Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[hk89]

Yes I’m sure having Lewis who hadn’t had a kick, Shiels who had done absolutely nothing and scrimshaw play out the game would have made a difference.

Good, because it would be ridiculous to say anything else. You do understand what a rotation is right? Shiels often plays a lockdown role, so it is not unusual for the clueless to think he's having a bad game, because they don't hear his name mentioned or see massive numbers next to his name, when actually he's played a role. Scrimshaw was having a decent game, and was probably one of our defenders who wasn't getting completely pantsed before he went off.

We win this game, we'd have been equal top. We're nowhere near as bad as you'd like us to be.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Surely Clarkson swallows his pride and acknowledges that the Mcevoy non ruck experiment has been an error.

In a position where they paid Ceglar enough that they need to play both him and McEvoy but shortened quarters has hurt them.

 

[Ambrosia]

Didn't help the margin, but with less scoring shots than your opposition, this isn't usually a leg worth trying to stand on.

I'm sure you don't. You're about as objective when it comes to Hawthorn as I am.

Wouldn’t say I’m overly anti Hawthorn. I’m on record in this thread as agreeing with this list strategy and even defending it. I just think they have to be prepared to cut there losses and play the kids at some point.

I think most Hawthorn supporters would agree their list isn’t in the best space atm with Puopolo still getting a game.

 

[WillHayward]

Yep. Big Boy in the ruck.

And TOB or Patton need to do more.

Poppy out for Impey.

Still lacking good quality yoof.

 

[Ambrosia]

Surely Clarkson swallows his pride and acknowledges that the Mcevoy non ruck experiment has been an error.

Got the vibe that giving McEvoy coaches votes against North was an attempt to justify the decision to move him to defence.

 

[hk89]

Surely Clarkson swallows his pride and acknowledges that the Mcevoy non ruck experiment has been an error.

Well Clarko playing him in the Ruck and Forward and that move firing a comeback is probably as close to a confession as you are likely to get.

Whether he actually doubles down next week and starts with him back will be interesting. I think it works well against some teams, so he could do it without being stubborn in my book. I reckon it is not a bad idea if Cox plays forward next week. Doesn't have the pace the make McEvoy look silly. We didn't control the midfield enough to make it work this week. Skilful GWS midfield delivering to a fairly mobile (for their size) forward line make the experiment look bad. Looked bad against Geelong too when we lost the midfield battle, but when we've controlled the midfield it has been fine, and in fact he's been good in those games because he reads the high ball well. He's just too easily exploited with fast, and well directed delivery. A lot of defenders don't fare well under those conditions though, so he's not Robinson Crusoe in that department.

 

[Pessimistic]

Interesting season. Hawks were better towards the end of last season. But I wouldn’t guarantee that

and having a ruck in the backline an experiment? They used to do it all the time in the past, particularly to save a game.
It may not continue, but it’s there as an option now

 

[Hawk_francais]

Yep. Big Boy in the ruck.

And TOB or Patton need to do more.

Poppy out for Impey.

Still lacking good quality yoof.

I wish. Is a few weeks away.

The youth is there, two good young-uns went down today. Mitch Lewis might be in struggle-town at the minute, but he's a young key forward... it happens. Debutant played well and he'll play next week too. Got Maginness who's also a shot to come in.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Wouldn’t say I’m overly anti Hawthorn. I’m on record in this thread as agreeing with this list strategy and even defending it. I just think they have to be prepared to cut there losses and play the kids at some point.

I think most Hawthorn supporters would agree their list isn’t in the best space atm with Puopolo still getting a game.

See this is a perfectly fair and balanced take, need more of them.

 

[Cadillac]

I’m jealous of that youth.

 

[StevoBruiser]

Surely Clarkson swallows his pride and acknowledges that the Mcevoy non ruck experiment has been an error.

There were multiple brown and gold loads blown over this move the other week but clearly it’s a bad move. Clarko will persist with it anyway.

 

[Pessimistic]

Also for all teams, there’s talk lists will be cut drastically over a few years.

will all teams be tempted to take in cast offs who fit a need rather than concentrate so much on drafting

also those ones not picked up in draft, they’ll play somewhere else? And be mature pick ups.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

Of course they can. Wingard at 26yo is better than a first round pick. Will be in the same vein as silk in the long term. Clarkson is a master.

 

[hk89]

Frawley, Poppy, Stratton, McEvoy, Henderson, Burgoyne.

All cooked.

Only one of those is fully cooked (Poppy). Stratton has looked cooked, but his last two weeks were not terrible. Stratton played on Toby today, who barely touched it when inside 50, with most of his possessions coming up the ground. I've not been a big fan of Stratton this year (or him continuing with captaincy), but keeping one of the competitions best small forwards to 1 goal is a good game in anyone's book. Henderson has not started the season well, but it is harsh to say a guy coming off his best season where he was unlucky not to get AA nomination is suddenly cooked. If he plays the rest of the season as he has started it, then I'll agree. Frawley and McEvoy not cooked at all. Burgoyne's output is slowly going down, but the way he is used, it doesn't impact him that much, still contributes at a high level when asked to. He is easily justifying a spot in the side most weeks, which is more than can be said for Poppy (and Stratton for the first 3 weeks of the season). I'm hoping when Impey returns, Burgoyne can be used down forward where he is still going to be a tough matchup for most defenders.

