Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Bunk Moreland]

 

[iameviljez]

Just because the team is old doesn't mean there's no youth coming through.
Clarko hasn't fielded many kids in years, preferring to let the develop in the VFL.

It's frustrating for hawks fans that do see a lot of vfl

Having young players who are playing well in the VFL doesn't mean much, though - every afl-listed player *should* be doing well at VFL level and it doesn't necessarily translate to AFL success.

 

[fpm84]

How on earth is Puopolo retaining his spot every week? I don't think I've seen him play a good game in about two years and was shocked he was even offered a contract for 2020.

Hawks fans, where are Lewis and Scrimshaw? They looked your best young prospects by a mile last year.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

How on earth is Puopolo retaining his spot every week? I don't think I've seen him play a good game in about two years and was shocked he was even offered a contract for 2020.

Hawks fans, where are Lewis and Scrimshaw? They looked your best young prospects by a mile last year.

Beats us, both had very interrupted pre seasons so we can only guess Clarko doesn’t feel they are up to scratch fitness wise? Hard to get game fit with no VFL as well, hopefully they play well in the scratch match and force a spot in the team.

Poppy has to go, he is so far past his best at this point. I was okay with him getting a contract but it needs to be just injury insurance.

 

[btdg]

I think Hawthorn will win this week, while fielding the oldest team in The history the league which will make this thread quite interesting.

 

[Cadillac]

I actually think we've got a really exciting list from a youth stand point- the problem is Clarko is very methodical with how he introduces them to AFL footy and I think in the next couple years that's going to be unsustainable.
The way I'm viewing it at the minute is-
Old players currently getting regular games who won't be in the side in two years:
Smith, Burgers, BB, Hendo, Frawley, Poppy, Stratts,
Young players who are waiting for their time to come in currently:
Lewis, Walker, Jones, Ross, Jeka, Moore, Nash, Day, Maginness, Pepper, Scrimshaw, Cj

Given we know Clarko extremely rarely lets a young player into the starting 22 as a permanent feature (Worps being the last) I'm expecting at least six of these young players to become regulars in the side- personally I'm really excited for Lewis, Jeka, Nash, Day, Maginness, Pepper, Scrimshaw and Cj to become mainstay players. My thinking on the situation is that Clarko is giving this core group as much time to build chemistry with eachother at the level down before they come into the side in a short period of time. This group combined with the youth already getting regular game time at the minute gives me a lot of hope in the Hawks system working for the next while.
I think Clarko is aiming for a hard push in the next two years to help justify the recruitment of players like Patton, Scully and Wingard (not that I think any of them need justifying at all) before we see the next really exciting period of growth and change within our club.

That youth you mentioned absolutely pale in comparison to the youth at other clubs. And the fact Clarko isn’t playing them in the AFL solidifies that. You can win by not rebuilding. But you need to hit on your draft picks regardless. Bringing in guys like Wingard is only keeping you above water. It isn’t making you a genuine contender. I am so bloody relieved that Wingard turned us down. If he hadn’t we would have traded out first round pick for him that we used on Bailey Smith

 

[Bradkli]

Lose lose lose for us tonight:

win- "you beat the Tigers without their best player and shorter quarters, so it doesn't count"

Win-"You should have won tonight..you fielded the oldest team in AFL/VFL history"

lose- "you just lost to the Tigers without their best player, whilst fielding the oldest side in AFL/VFL history"

 

[Gavin Excell]

How on earth is Puopolo retaining his spot every week? I don't think I've seen him play a good game in about two years and was shocked he was even offered a contract for 2020.

Hawks fans, where are Lewis and Scrimshaw? They looked your best young prospects by a mile last year.

It's odd

Perhaps they have not done certain things asked of them behind the scenes or not quite right fitness wise

Impossible to explain, as is the Mcevoy down back and not playing first ruck

 

[Bradkli]

It's odd

Perhaps they have not done certain things asked of them behind the scenes or not quite right fitness wise

Impossible to explain, as is the Mcevoy down back and not playing first ruck

Puopolo and hanrahan are playing because we have no one else to play the small forward role other than former saint darren minchington...we will see michington get games from either next week or the week after when hanrahan gets dropped..puopolo should have been dropped half through last season never to be played again but Clarko loves him.

Connor Nash played as a pressure" forward last season, but he is 2-3 years off playing consistent senior footy.

Our "small forward" stocks are grim and arguably the worst in the AFL. Luke Breust would be our only current "small-medium" forward that would get a game for just about every other club.

 

[Pessimistic]

Puopolo and hanrahan are playing because we have no one else to play the small forward role other than former saint darren minchington...we will see michington get games from either next week or the week after when hanrahan gets dropped..puopolo should have been dropped half through last season never to be played again but Clarko loves him.

Connor Nash played as a pressure" forward last season, but he is 2-3 years off playing consistent senior footy.

Our "small forward" stocks are grim and arguably the worst in the AFL. Luke Breust would be our only current "small-medium" forward that would get a game for just about every other club.

