Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[footyfan1978]

Why did I think Lloyd Meet was Sudanese? That man is clearly not Sudanese.

I'm sure if just a part of your brain that saw Lloyd Meek and made you think it was Leek, the Giants player.
BTW, his surname is Meek with a k...

 

[La Dispute]

I really think Hawks has done well.

Meek is a solid player, more draft picks, and future salary cap space.

The issue is, as with a lot of rebuilding sides, is that salary cap space is basically redundant.

Meeting the TPP floor isn’t easy when quality players no longer want to join and you’ve either go to overpay role players from other clubs or put your younger players on inflated contracts.

 

[big footy cyril]

I know you disagree but I personally think that is a bad call as most teams that go super young don't succeed. Even Ross Ryon said "you need older Elephants to teach the younger Elephants how to be Elephants"

You need the older guys to guide the younger ones. Not having that is why teams like Gold Coast, Carlton and Melbourne failed time and time again. It is why North Melbourne are down the bottom now as they cut their older players all at once and left only the young guys with no one to guide them.

Ross Lyon was allergic to youth

 

[eastfreo75]

Load up on the Hawks for the spoon.

Worst midfield in the comp somehow got a crap load worse

If you don't drive the old car out of the driveway, you won't get a new car.

 

[eastfreo75]

The issue is, as with a lot of rebuilding sides, is that salary cap space is basically redundant.

Meeting the TPP floor isn’t easy when quality players no longer want to join and you’ve either go to overpay role players from other clubs or put your younger players on inflated contracts.

Two words, Suns, Giants.

Front load some contracts and go after young talent from the northern states.

 

[RUNVS]

Two words, Suns, Giants.

Front load some contracts and go after young talent from the northern states.

Then you potentially have a Gary Ablett Jnr situation where after the big years of his contract he suddenly wants to change clubs.

 

[La Dispute]

Two words, Suns, Giants.

Front load some contracts and go after young talent from the northern states.

Where did Bowes, Taranto, Bruhn and Hopper end up?

Certainly weren’t bottom sides.

 

[Bradkli]

Lions need more points and you can trade up your later picks.

Yes, two years will be a grind but I think no pain no gain.

Seems like you have the spine in place and just needs to get a few stars in the middle.

we have one of the worst spines in the comp.. Our full back was picked up from Box Hill in last year's mid-season draft. We have no centre half back. Grainger-Barass is years off being a consistently good player. We have no centre half forward as well.

Our key position forwards heading into next year are Mitch Lewis, Jacob Koschitske and Jai Serong.. That's the worst crop of key forwards in the league.

 

[HairyO]

we have one of the worst spines in the comp.. Our full back was picked up from Box Hill in last year's mid-season draft. We have no centre half back. Grainger-Barass is years off being a consistently good player. We have no centre half forward as well.

Our key position forwards heading into next year are Mitch Lewis, Jacob Koschitske and Jai Serong.. That's the worst crop of key forwards in the league.

Ramsden most likely forward too.

Its pretty clear Mitchell wants to go for a very good draft pick next year and build from 2024.

 

[hawkman]

we have one of the worst spines in the comp.. Our full back was picked up from Box Hill in last year's mid-season draft. We have no centre half back. Grainger-Barass is years off being a consistently good player. We have no centre half forward as well.

Our key position forwards heading into next year are Mitch Lewis, Jacob Koschitske and Jai Serong.. That's the worst crop of key forwards in the league.

Sicily is the CHB

 

[Shadow89]

Gonna be a rough year next year for Hawk's fans.

Mitchell, JOM, Shiels, Gunston, McEvoy - is a lot of experience and class to lose in one off-season. They'll get better in years to come, as they always do, but having this as your midfield is really gonna make it near impossible to compete against the biggest bodies in the AFL:

C: Amon, Worpel, Impey
FO: Meek/Reeves, Newcombe, Nash
INT: Ward (wing rotation), Wingard (forward rotation), Stephens (midfield rotation), Maginness (utility)

 

[Gavin Excell]

we have one of the worst spines in the comp.. Our full back was picked up from Box Hill in last year's mid-season draft. We have no centre half back. Grainger-Barass is years off being a consistently good player. We have no centre half forward as well.

Our key position forwards heading into next year are Mitch Lewis, Jacob Koschitske and Jai Serong.. That's the worst crop of key forwards in the league.

Candid comments Bradkil

 

[Bradkli]

Sicily is the CHB

Sicily is elite!! I love him but that just proves my point. He shouldn't be a centre half back. He's forced to play there because how bare are key position stocks are. He would be an even better third man up defender. How he didn't make All-Australian last year was criminal.

 

[SSSSSS]

We had the worst midfield in the comp and ripped the bandaid off to try and actively improve it for the next two years.

The narrative is poor for Hawthorn either way.

Keep Mitchell/JOM and be seen as doing nothing.
Flog them off and suddenly we are culling the list too quick. Both were gone next year for even less, may as well cash in while we can.

Sam Mitchell is riding the youth lightning and I'm all for it.

