Cam Rayner

[dean33]

I don’t think they have said either way.

I think teams have until 10am on Monday to lodge appeals.

They’ll appeal for sure and he’ll get off. As if any club will accept the mrp and tribunal decision now after the Cripps fiasco.

 

[Elixuh]

Rayner played a semi decent game. But he was invisible in the first half. And he squibbed a contest by choosing to soccer it off the ground.

We missed you Danster, never do that to us again.

 

[Elixuh]

They’ll appeal for sure and he’ll get off. As if any club will accept the mrp and tribunal decision now after the Cripps fiasco.

The issue is, the Cripps thing was so transparent that the MRP will probably want to show its legit and not overturn anything this week.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

They’ll appeal for sure and he’ll get off. As if any club will accept the mrp and tribunal decision now after the Cripps fiasco.

Watching the replay a few times now in slow motion, inclined to agree now that it was an unfortunate accident and Rayner should get off..

 

[Nunez]

Watching the replay a few times now in slow motion, inclined to agree now that it was an unfortunate accident and Rayner should get off..

I don't think the tackle itself was dangerous, just very unlucky. His technique was very good and he was tackling a much larger opponent. Still, the momentum made the landing worse than it would be 9/10 times that same tackle is done.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Watching the replay a few times now in slow motion, inclined to agree now that it was an unfortunate accident and Rayner should get off..

The hard Gabba cricket pitch didn’t help the outcome either. Did quite a number on Brown’s face.

In light of that I think the AFL will make sure Rayner gets whacked. They would rather put the accountability completely on players than reignite a debate over whether their playing venues are completely safe.

Simon Black would have played 400 games and Voss 300 if it wasn’t for that Gabba centre square.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

They will appeal surely.

I can see why you need to suspend players for that but as said above he would be extremely unlucky to miss a final for that, everything just somehow went wrong in the tackle but Rayner didn’t look to have done too much wrong.

Even as a Richmond supporter I hope he is allowed to play.

 

[danster168]

Meteoric Rise Hey mate, another 50 goals from Fritsch. Are you still unwilling to concede that he's a gun? He's literally torn Brisbane apart twice now.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Meteoric Rise Hey mate, another 50 goals from Fritsch. Are you still unwilling to concede that he's a gun? He's literally torn Brisbane apart twice now.

My view of Bayley Avfritsch doesn’t change because he gets some joe he goose goal to take him from 49 to 50 for the season danster. As 50 goal regular seasons go(the first time Avfritsch has achieved this) this is as bad as it gets.

He averages:

9.5 disposals. Low
1.4 tackles. Low
4.2 contested possessions. Low
0.4 contested marks. Low
0.9 tackles inside 50 Low.
12.7 Ah there is a marking constest, I will just go and stand over here so I don’t get hurt and hope the ball falls in my hands. AFL number 1.



Below is a comparison between Bayley Avfritsch and first year player, 21yo Noah Cumberland, who plays a similar role, only he actually contests the footy and tries to tackle. And take particular note here Dan of their respective time on ground %’s. Cumberland’s is low due to the fact his first game he was an unused sub for the whole match. Meaning his averages are in reality all about 15% higher than shown here. Once you eliminate the game Cumberland did not actually play from his data, he sits AFL #6 for goals per match and AFL #4 for goals + goal assists per match. Way, way ahead of your goal hog pick 4 superstar….all whilst actually winning some of his own footy and tackling rather than just hanging out of the contest with his arm in the air.

This first year player beats your superstar for disposals, tackles, tackles inside 50, goals, behinds, goal assists, free kicks given away, contested possessions, effective disposals, clangers, contested marks, inside 50’s, score involvements, clearances, metres gained, turrnovers, intercepts….you know, just about everything bar the "I’ll go and stand out here with my hand in the air hoping for someone to beat my opponent and theirs so they are compelled to give it to me" stat.

 

[Checkered]

Played solid enough on Friday and definitely deserved a week for the tackle

 

[danster168]

My view of Bayley Avfritsch doesn’t change because he gets some joe he goose goal to take him from 49 to 50 for the season danster. As 50 goal regular seasons go(the first time Avfritsch has achieved this) this is as bad as it gets.

