Cameron Green

[Agent93]

The biggest bonus with Green is that he swings the ball which is a massive bonus for us adding essential variety on flat wickets given our focus on extreme pace with our 3 pace bowlers.

I know WA used him as a bowler a few seasons back, and I reckon if he worked at that solely he'd still be in line for national selection. The batting is a bonus.

 

[Blue1980]

I'm as on board with the post-retirement reappraisals of Watto as anyone, but 2005-era Jones and Flintoff would have had him for breakfast.

Bowling wise he’d have def helped, batting wise he’d have hardly been any worse than Martyn that series.

 

[therubbernub]

It is very much Steve Waugh type of template to back in.
Steve Waugh had long learning phase in Test matches where did not do a lot but we stuck with him and was actually his bowling that was handy early on whilst he learnt how to adjust to Test matches. Was much better at one day matches for first few years with his batting but that 89 tour of England he really started to shine with the bat and by end of career he really was just a batsman, a bloody good one that sometimes bowled but not expected to take wickets. Green going to be a great bat but he going to have lots of downs whilst still learning and need to accept that and at number 6 if he can do that role and bowl a few overs here and there. Bonus wickets will mean we can afford to ride out any batting low points for some time, especially when side winning.

My expectations on career is he simply becomes a gun bat towards end of decade. I do not want him to be expected to have any big bowling load as his batting is just too good to have him split his training between the two. The weird problem is if you bowl balls like he did to dismiss Root, every man and his dog will want you to bowl 15 to 20 overs an innings which I not really want to see such an expectation on someone that should just be seen as a bonus IF he takes wickets.

IIRC waugh was always touted as a batsman that could bowl.

I dont see any reason why he cant be a genuine allrounder- they do exist. Sobers, Kallis, Botham , Miller. His bowling has really surprised me especially his pace and the bounce he gets is very handy.

If we have to wait till the end of the decade- thats 9 years away. i think we will all be a little disappointed. I just cant see it. this kid has "it" and a few recent failures doesnt stiffle my enthusiasm for a generational all rounder talent

 

[therubbernub]

The expectations for an all rounder are different than they are for a pure batsmen. His numbers are certainly not where I expect they will be in a few years, but it's not quite as simple as him playing as a batsman. His selection in the team is based on more than being a better batting option than the next batsman in line. If he can average 35 with the bat and be a genuine 5th bowling option with the ball over his career, that is absolutely fine for an all rounder batting at six. I expect he'll do much better than that, but the judgment of an all rounder has a few layers to it.

I suspect with the age demographics of our attack, we are going to need a 5th genuine quick like green to aid in the transition. I am not that impressed with richardson, who looks a bit one dimensional to me.

 

[footyfan1978]

IIRC waugh was always touted as a batsman that could bowl.

I dont see any reason why he cant be a genuine allrounder- they do exist. Sobers, Kallis, Botham , Miller. His bowling has really surprised me especially his pace and the bounce he gets is very handy.

If we have to wait till the end of the decade- thats 9 years away. i think we will all be a little disappointed. I just cant see it. this kid has "it" and a few recent failures doesnt stiffle my enthusiasm for a generational all rounder talent

He can be, but imo, if he is overly encouraged to spend lots of time in nets on his bowling it also means spending less time with focus on his batting talent, which for me, the highest ceiling for him is certainly with his batting. My point with Steve Waugh is, like Green, he was in the Test team very young and the selectors where willing to ride the ups and downs of someone so young to do the learning curve in the Test side, rather than in and it which is how it normally done for normal players. Green is not a normal talent. He is exceptional so they thrown him in early and hopefully they are willing to ride the ups and downs like they did with Steve Waugh. By the time Steve Waugh started to bat consistently and score hundreds it was a really beautiful pay off. The 1989 series in England was just sublime to watch how he went after 4 years in Test side to finally become good enough to hold spot in team as a specialist bat. I want Green to get his average around 45 to 50 in Test cricket as there just too much talent there to not reach those type of heights. I fear if he listens to all the voices than want him to bowl over 20 overs an innings and become a Glen McGrath type we will lose a lot of the potential with how good his batting can become.

Steve Smith is a good person to listen to how he knew he could bowl a bit but it was his batting he put the focus in the net sessions and he just wanted to become a great bat. He felt if he split his time between his leg spin and batting he would never become the Test run scoring machine he has turned into.

 

[Marcel Proust]

He can be, but imo, if he is overly encouraged to spend lots of time in nets on his bowling it also means spending less time with focus on his batting talent, which for me, the highest ceiling for him is certainly with his batting. My point with Steve Waugh is like Green he was in the Test team very young and the selectors where willing to ride the ups and downs of someone so young to do the learning curve in the side, rather than in and it which is how it normally done for normal players. Green is not a normal talent. He is exceptional so they thrown him in early and hopefully the are willing to ride the ups and downs like they did with Steve Waugh. By the time Steve Waugh started to bat consistently and score hundreds it was a really beautiful play off. The 1989 series in England was just sublime to watch how he went after 4 years in Test side to finally become good enough to hold spot in team as a specialist bat. I want Green to get his average around 45 to 50 in Test cricket as there just too much talent there to not reach those type of heights.