 

[hawkman]

Sicily is elite!! I love him but that just proves my point. He shouldn't be a centre half back. He's forced to play there because how bare are key position stocks are. He would be an even better third man up defender. How he didn't make All-Australian last year was criminal.

He should have been All Australian playing as a CHB this year. You can't then say we have no CHB when Sicily has played there all year and was 1 of the best defenders in the league

 

[hawkman]

Gonna be a rough year next year for Hawk's fans.

Mitchell, JOM, Shiels, Gunston, McEvoy - is a lot of experience and class to lose in one off-season. They'll get better in years to come, as they always do, but having this as your midfield is really gonna make it near impossible to compete against the biggest bodies in the AFL:

C: Amon, Worpel, Impey
FO: Meek/Reeves, Newcombe, Nash
INT: Ward (wing rotation), Wingard (forward rotation), Stephens (midfield rotation), Maginness (utility)

Shiels and McEvoy barely played

Generally only 1 of Mitchell or O'Meara was in the middle at one time. The midfield has been awful for 4 seasons with them in there so the mix might improve with them gone. Could also go backwards but it was already a low base. Hopefully we can keep 2 rucks fit this season which will help the midfield immensely instead of playing Kosi/Nash as 2nd ruck

Gunston will be a loss was important in a couple of wins although we were 3-3 without him this season

 

[eastfreo75]

We had the worst midfield in the comp and ripped the bandaid off to try and actively improve it for the next two years.

The narrative is poor for Hawthorn either way.

Keep Mitchell/JOM and be seen as doing nothing.
Flog them off and suddenly we are culling the list too quick. Both were gone next year for even less, may as well cash in while we can.

Sam Mitchell is riding the youth lightning and I'm all for it.

The reality is that either way the hawks weren't going to win a lot of games next year.

Worpel had a great year when Mitchell wasn't there.

Ward will be given more midfield time.

We won't know if it was a good decision until 3 years later.

 

[SSSSSS]

The reality is that either way the hawks weren't going to win a lot of games next year.

Worpel had a great year when Mitchell wasn't there.

Ward will be given more midfield time.

We won't know if it was a good decision until 3 years later.

Mitchell and JOM squeezes us maybe an extra 8 points a season. Big whoop where we are at.

If it gets 2 other kids 20+ games this season I'm all for it.

 

[eastfreo75]

Mitchell and JOM squeezes us maybe an extra 8 points a season. Big whoop where we are at.

If it gets 2 other kids 20+ games this season I'm all for it.

Its the 60 points plus losses that hurt.

By the way, it's a good move by the club.

 

[RUNVS]

Mitchell and JOM squeezes us maybe an extra 8 points a season. Big whoop where we are at.

If it gets 2 other kids 20+ games this season I'm all for it.

If Hawthorn find themselves in a situation where they are being beaten by big numbers most weeks it doesn't help with youth development, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[SSSSSS]

Its the 60 points plus losses that hurt.

By the way, it's a good move by the club.

We've shown this year that we are far too defensively solid to be on the end of consistent hidings. The odd one yes, but we have a stackload of talent down back.

Even when under siege with our midfield leaking like a sieve this year they still held their own.

 

[RUNVS]

We've shown this year that we are far too defensively solid to be on the end of consistent hidings. The odd one yes, but we have a stackload of talent down back.

Even when under siege with our midfield leaking like a sieve this year they still held their own.

You were defensively solid with Mitchell and O'Meara in the team winning ball and laying tackles. Will you be as defensively solid if you are not winning as much of the ball. So much of a teams defense starts in the middle. If the midfielders struggle defending then a teams defensive structure can fall apart.

I am a Swans fan, I know what happens when the midfield does not step up. It completely exposes the defence and gives your forwards no look in.

 

[eastfreo75]

We've shown this year that we are far too defensively solid to be on the end of consistent hidings. The odd one yes, but we have a stackload of talent down back.

Even when under siege with our midfield leaking like a sieve this year they still held their own.

Every defender looks silly and slow when the ball coming in has no pressure.

 

[SSSSSS]

You were defensively solid with Mitchell and O'Meara in the team winning ball and laying tackles. Will you be as defensively solid if you are not winning as much of the ball. So much of a teams defense starts in the middle. If the midfielders struggle defending then a teams defensive structure can fall apart.

Mitchell is not the tackling machine he once was pre leg-break. Too often we see his direct opponent running off him and Mitchell chasing tail. Same with JOM.

Our team defense already sucked donkey dick in the middle with Mitchell and JOM. It might get a fraction worse temporarily but it won't break the bank. If anything Mitchell and JOM getting shifted out allows Finn and Nash our two most defensively minded young midfielders more consistent time in the middle.

I see us finishing bottom 4. Likely not bottom 6 next season but a welcome surprise it would be. North and Eagles are almost untouchables at the bottom 2 at the moment. Essendon the real wild card for me.

 

[Hamingja]

The thread has been going so long the original premise may be redundant.

Mitchell clearly going for the original Clarko rebuild. Things are a bit different to 20 years ago. He would want to be able to find the next Hodge, Franklin and Roughead sharpish, looks like there is a lot of pain on the horizon.