Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Dewyyyyy]

So, like 2017. 2019 and 2021?

People get way too hung up on winning games vs top 8 sides and/or winning games in the back half of the season. My team is hot garbage and if win the next few we'll still be hot garbage.

No.

You can see a difference, if you can't idk, must be a you issue.

Winning games due to your senior and better players keeping you afloat and driving it, ala 2017 and 2019 and arguably 2021 (the least of the three).

It's the same this year except it's all driven by youth and the future. That's where the difference aligns.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yeah, that translated well in September. Averaged 71.5 point per game at St Kilda and 77 with Freo. Super.



You're certainly up and about.

Your team scored a measly 11.13.79 to win a grand final in 2018.


Shall we talk again about west coasts finals chances in 2023? LoL

 

[Scotland]

Your team scored a measly 11.13.79 to win a grand final in 2018.


Shall we talk again about west coasts finals chances in 2023? LoL

I don't think anyone wants to talk about WC in this thread except you.

2018 we scored 92 a game then 86, 121 and 79 in the finals, so 95 a game. Almost like we didn't play dour, negative footy in the finals.

 

[Scotland]

No.

You can see a difference, if you can't idk, must be a you issue.

Winning games due to your senior and better players keeping you afloat and driving it, ala 2017 and 2019 and arguably 2021 (the least of the three).

It's the same this year except it's all driven by youth and the future. That's where the difference aligns.

You're 4-11. That's what I see.

Every year teams outside the 8 win a couple of games against top 8 sides and/or come home with a wet sail, and every year fans get carried away counting unhatched chickens.

 

[Freomaniac]

I don't think anyone wants to talk about WC in this thread except you.

2018 we scored 92 a game then 86, 121 and 79 in the finals, so 95 a game. Almost like we didn't play dour, negative footy in the finals.

West coast played Ross Lyon footy in the 2018 AFL Grand final lol

 

[Scotland]

West coast played Ross Lyon footy in the 2018 AFL Grand final lol

79 points in a GF is the stuff dreams a made of when Ross Lyon is your coach. Seeing as this is a HAWTHORN thread, maybe ask Hawthorn fans?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You're 4-11. That's what I see.

Every year teams outside the 8 win a couple of games against top 8 sides and/or come home with a wet sail, and every year fans get carried away counting unhatched chickens.

You say a couple, but our record in general against Top 8 sides, wins and losses out of the equation have been really good for where we're currently at. We've obviously been inconsistent but most young sides are, there's plenty of talent on the list also.

 

[Scotland]

You say a couple, but our record in general, wins and losses out of the equation have been really good. We've obviously been inconsistent but most young sides are, there's plenty of talent on the list also.

I love BigFooty.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I love BigFooty.

I actually edited, i meant against top 8 sides, but yeah...

 

[almuz]

I love BigFooty.

TBF for a rebuilding side results based analysis is pretty much useless - maybe we win vs Blues and Pies and the media/bigfooty likes us a bit more but long term (2/3 years later) it doesn’t matter unless you’re getting smashed each week.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Results against top 8 teams in order.
1st Melbourne lost by 10. (this was without our best forward in Lewis aswell as the main out).
2nd Geelong won by 12.
3rd Brisbane won by 5.
4th Fremantle lost by 13. (Again without our best forward in Lewis, aswell as Gunston, had a few injuries in an away game.)
5th Carlton lost by 1.
6th Collingwood lost by 4.
7th Richmond lost by 23.
8th Sydney lost by 41, lead half way through the last quarter and most of the game, ran out of legs.

Not bad for a young side with a new coach in his first year playing an aggressive game style, while most sides early on in rebuilds try to minimise damage.

 

[Engimal v3]

No, I don't think so

 

[almuz]

No, I don't think so

Nah c’mon just you wait, we’re bringing Clarko back and trading our first rounder for Matt Crouch. Then we’ll finally get that flag without bottoming out.

 

[WillHayward]

A lot to like about Hawks right now and about to get a top 4 pick .

 

[craffles]

Don't really care tbh.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

A lot to like about Hawks right now and about to get a top 4 pick .

It's gonna be good, lets say we pick up one of the top mid picks in Wardlaw, Sheezel, Tsatas or Phillipou, Jhye Clark also and pick up D'Aloia or another mid in the 2nd round, our midfield group builds big time for the future, while still having good senior players, our defense looks immense and our forwardline looks pretty good, it really won't be long.

The answer to the thread tho, is no.