He averages:

9.5 disposals. Low
1.4 tackles. Low
4.2 contested possessions. Low
0.4 contested marks. Low
0.9 tackles inside 50 Low.
12.7 Ah there is a marking constest, I will just go and stand over here so I don’t get hurt and hope the ball falls in my hands. AFL number 1.



Below is a comparison between Bayley Avfritsch and first year player, 21yo Noah Cumberland, who plays a similar role, only he actually contests the footy and tries to tackle. And take particular note here Dan of their respective time on ground %’s. Cumberland’s is low due to the fact his first game he was an unused sub for the whole match. Meaning his averages are in reality all about 15% higher than shown here. Once you eliminate the game Cumberland did not actually play from his data, he sits AFL #6 for goals per match and AFL #4 for goals + goal assists per match. Way, way ahead of your goal hog pick 4 superstar….all whilst actually winning some of his own footy and tackling rather than just hanging out of the contest with his arm in the air.

This first year player beats your superstar for disposals, tackles, tackles inside 50, goals, behinds, goal assists, free kicks given away, contested possessions, effective disposals, clangers, contested marks, inside 50’s, score involvements, clearances, metres gained, turrnovers, intercepts….you know, just about everything bar the "I’ll go and stand out here with my hand in the air hoping for someone to beat my opponent and theirs so they are compelled to give it to me" stat.



View attachment 1486796

kicking 50 goals in a season is elite mate. Tell me which other guys in the top 10 afl goal kicking list that you don't rate? they're all guns. In fact, the top 20 are all guns.

And not sure what you mean by Joe the Goose. Fritsch flies for marks and takes good contested marks and on the ground level he is mobile. On Friday night, Brisbane defenders had no answers for him.

Rayner had 5 possessions to half time and the game was done. also fritsch didn't squib a contest like Rayner did. Did you see that soccer off the ground because he didn't want to get crunched?

Rayner is better than last year but he still hasn't proven to be a top 20 player of his draft. Especially when you have guys like fritsch almost winning norm smith's and kicking 50 a year, and guys like Sam Taylor becoming AA defenders.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

kicking 50 goals in a season is elite mate. Tell me which other guys in the top 10 afl goal kicking list that you don't rate? they're all guns. In fact, the top 20 are all guns.

And not sure what you mean by Joe the Goose. Fritsch flies for marks and takes good contested marks and on the ground level he is mobile. On Friday night, Brisbane defenders had no answers for him.

Rayner had 5 possessions to half time and the game was done. also fritsch didn't squib a contest like Rayner did. Did you see that soccer off the ground because he didn't want to get crunched?

Rayner is better than last year but he still hasn't proven to be a top 20 player of his draft. Especially when you have guys like fritsch almost winning norm smith's and kicking 50 a year, and guys like Sam Taylor becoming AA defenders.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

kicking 50 goals in a season is elite mate. Tell me which other guys in the top 10 afl goal kicking list that you don't rate? they're all guns. In fact, the top 20 are all guns.

And not sure what you mean by Joe the Goose. Fritsch flies for marks and takes good contested marks and on the ground level he is mobile. On Friday night, Brisbane defenders had no answers for him.

Rayner had 5 possessions to half time and the game was done. also fritsch didn't squib a contest like Rayner did. Did you see that soccer off the ground because he didn't want to get crunched?

Rayner is better than last year but he still hasn't proven to be a top 20 player of his draft. Especially when you have guys like fritsch almost winning norm smith's and kicking 50 a year, and guys like Sam Taylor becoming AA defenders.

Phew, I almost thought you had seen the light there for a bit Dan, but you were just recovering your lack of equilibrium.

Kicking 50 goals in 22 matches does not make you an elite player my one-eyed friend. It may mean you rank elite for goals kicked. But there are about 30 other categories. Probably the only other one Avfritsch would rank elite in would be chest marks when standing 25 metres from the nearest player. He is bloody good at those.