If you want to point the finger, Sicily had a poor game, Lewis has only just got back in the side after surgery and is struggling to regain his form from late last season, and was poor up forward. TOB had zero impact.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

There were multiple brown and gold loads blown over this move the other week but clearly it’s a bad move. Clarko will persist with it anyway.

Meh Big Boy has been playing well down back and when Cegs does well (like against the Tiges) it does work. Cleary it is reliant on Ceglar pulling his weight which he has struggled with the past two weeks.

Terrified to think what Grundy will do to him.

 

[Ambrosia]

Interesting season. Hawks were better towards the end of last season. But I wouldn’t guarantee that

and having a ruck in the backline an experiment? They used to do it all the time in the past, particularly to save a game.
It may not continue, but it’s there as an option now

A ruck playing loose. McEvoy is playing as a genuine backman. I’m not sure I hate the decision given the current version of Hooker has very similar attributes at this point in his career but I do wonder if they’d be suited playing deep forward.

 

[hk89]

I think most Hawthorn supporters would agree their list isn’t in the best space atm with Puopolo still getting a game.

Not getting a replacement for Poppy in the off season was a big disappointment. Every list has weak points. Right now the lack of a replacement small pressure forward for Poppy is one of our larger ones. Having weak points doesn't necessarily reflect the space your list is in. Essendon would be equal top right now if they'd played and won their missing game against Melbourne, but they have weak points on almost every line. Even a team with GWS's talent has weak points, and the reigning premier has them too. No Breust today made Poppy's inadequacy even more obvious than it normally would be. Of course other holes exist, but that one is one of our biggest. With neither Lewis or Patton having much impact this season so far, a functioning genuine KPF is another, but Lewis is young, and Patton has barely played in a long time, so we could still see either of those two fill that hole. At least both of them seem to want to play at the club.

 

[hk89]

There were multiple brown and gold loads blown over this move the other week but clearly it’s a bad move. Clarko will persist with it anyway.

If I could blow golden loads, I'd be finding better things to do than argue with numpties on bigfooty.

 

[hk89]

I wish. Is a few weeks away.

The youth is there, two good young-uns went down today. Mitch Lewis might be in struggle-town at the minute, but he's a young key forward... it happens. Debutant played well and he'll play next week too. Got Maginness who's also a shot to come in.

And our first round pick from last year, who is by all reports all class, but has a light frame that might make it hard for him to get a run in the AFL this season.

 

[Ambrosia]

Not getting a replacement for Poppy in the off season was a big disappointment. Every list has weak points. Right now the lack of a replacement small pressure forward for Poppy is one of our larger ones. Having weak points doesn't necessarily reflect the space your list is in. Essendon would be equal top right now if they'd played and won their missing game against Melbourne, but they have weak points on almost every line. Even a team with GWS's talent has weak points, and the reigning premier has them too. No Breust today made Poppy's inadequacy even more obvious than it normally would be. Of course other holes exist, but that one is one of our biggest. With neither Lewis or Patton having much impact this season so far, a functioning genuine KPF is another, but Lewis is young, and Patton has barely played in a long time, so we could still see either of those two fill that hole. At least both of them seem to want to play at the club.

Pressure small forward is not a tough role for any young small with athleticism to play. Puopolo still getting a game is a sign Clarkson doesn’t trust any of the kids coming through.

 

[Vindicater]

This thread is no fun when Hawthorn win...

Much better this week already...

 

[hk89]

Pressure small forward is not a tough role for any young small with athleticism to play.

Nonsense. There is a combination of speed and strength that makes it a tricky role to fill. Ideally you can also kick an opportunistic goal or two each week too. We've got players at BH that have the goal sense, but some of those options lack the body maturity to provide the strength, and others that have the strength, lack the closing speed, so Poppy keeps getting a game.

Puopolo still getting a game is a sign Clarkson doesn’t trust any of the kids coming through.

That's because none of them have the attributes at this point to be better than Poppy. I agree its an issue, and as I said, I wished we'd recruited another option. I suspect we tried, as Poppy was given a contract right at the end of the trade of the period, and not before, so I reckon we were waiting to see if we could find someone. Minchington might be the closest thing we have as an option right now at Box Hill (or whatever we're calling our second tier team at the moment), the others are either too immature or too slow for the role.

Poppy has always been a bottom 5 players for us, even though he did play an important role. Pointing at a bottom 5 player on a list and saying "having a bottom 5 player getting a game in your side says something about your list" is frankly bullshit. Having a player in your top 10 that would be bottom 5 on a good team's list is a much better indicator of a list in trouble, and I don't think we have any of those.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Today was pretty ugly. I'm concerned Worpel has no role with Mitchell in the side. Hawthorn can ostensibly only play one.

we will take him

 

[hawkman]

Butler would have been great addition for our forward line. Was cheap and a much better option than Puopolo for this season. Was disappointed we didn't go after him last year and is showing what he can do this season

 

[fnerd]

Got found out big time today by a team that’s built their list through the draft and it showed.

Hawks will beat the meddling sides but will get put to the sword by the top sides.... the ones built via elite talent of the draft