Bruest Wingard and Burgoyne with 3 each in round 1 is a pretty good small forward return. They had to help shore up elsewhere in round 2.

Has another club had 3 small forwards kick 3 goals each in a game recently? Brisbane aren't easy beats

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Beats us, both had very interrupted pre seasons so we can only guess Clarko doesn’t feel they are up to scratch fitness wise? Hard to get game fit with no VFL as well, hopefully they play well in the scratch match and force a spot in the team.

Poppy has to go, he is so far past his best at this point. I was okay with him getting a contract but it needs to be just injury insurance.

Lewis obviously looked great last year.

Fair enough if he’s injured.

 

[Pessimistic]

When a team recruits mature players for best 22. They tend to play them and they get to stay in the team longer then a promoted seconds player.

Patton and Frost would be keeping Lewis and Scrimshaw out. Patton had little opportunity last week but Frost was good

 

[Bradkli]

Bruest Wingard and Burgoyne with 3 each in round 1 is a pretty good small forward return. They had to help shore up elsewhere in round 2.

Has another club had 3 small forwards kick 3 goals each in a game recently? Brisbane aren't easy beats

Wingard is playing a lot more midfield/high half forward because our midfield is weak. When he was recruited, he would have been recruited to play 80% forward and 20% mid. It’s basically been the opposite. Not his fault..guys like Moore, Nash, cousins, howe (currently injured), Morrison have not nearly developed and come on like the coaches and list managers would have expected...all have been disappointing.

Burgoyne is far from a small forward..and the fact he is still one of our 5 best players is exactly what is wrong with our current list/team.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Lose lose lose for us tonight:

win- "you beat the Tigers without their best player and shorter quarters, so it doesn't count"

Win-"You should have won tonight..you fielded the oldest team in AFL/VFL history"

lose- "you just lost to the Tigers without their best player, whilst fielding the oldest side in AFL/VFL history"

Are we playing a game of AFL or are we playing a game of bigfooty?

 

[TylerDurden]

Lewis obviously looked great last year.

Fair enough if he’s injured.

He's fine. They want OBrien instead.
Should be playing. I'm with you.

 

[TylerDurden]

How on earth is Puopolo retaining his spot every week? I don't think I've seen him play a good game in about two years and was shocked he was even offered a contract for 2020.

Hawks fans, where are Lewis and Scrimshaw? They looked your best young prospects by a mile last year.

Cant argue here.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Are we playing a game of AFL or are we playing a game of bigfooty?

Exactly

4 points is very much a win

 

[Bunk Moreland]

He's fine. They want OBrien instead.
Should be playing. I'm with you.

If it’s like every other footy club on earth it’ll be “he does the defensive things better” meanwhile the other bloke is tearing down one-grab marks from four-deep and kicking bags

 

[Pessimistic]

Wingard is playing a lot more midfield/high half forward because our midfield is weak. When he was recruited, he would have been recruited to play 80% forward and 20% mid. It’s basically been the opposite. Not his fault..guys like Moore, Nash, cousins, howe (currently injured), Morrison have not nearly developed and come on like the coaches and list managers would have expected...all have been disappointing.

Burgoyne is far from a small forward..and the fact he is still one of our 5 best players is exactly what is wrong with our current list/team.

In that case, when our midfield is firing, midfielders are taking up the slack

 

[TylerDurden]

If it’s like every other footy club on earth it’ll be “he does the defensive things better” meanwhile the other bloke is tearing down one-grab marks from four-deep and kicking bags

Yep. It's flattening. Injuries will hit soon and those guys will get a go, as with most clubs.

 

[SherbertLemon]

Lose lose lose for us tonight:

win- "you beat the Tigers without their best player and shorter quarters, so it doesn't count"

Win-"You should have won tonight..you fielded the oldest team in AFL/VFL history"

lose- "you just lost to the Tigers without their best player, whilst fielding the oldest side in AFL/VFL history"

Sounds excellent

 

[schmuttt]

Hawks don't get much wrong but reckon Stratton has been a pretty crap pick as captain. Should have gone with Gunston IMO

 

[WilloTree]

Was also when if you had a really bad year you could get 2 top 5 picks.

And, there were only 16 teams, so your 2nd pick was about pick 19-20. That's still a first rounder nowadays.

Rebuilding now with 18 clubs, F/S and Academy players and no Priority Picks (except for Qld clubs) is so much harder than when the hawks did it last time round.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Hawks don't get much wrong but reckon Stratton has been a pretty crap pick as captain. Should have gone with Gunston IMO

Most would agree, he was disappointing as a player last season and also a leader. He is getting on, struggling for form and can’t lose his spot because he is captain.

Jaeger, Gunston, Mitchell, Shiels all would have been very good options.

 

[cryptor]

Hawks don't get much wrong but reckon Stratton has been a pretty crap pick as captain. Should have gone with Gunston IMO

Potentially he would be right now as he was the VC, but he stepped down from that role himself for some reason. I'll be surprised if O'Meara isn't captain in 2021, if not effectively captain later in 2020 if Stratton is dropped - which is entirely possible given his very rocky form over the last year.