Fritsch flies for marks you say….he does when he has a cold sit and it is completely on his terms, otherwise he yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaahhhhhhnah’s every marking contest. But forget Fritsch, you have draw attention to him on this thread and we have watched him and Spargo and we can see what they are now Dan, and they are very definitely not worth pick 4 and pick 19. As I showed you with Fritsch, 2022 debutante, 21yo Noah Cumberland has dead set donkey-licked Fritsch in just about every category, playing a similar role but not backing out of contests every time a bit of bravery is required. So don’t try to sell us Fritsch as some sort of elite forward, we are not buying it.

But for you to suggest Rayner is a squib and Fritsch isn’t because you thought you saw one contest involving Rayner just proves you are capable of ignoring mountains of evidence that contradicts your position and latching onto one incident you think supports your hypothesis and claiming to the world this proves you correct. Fortunately Dan, we have all watched Cam Rayner play, and he is very strong in a contest, the complete opposite of Fritsch.

But it is very big of you to admit Rayner has been better than last year, when he missed the entire season with an ACL injury. . The world has moved past you on Rayner Dan. He is now routinely described as a star, a difference maker or whatever trope is in vogue to describe players who can enter contest against multiple opponents and leave accelerating away with the ball in hand. To suggest he wouldn’t be worth a top 20 pick now just means you are, fortunately for the future of this thread, still in complete denial of how good Rayner actually is.

How does Rayner actually look amongst all the pick 1’s this century?

Riewoldt, Hodge, Goddard, Cooney, Deledio, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Watts, Scully, Swallow, Patton, Whitfield, Boyd, McCartin Weitering, McGrath, Rayner Walsh, Rowell, Ugle-Hagan, Horne-Francis.

1. Riewoldt and Hodge had stellar careers. Walsh looks a chance to be on this sort of level, if not then the level below.

2. Goddard, Cooney, Deledio, Murphy, Gibbs, Whitfield, Weitering I would say had long careers at a high level, or in Weitering and Whitfield’s cases they are tracking to do so.

3. Rowell, Ugle-Hagan and Horne-Francis we can say it is too early to start reliably judging them, no reason to think they won’t be good.

4. Kreuzer, Scully, Swallow, McGrath have had decent careers to a point, not brilliant.

5. Boyd, McCartin and Patton have largely had their careers wrecked by injury and illness.

6. And Jack Watts was Bayley Fritsch before Bayley Fritsch was Bayley Fritsch, basically about as physical as the tooth fairy.

As much as you are trying to pass Cam Rayner off as another Jack Watts Dan, he looks more like surpassing group 4 above, and still has a bit of group 3 and group 5 so far, and he will be looking to move into that group 2 category in coming years. Which, as we can see, would be a decent outcome for a pick 1, as it happens.

 

[danster168]

Phew, I almost thought you had seen the light there for a bit Dan, but you were just recovering your lack of equilibrium.

Kicking 50 goals in 22 matches does not make you an elite player my one-eyed friend. It may mean you rank elite for goals kicked. But there are about 30 other categories. Probably the only other one Avfritsch would rank elite in would be chest marks when standing 25 metres from the nearest player. He is bloody good at those.

Fritsch flies for marks you say….he does when he has a cold sit and it is completely on his terms, otherwise he yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaahhhhhhnah’s every marking contest. But forget Fritsch, you have draw attention to him on this thread and we have watched him and Spargo and we can see what they are now Dan, and they are very definitely not worth pick 4 and pick 19. As I showed you with Fritsch, 2022 debutante, 21yo Noah Cumberland has dead set donkey-licked Fritsch in just about every category, playing a similar role but not backing out of contests every time a bit of bravery is required. So don’t try to sell us Fritsch as some sort of elite forward, we are not buying it.

But for you to suggest Rayner is a squib and Fritsch isn’t because you thought you saw one contest involving Rayner just proves you are capable of ignoring mountains of evidence that contradicts your position and latching onto one incident you think supports your hypothesis and claiming to the world this proves you correct. Fortunately Dan, we have all watched Cam Rayner play, and he is very strong in a contest, the complete opposite of Fritsch.

