and Adelaide are playing the best footy and loom as GF opponents, as long as they continue to play their best, even taking into account the latest bye and the craziness of the season in general. Geelong the danger. We know for sure that the Crows can put together 3 great games in a row and no better time to do it than from tomorrow night.
But wait, there's more!
They are a young group, still developing, and will get even better than they were this year! Even if Lever goes.

A big part of the reason we won those two Flags was because Blight made some major changes to player positioning and tactics, part way through the game. He didn't start ranting and raving, chucking chairs against walls, no. He seriously shuffled the deck and made changes.

The main changes were forced on Blight via injury, but his genius showed through in the selections he made as replacements. Other changes like dropping Modra in 98 were very tough, but he'd run out of credits (which is why I think CC should be dropped, btw). Moving Darren Jarman to FF in 97 GF was inspired.
At other times I'm pretty sure that Blighty ranted and raved and chucked wobblies. He was a mercurial player and a brilliantly unpredictable coach.

One thing I especially want to see is Pyke being willing to play defensively and slow up the game, if needed, to take the wind out of the opposition's sails.

Yes, and we have seen that a few times since the second Hawthorn game. Pyke is developing what Hawthorn had at their peak, ie on-field leaders who act as immediate, game-time player-coaches, able to change the character of the game themselves.

The Crows will be a force in the Comp. 2018-2020, even more than this year. I'll be surprised if we don't get 2 Flags out of 2017-2020.

 

[John Who]

Some good comments above, and glad this thread was created.

I was shooting the sh*t with some people recently - just some general issues about Pyke and the Crows. One thing I heard was sort of related to something that I've been thinking about. And it's regarding Don Pyke possibly having shown all his cards, in regards to player moves, tactics, etc. In some of the games we've lost, some of them have definitely been because of lack of effort and intensity from the players, no doubt about it. And two that spring to mind were our losses to Melbourne and North Melbourne. But having said that, there have been other losses where I contribute a fair portion of blame to the coaching group. In particular, some of our past losses to Geelong. For longer than I can remember, Chris Scott has regularly dropped numbers back in Defence, and not just one extra man. But despite this, we regularly dispatched long bombs into our Forward Line, right into the arms of Geelong's extra Defenders. And this is just one example of not being willing to make bold changes. It was only in our more recent game against Geelong where Pyke clearly changed his instructions to the players, in regards to the where/how of moving the ball forward. There were many, many short/medium passes - not just into the Forward Line, but all over the paddock. Players were nailing 20-30m passes for the whole game, rather than the big up-and-unders. Make no mistake, this effort from the players was the best I'd seen in years, in terms of aggression and intensity. But there was a major shake up in tactics from Pyke - probably more than ever before.

When Finals roll around, it's a whole different ballgame, and as Blighty showed in 1997 - 1998....to win Finals, sure you gotta take the pace and intensity to a whole other level. But it's so much more than that. A big part of the reason we won those two Flags was because Blight made some major changes to player positioning and tactics, part way through the game. He didn't start ranting and raving, chucking chairs against walls, no. He seriously shuffled the deck and made changes. So for us to win these Finals, if we're on the front foot and setting the tone, then we obviously just keep pushing ahead with it. But if we're on the back foot, we can't keep backing in specific players that may be getting beaten in their positions. Pyke has to seriously have "Plan B" and "Plan C" up his sleeve, beyond just telling the players to work harder. I don't care what it is....

Move The Sloane Ranger to Full Forward, or have him as a rebounding Half Back.
Or move Luke Brown out of Defence and into the Middle.
Or put Tex as a loose man in Defence.
....or whatever changes need to be made, as bizarre as they may be.

I remember years ago in one of Hawthorn's Grand Finals they won - they put Stewie Dew at Full Forward. And what an effect that made. It's that out-of-left-field approach you need to win Finals Footy....not same ol', same ol. Finals Footy is a whole different ballgame, where you need to be willing to try anything. Obviously you have a reasonable idea of how the players line up at the opening bounce, but if the opposition gets in front and just keeps extending the lead, then Pyke has to make a change. One thing I especially want to see is Pyke being willing to play defensively and slow up the game, if needed, to take the wind out of the opposition's sails.

Like my mate said previously - we can only hope that Pykey hasn't shown all his cards just yet....and is willing to shuffle the deck chairs boldly. Like it says below:

"If we keep doing what we're doing...."