 

[WillHayward]

It's gonna be good, lets say we pick up one of the top mid picks in Wardlaw, Sheezel, Tsatas or Phillipou, Jhye Clark also and pick up D'Aloia or another mid in the 2nd round, our midfield group builds big time for the future, while still having good senior players, our defense looks immense and our forwardline looks pretty good, it really won't be long.

The answer to the thread tho, is no.

Ur backline is elite already.

Mids need work/drafting.

Tall fwds good. Maybe need a decent mid fwd now also.

 

[Freomaniac]

A lot to like about Hawks right now and about to get a top 4 pick .

Hawks predicted a quick rebuild when they finished bottom 6 in 2017. Yeah they fought and got top 4 in 2018 but they got out in straight sets.

No finals since

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Ur backline is elite already.

Mids need work/drafting.

Tall fwds good. Maybe need a decent mid fwd now also.

Mid/small fwds look pretty good, could use one more.

Brockman, Butler (MacDonald gonna be a mid-fwd) and Moore.

Midfield group doesn't look horrid, but adding two high class ones this off season will be key and will make it look really good.

Newcombe, Ward, MacDonald, Day (mid/wing), Worpel, Maginness, add D'Aloia and Phillipou/Sheezel/Tsatas/Wardlaw and it looks significantly better.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Hawks predicted a quick rebuild when they finished bottom 6 in 2017. Yeah they fought and got top 4 in 2018 but they got out in straight sets.

No finals since

Yep but i see where he's coming from, i'd say we'll probably play finals in 2024, could sneak in next year but you'd honestly prefer we didn't so we get a higher pick which benefits long term for a long run at it.

 

[Roddy]

Don't really care tbh.

I just love people who take the time and effort to post that they don’t care…

 

[Red Bull]

Hawks predicted a quick rebuild when they finished bottom 6 in 2017. Yeah they fought and got top 4 in 2018 but they got out in straight sets.

No finals since

Rebuilds are hard work.
Not everything goes to plan along the way.
There are injuries, new players don’t come on as hoped, existing quality players retire, other teams improve, membership drops away, covid affected draft development, priority picks to other teams, introduction of new teams, Dingley behind schedule ? costs rising ? Clarkson’s payout (soft cap) Kennett’s exit, etc etc
Many hawks supporters have known only the good times.
But in rebuild, from close to the bottom looking up, it’s a long way to the top if you wanna rock “n” roll …

 

[VinnieB]

Results against top 8 teams in order.
1st Melbourne lost by 10. (this was without our best forward in Lewis aswell as the main out).
2nd Geelong won by 12.
3rd Brisbane won by 5.
4th Fremantle lost by 13. (Again without our best forward in Lewis, aswell as Gunston, had a few injuries in an away game.)
5th Carlton lost by 1.
6th Collingwood lost by 4.
7th Richmond lost by 23.
8th Sydney lost by 41, lead half way through the last quarter and most of the game, ran out of legs.

Not bad for a young side with a new coach in his first year playing an aggressive game style, while most sides early on in rebuilds try to minimise damage.

what about:

St Kilda lost by 69 points
Essendon lost by 27 points
Suns lost by 67 points
Dogs lost by 42 points
GWS lost by 22 points

In the end it means absolutely nothing how much you lose by against the top 8 teams.
You seem to make a lot of excuses "..we ran out of legs..." or "...Lewis was out...".

I can only comment on the Collingwood game and we had 65-40 inside 50s. Our forward line just wasn't functioning. But that's 50% more and so maybe we should have won by 10 goals? I'm sure other clubs could say the same.

We were up by 6 goals against Geelong and ran out of legs in the last quarter when they booted 7 goals. We lost against West Coast. We have a very young forward line and a new coach learning a new game style, playing aggressive football. See, every club can find reasons why they lose games.

But what is most concerning is a % of under 85%. I think the Hawks have underperformed this year. A solid backline, and a strong forward line with Lewis, Gunston, Breust and Moore. Obviously the midfield needs an complete overhaul.

 

[Vindicater]

So, like 2017. 2019 and 2021?

People get way too hung up on winning games vs top 8 sides and/or winning games in the back half of the season. My team is hot garbage and if win the next few we'll still be hot garbage.

It's Dominic.

The Hawks could lose by 100 and he would make it out to be a good thing

 

[QuietB]

I would also say that Butler and MacDonald look to be astute picks. Both will be players.

Then you have Reeves, Newcombe, CJ as rookies.
Lynch traded in for nothing.
Blanck and Ramsden.

Other than the Wingard trade I don't think the Hawks have put a foot wrong.

Their success with speculative picks is easily the best in the AFL. That means they either have the best recruiting structure, the best development structure and maybe both.

The premise of this thread is ridiculous.