But it is very big of you to admit Rayner has been better than last year, when he missed the entire season with an ACL injury. . The world has moved past you on Rayner Dan. He is now routinely described as a star, a difference maker or whatever trope is in vogue to describe players who can enter contest against multiple opponents and leave accelerating away with the ball in hand. To suggest he wouldn’t be worth a top 20 pick now just means you are, fortunately for the future of this thread, still in complete denial of how good Rayner actually is.

How does Rayner actually look amongst all the pick 1’s this century?

Riewoldt, Hodge, Goddard, Cooney, Deledio, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Watts, Scully, Swallow, Patton, Whitfield, Boyd, McCartin Weitering, McGrath, Rayner Walsh, Rowell, Ugle-Hagan, Horne-Francis.

1. Riewoldt and Hodge had stellar careers. Walsh looks a chance to be on this sort of level, if not then the level below.

2. Goddard, Cooney, Deledio, Murphy, Gibbs, Whitfield, Weitering I would say had long careers at a high level, or in Weitering and Whitfield’s cases they are tracking to do so.

3. Rowell, Ugle-Hagan and Horne-Francis we can say it is too early to start reliably judging them, no reason to think they won’t be good.

4. Kreuzer, Scully, Swallow, McGrath have had decent careers to a point, not brilliant.

5. Boyd, McCartin and Patton have largely had their careers wrecked by injury and illness.

6. And Jack Watts was Bayley Fritsch before Bayley Fritsch was Bayley Fritsch, basically about as physical as the tooth fairy.

As much as you are trying to pass Cam Rayner off as another Jack Watts Dan, he looks more like surpassing group 4 above, and still has a bit of group 3 and group 5 so far, and he will be looking to move into that group 2 category in coming years. Which, as we can see, would be a decent outcome for a pick 1, as it happens.

Give me a list of all the afl players that have kicked 50 goals in back to back seasons that aren't elite. If you can't do that then it shows your agenda.

With regards to your list of number 1's, 'looking to move into' that category means nothing. 'Looks more like' also means nothing. At this stage Rayner is in Category 5 but he has shown category 4 form. but he hasn't been consistent.

Also not sure why you are attacking Fritsch's courage. He goes harder than Rayner in the air. He flies for marks with courage and always go back with the flight. You're mentioning Fritsch's lack of courage which shows you don't watch him much. Did you even see when rayner squibbed that contest?

For Rayner to be in the top 10-15 of his draft then he'd need to produce at a very high level for the rest of his career. You can't compare Fritsch, one of the best forwards in the comp who has produced on the big stage and is THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE AFL TO KICK A GOAL IN EVERY GAME with a guy that is consistently inconsistent and yet to make it as a forward or a midfielder.

 

[danster168]

Fritsch in the 2022 All-Australian squad! Game set and match. Goodbye

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Give me a list of all the afl players that have kicked 50 goals in back to back seasons that aren't elite. If you can't do that then it shows your agenda.

With regards to your list of number 1's, 'looking to move into' that category means nothing. 'Looks more like' also means nothing. At this stage Rayner is in Category 5 but he has shown category 4 form. but he hasn't been consistent.

Also not sure why you are attacking Fritsch's courage. He goes harder than Rayner in the air. He flies for marks with courage and always go back with the flight. You're mentioning Fritsch's lack of courage which shows you don't watch him much. Did you even see when rayner squibbed that contest?

For Rayner to be in the top 10-15 of his draft then he'd need to produce at a very high level for the rest of his career. You can't compare Fritsch, one of the best forwards in the comp who has produced on the big stage and is THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE AFL TO KICK A GOAL IN EVERY GAME with a guy that is consistently inconsistent and yet to make it as a forward or a midfielder.

I am not claiming this to be an exhaustive list, but this is all the ones I can think of….