Steve Smith is a good person to listen to how he knew he could bowl a bit but it was his batting he put the focus in the net sessions and he just wanted to become a great bat. He felt if he split his time between his leg spin and batting he would never become the Test run scoring machine he has turned into.

He is 22 years old.

Would be nuts to not develop his bowling and batting.

Flintoff. Kallis types are invaluable

 

[Pippen94]

He can be, but imo, if he is overly encouraged to spend lots of time in nets on his bowling it also means spending less time with focus on his batting talent, which for me, the highest ceiling for him is certainly with his batting. My point with Steve Waugh is, like Green, he was in the Test team very young and the selectors where willing to ride the ups and downs of someone so young to do the learning curve in the Test side, rather than in and it which is how it normally done for normal players. Green is not a normal talent. He is exceptional so they thrown him in early and hopefully the are willing to ride the ups and downs like they did with Steve Waugh. By the time Steve Waugh started to bat consistently and score hundreds it was a really beautiful pay off. The 1989 series in England was just sublime to watch how he went after 4 years in Test side to finally become good enough to hold spot in team as a specialist bat. I want Green to get his average around 45 to 50 in Test cricket as there just too much talent there to not reach those type of heights. I fear if he listens to all the voices than want him to bowl over 20 overs an innings and become a Glen McGrath type we will lose a lot of the potential with how good his batting can become.

Steve Smith is a good person to listen to how he knew he could bowl a bit but it was his batting he put the focus in the net sessions and he just wanted to become a great bat. He felt if he split his time between his leg spin and batting he would never become the Test run scoring machine he has turned into.

Don't need to pick - just be an all rounder

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I am really impressed with bowling, not least his leg cutters.

He is too talented a batsman not to get get it together at some stage this series.

Meanwhile it is great he is from WA and helps still those crazy parochial folk who want M Marsh to return. (Marsh is the worst Australian cricketer I have seen to have been gifted so many Tests)

 

[footyfan1978]

He is 22 years old.

Would be nuts to not develop his bowling and batting.

Flintoff. Kallis types are invaluable

90% focus on batting and then the bowling just the 10% focus is what I want his training schedule to be.

 

[footyfan1978]

I am really impressed with bowling, not least his leg cutters.

He is too talented a batsman not to get get it together at some stage this series.

Meanwhile it is great he is from WA and helps still those crazy parochial folk who want M Marsh to return. (Marsh is the worst Australian cricketer I have seen to have been gifted so many Tests)

Scott Muller says hi

 

[Marcel Proust]

90% focus on batting and then the bowling just the 10% focus is what I want his training schedule to be.

He just got out a set root and the huge wicket of stokes and has been generally bowling alright before that.

Why would you not want him to continue bowling.

A huge 145k bowler that can swing it batting @6 is very important ...

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Scott Muller says hi

lol... Scotty did not play 32 gormless Tests.

 

[footyfan1978]

Why would you not want him to continue bowling.

WTF. I never said I did not want him to continue bowling. Comprehension .....so far off...

 

[footyfan1978]

lol... Scotty did not play 32 gormless Tests.

How many Tests has Mitch Marsh played. Certainly not 32, surely?

 

[Marcel Proust]

WTF. I never said I did not want him to continue bowling. Comprehension .....so far off...

To focus 9/10s on batting when he is a 22 year old talented fast bowler seems odd to me.

Looks a pure all-rounder imho.

Ideally the top5 should be good enough green doesn't have to focus 90% on batting

 

[footyfan1978]

To focus 9/10s on batting when he is a 22 year old talented fast bowler seems odd to me.

I get that, but his batting has so much potential for greatness that to get that greatness to reality will need to focus like Steve Smith and Loose Bus Change put on their batting. I'd rather he average over 50 with bat than 30 which is the fear is he splits his time in training 50-50. In fact, I reckon that is what would happen. He would average 30 with bat and never become close to how good he could become with bat.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

How many Tests has Mitch Marsh played. Certainly not 32, surely?

Tragic but true.

 

[Marcel Proust]

I get that, but his batting has so much potential for greatness that to get that greatness to reality will need to focus like Steve Smith and Loose Bus Change put on their batting. I'd rather he average over 50 with bat than 30 which is the fear is he splits his time in training 50-50. In fact, I reckon that is what would happen. He would average 30 with bat and never become close to how good he could become with bat.

But his bowling seems to have very good upside also.

Stokes 36 average test cricket.
Flintoff. 31.
Pollock. 32.
Khan 37.
Botham. 33

Allrounder at test level is a tough gig

 

[footyfan1978]

But his bowling seems to have very good upside also.

Stokes 36 average test cricket.
Flintoff. 31.
Pollock. 32.
Khan 37.
Botham. 33

Allrounder at test level is a tough gig

Exactly, I do not want Green to only average those amounts when he capable of so much more with the bat.
If he averages in the 30's with ball but over 50 with bat, bring that on FFS, pleazzzzz!!!