If there was ever a time for the playing group to watch those two clips, now would be that time. Time to Redefine Impossible....starting now.

The biggest improvement that I've seen is the ability to adapt by players as well as coaching strategies. Whether initiated by the team leaders or coaches, we are clearly showing a more determined mongrel and skills complimenting this mongrel. Our attacking flair in the first 6 rounds has been fine-tuned to be more defensive when things aren't working as planned.
Pyke's doing a good as a job as any of the other coaches. How he will be judged will only count starting this QF game. Will be interesting to see if he makes any drastic changes when things aren't working. We shall soon find out in the next few weeks!

 

[AmericanCrow]

A

My greatest fear is that Geelong or Sydney smash us due to superior experience.

We have far more Finals experience than those clowns last couple years.

 

[Rear Admiral]

The main changes were forced on Blight via injury, but his genius showed through in the selections he made as replacements. Other changes like dropping Modra in 98 were very tough, but he'd run out of credits (which is why I think CC should be dropped, btw). Moving Darren Jarman to FF in 97 GF was inspired.
At other times I'm pretty sure that Blighty ranted and raved and chucked wobblies.

He was a mercurial player and a brilliantly unpredictable coach.

Thanks for the reply. Great comments....duly noted.

But it's these points above that most closely relate to what I was talking about. With Blight, I was talking about making major and comprehensive changes during games, not just between/before games. And this extends beyond just telling the players to "work harder". I read an article in The Advertiser....I think it was by Chris McDermott. Now I have long since learnt not to take newspapers as Gospel, but one particular comment by McDermott about Blight was:

"He was the master of bluff, tactics, trickery, misdirection, etc."

That's not word-for-word, but you get the idea. Now the loss/dropping of key players was an issue, but that's not what I was referring to. I meant Blight's willingness to roll the dice and come up with the unexpected....either going into a game (e.g. Shane Ellen to Full Forward)....but most importantly, during games. And this is something I haven't yet seen from Pyke. It's great to have on-field leaders in Tex, The Sloane Ranger (and possibly one or two others), and that cannot be ignored. But the sort of major positional and tactical changes I'm referring to need to come from The Don. And I have yet to see it (or not in a significant way). The biggest change I saw The Don make was in our most recent win over Geelong (which was f*ckin' awesome). But again, this was between/before games, not during.

The Don seems to have a somewhat fixed set of tactics/structures in place, and for the most part they are very good.
With Blight, his approach (at least in Finals) was more along the lines of "do whatever we have to to win", and chuck the playbook out the window if need be.

When considering all this, what I've quoted in my e-Signature....that describes it "to a tee". What this particular bloke achieved is beyond belief.

 

[CrowBloke]

But it's these points above that most closely relate to what I was talking about.

Blighty was singular. One-of-a-kind, as a player and later as a coach. Pyke is Pyke and Blight is Blight and never the twain shall meet.

I understand what you've been saying about both coaches and enjoyed the discussion. Strange fact: Pyke has a better win-loss % than Blight and every other current AFL coach. I believe that this will translate into Finals and Premiership success.
In many of my recent posts I've been saying "I believe they will win tonight". Maybe I should be saying "I believe that they can win tonight", but every supporter of every team believes their team can win. From another thread, I said:
"" ... also take into account that we had Top2 sewn up with 2 rounds to play. That gave Pyke and Co. the rare luxury of an extra two weeks to plan a Finals campaign knowing that the first 2 games would be Home Finals. Resting Tex, Talia and Greenwood was part of that plan. Smart!

--- finally, please consider that everything Pyke has been doing all year, but crucially in the last 3 weeks, has been to get us into a position where we can challenge, seriously, for the Premiership. We did not finish Top2 after Round 21 by accident.
Our best will beat anybody and that is not true of others in the Top8 eg PA's "best" won't be good enough to knock us off this year, or Sydney. That goes for Richmond, Essendon, WC and ... GWS.
The dangers are Sydney (remember, they finished Minor Round Top last year and will be angry and hungry to rectify not getting the Flag) and Geelong. Even so, in a GF at the MCG, our best will prevail."".

I'll be surprised if we lose tonight, but even if we do we still have the opportunity to go top. Either way, we need 3 wins.