1. Bayley Avfritsch

2. Daylight


3. Michael “Gladys” Moncrieff
4. John Peck
5. Josh Jenkins didn’t officially do it but got as close to b2b 50’s in a regular season as Fritsch
6. Kurt Tippett, "as above”
7. Daniel Bradshaw
8. Lance Whitnall
9. Tony Rocca
10. Alan Noonan
11. Mick Conlan
12. Bob Beecroft
13. Bill Brownless
14. Lloyd Hagger
15. Larry Donohue
16. Terry Bright - another who went as close as Fritsch did to b2b 50+ in regular season
17. David Clarke - as above
18. Cameron Mooney
19. Mark Jackson
20. Darren Bennett
21. Drew Petrie - another who went as close as Fritsch in regular seasons
22. Ben Brown
23. Nathan Thompson
24. Ray Poulter
25. Tony Morwood - came as close as Fritsch
26. John Roberts
27. Quinten “Q Stick” Lynch
28. Paul Hudson


Those are a few off the top of my head. I may be a bit harsh on some of them, Peck actually represented Victoria so scratch him, probably a few others like Conlan, Clarke, Morwood played for Vic as well during a period this was just about auto-elite status. But there are plenty to choose from. Josh Jenkins matching Fritsch tells you all you need to know.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Fritsch in the 2022 All-Australian squad! Game set and match. Goodbye

Mate, Blues had 5 named and didn’t even make finals.

But the selectors obviously wanted an uncontested chest mark specialist in the squad, and Fritsch is unrivalled at that.

 

[danster168]

Mate, Blues had 5 named and didn’t even make finals.

But the selectors obviously wanted an uncontested chest mark specialist in the squad, and Fritsch is unrivalled at that.

Victory is very sweet. I'll back the opinion of Jude Bolton, Nathan Buckley, Kane Cornes, Andrew Dillon, Glen Jakovich, Gerard Healy, Chris Johnson, Cameron Ling, Nick Riewoldt and Brad Scott. They all rate him as elite alongside me. Get back to me when Rayner makes the squad.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Victory is very sweet. I'll back the opinion of Jude Bolton, Nathan Buckley, Kane Cornes, Andrew Dillon, Glen Jakovich, Gerard Healy, Chris Johnson, Cameron Ling, Nick Riewoldt and Brad Scott. They all rate him as elite alongside me. Get back to me when Rayner makes the squad.

But hang on Dan, before you were all about coaches votes. How many of those does Fritsch have? And Rayner?

Now you are backing the judgement of the people that actually made Darcy Byrne-Jones an All Australian. Why have your goal posts moved suddenly from Coaches Votes?

 

[iBeng]

Didnt make the best 22 under 22 delist him NOW!

 

[00Stinger]

Didnt make the best 22 under 22 delist him NOW!

He has never been in the 22 under 22 team at any stage of his career

But I'm sure you guys will spin this as a positive for him

 

[iBeng]

He has never been in the 22 under 22 team at any stage of his career

But I'm sure you guys will spin this as a positive for him

Of course, you see less expectations on him early means when he's 25-31 he's going to be Gary Ablett levels of good.

Right?

 

[Elixuh]

He has never been in the 22 under 22 team at any stage of his career

But I'm sure you guys will spin this as a positive for him

What a stingerrr

 

[Meteoric Rise]

He has never been in the 22 under 22 team at any stage of his career

But I'm sure you guys will spin this as a positive for him

You make the case for Ginnivan being in the 22 under 22 team ahead of Rayner based on their respective seasons….

They are equal for goals + goal assists, Rayner smashes Ginnivan in tackles, disposals, score involvements, contested possessions, contested marks. The only place where Ginnivan has had a better season is in the minds of the people who vote for it…ie, Collingwood supporters. I mean it is not even close. So I wouldn’t be submitting selection or omission from the 22 under 22 team as evidence of anything. One year, I think 2020, Gryan Miers got picked and Shai Bolton didn’t, and Bolton was drafted a year earlier.

The only statistical area Ginnivan had a clear win in over Rayner is free kicks for, and we all know how that came about. This comparison makes a further mockery of an award that has no credibility whatsoever.

 

[Nunez]

Big game for Cam this week. Has trained really well the last fortnight and think he'll be absolutely primed fitness wise. It's his game for the taking.