 

[Pippen94]

Exactly, I do not want Green to only average those amounts when he capable of so much more with the bat.
If he averages in the 30's with ball but over 50 with bat, bring that on FFS, pleazzzzz!!!

Greatest bowling all rounders Imran & Miller averaged late 30's with bat & early 20's with ball. Batting all rounders Sobers & Kallis had record of 50's with bat & early 30's with ball.
It's unlikely green can do this just based on so few players have reached this level...but who knows?!

Green's bowling looks to have been taken to another level clocking 145 km per hour in this test. Either way he provides great value

 

[footyfan1978]

Greatest bowling all rounders Imran & Miller averaged late 30's with bat & early 20's with ball. Batting all rounders Sobers & Kallis had record of 50's with bat & early 30's with ball.
It's unlikely green can do this just based on so few players have reached this level...but who knows?!

Green's bowling looks to have been taken to another level clocking 145 km per hour in this test. Either way he provides great value

Most allrounders end up like Imran or Miller where they really just bowling allrounders that bat a bit. Actually for Imran I saw him as gun bowler rather than allrounder. I not want to see Green become a bowler that bats a bit. I not want that to happen to Green. His batting has way more potential. I honestly think he capable of being second only to Sobers if he puts a lot more time into his batting development. Steve Smith was so close to just becoming a spin bowling allrounder in and out of side. The cricket world is littered with players that bits and pieces of both but master of neither. Make sure you make one of the bowling and batting your master. For Imran that was certainly his bowling. For Green this certainly needs to be the batting. Our lack of batting talent is scary in Shield scene. We need him to become a specialist bat first, rather than bits and pieces player or just bowler that is handy bat, which is easier to come by. Guys capable of averaging over 50 with bat do not grow on trees...

 

[Marcel Proust]

Most allrounders end up like Imran or Miller where they really just bowling allrounders that bat a bit. Actually for Imran I saw him as gun bowler rather than allrounder. I not want to see Green become a bowler that bats a bit. I not want that to happen to Green. His batting has way more potential. I honestly think he capable of being second only to Sobers if he puts a lot more time into his batting development. Steve Smith was so close to just becoming a spin bowling allrounder in and out of side. The cricket world is littered with players that bits and pieces of both but master of neither. Make sure you make one of the bowling and batting your master. For Imran that was certainly his bowling. For Green this certainly needs to be the batting. Our lack of batting talent is scary in Shield scene. We need him to become a specialist bat first, rather than bits and pieces player or just bowler that is handy bat, which is easier to come by. Guys capable of averaging over 50 with bat do not grow on trees...

Green already looks as good as the 4th and 5th quicks in the country with the ball.

How many 6'6 bowlers do we having coming up that can bowl 145 and move it?

 

[Pippen94]

Most allrounders end up like Imran or Miller where they really just bowling allrounders that bat a bit. Actually for Imran I saw him as gun bowler rather than allrounder. I not want to see Green become a bowler that bats a bit. I not want that to happen to Green. His batting has way more potential. I honestly think he capable of being second only to Sobers if he puts a lot more time into his batting development. Steve Smith was so close to just becoming a spin bowling allrounder in and out of side. The cricket world is littered with players that bits and pieces of both but master of neither. Make sure you make one of the bowling and batting your master. For Imran that was certainly his bowling. For Green this certainly needs to be the batting. Our lack of batting talent is scary in Shield scene. We need him to become a specialist bat first, rather than bits and pieces player or just bowler that is handy bat, which is easier to come by. Guys capable of averaging over 50 with bat do not grow on trees...

No other players match Imran & Miller statswise. Like I said they are the bowling equivalent of sobers & kallis. Both legit batsmen don't let averages fool you - peaked around top ten in world with bat at their best. Certainly there are specialist batsman who've had long careers with similar records.

Green's bowling looks even better than many previously imagined. Could go either way or simply be a pure all rounder.

Wanting him to be a sobers instead of an imran is weird because both once in life time players

 

[footyfan1978]

Green already looks as good as the 4th and 5th quicks in the country with the ball.

How many 6'6 bowlers do we having coming up that can bowl 145 and move it?

We got plenty of bowlers. His bowling talent is not going anywhere but his batting potential could go down the drain and only average 30 if he does not develop it properly. Big difference between only averaging 30 and 50 in Test cricket. I do not think you understand how difficult the task is to become a gun bat in Test cricket. We need it badly or we going to become an ordinary Test side. With Pucoski health always a concern finding gun bats for Test side is a real challenge. Let's not make the mistake that been made before with guys that have great batting potential and never really become guns they could have been in Test cricket.

 

[footyfan1978]

No other players match Imran & Miller statswise. Like I said they are the bowling equivalent of sobers & kallis. Both legit batsmen don't let averages fool you - peaked around top ten in world with bat at their best. Certainly there are specialist batsman who've had long careers with similar records.

Green's bowling looks even better than many previously imagined. Could go either way or simply be a pure all rounder.

Wanting him to be a sobers instead of an imran is weird because both once in life time players

I'm not expecting Sobers level. That out of this world. He was once in hundred year player.
Give me the gun specialist bat over bits and pieces player every time if got the choice.