Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Pessimistic]

We have no KPD and are playing a 20 year old in the ruck and a 19 year old at chf who hasnt played before. Look at our stats we monster everyone's mids every week. We weren't converting our dominance and missing easy shots. We would be 1 or 2 in the league for mids

And you are criticizing hawthorns list management? Ok fair enough but are you doing as much posting about the doggies?

 

[Pessimistic]

We won a flag in 16...

Our list is better than yours. Put a poll up on the main page between hawks and the dogs hell even carlton and see who neutrals would choose going forward. Guarantee it wouldn't be the hawks. You arent the same team without the past champions of the club

We wouldnt have won many bigfooty polls in 09-11 either. The mean jack shit

Didnt plough and rocket say they chose richmond and bulldogs over hawthorn to coach because the lists were more advanced? How did that work out?

 

[Timo pez]

What’s a Western Bulldogs supporter with a midfield of Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Hunter, Libba, Wallis, Smith and Lipinski have to be jealous about?

And last time I checked Cogs was still contracted to GWS. Why would he want to go Hawthorn over a Carlton who are on the verge of contending again. With one of the best young lists in the game?

Some of those guys you probably shouldn't bother mentioning....Shiels is better than some of them and he was mentioned

 

[Pessimistic]

Thanks for taking the time to read the article Carl. The really interesting part is, despite body evidence, none of the NFL manager took the evidence on board. I.e. they continued the practice of trying to accumulate early picks. For more on the subject, you can listen to the podcast This American Life 2016 edition. Titled: The Wrong Decision.

Successful people need losers to feed off. Exhibit one mcevoy and st kilda

 

[parsons nose]

We won a flag in 16...

Our list is better than yours. Put a poll up on the main page between hawks and the dogs hell even carlton and see who neutrals would choose going forward. Guarantee it wouldn't be the hawks. You arent the same team without the past champions of the club

Actually, that fills me with hope. Thanks.

 

[its free real estate]

Financial pressures might be a factor, with the considerable cost of developing Dingley. Kennett spoke against their financially-unfriendly fixture during the year.

Committing to the draft means at least three years out of contention. Maybe they simply can't afford it?

Plenty of little old ladies they can extort money out of through their pokies operation.

 

[Whiskers]

Clarko outcoached by a rookie.
Had no answers.

Oh sorry this was a loss, we only talk about his masterful coaching performances, my bad.

 

[TonaldDrump]

Hawks got outplayed by a crap team and a first time coach.

Future not looking too bright.

 

[WWSD]

Hmmm yeah it’s not those players they have to worry about

Smith will be traded, while Birchall and Puopolo will both retire. I’d expect the following changes to occur in the off-season which will significantly bring down the Hawks average age.

Roughead - retire
Birchall - retire
Smith - traded
Ceglar - traded
Schoenmakers - retire
Puopolo - retire
Brand - delisted
Mirra - delisted
Minchington - delisted
Mohr - retire
Miles - delisted

 

[WWSD]

You guys will be come a glorified North Melbourne. Brought in enough talent in free agency to remain out of bottom 4. Not nearly enough to be competitive in finals. Just treading above water like North have done so for the last few years. Coniglio would have to have rocks in his head if he thinks playing for Hawthorn is guaranteed success.

How’s the inconsistent Naughton boy going? Lewis is averaging more contested marks and goals per game despite playing less games!

 

[WWSD]

Hawks got outplayed by a crap team and a first time coach.

Future not looking too bright.

Says the guy who supports a team that still haven’t won a final in 15 years.

 

[Kram]

Financial pressures might be a factor, with the considerable cost of developing Dingley. Kennett spoke against their financially-unfriendly fixture during the year.

Committing to the draft means at least three years out of contention. Maybe they simply can't afford it?

Definitely an issue, their supporters are notorious for being massive bandwaggoners and will evaporate with just a few lean years.

 

[footyfan1978]

Hawks got outplayed by a crap team and a first time coach.

Future not looking too bright.

Wash your mouth out with soap and stop pretending it is not so bright for them.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

We won a flag in 16...

Our list is better than yours. Put a poll up on the main page between hawks and the dogs hell even carlton and see who neutrals would choose going forward. Guarantee it wouldn't be the hawks. You arent the same team without the past champions of the club

Our current forward line, backline and ruck are all better than yours. With the introduction of Mitchell and hopefully cogs our mids would be at least on par with yours. But you keep believing.

 

[Firestarter]

Hawks got outplayed by a crap team and a first time coach.

Future not looking too bright.

I think Shaw is at least a 10-time coach now. You meatheaded pillock.

And unlike the situation with whoever the hell your caretaker was Scott was actually gone, not hiding in France.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Wash your mouth out with soap and stop pretending it is not so bright for them.

I've been hearing about this bright future for Carlton for the last 10 years. Appears no amount of top 10 drsft picks can overcome a loser mentality.

 

[footyfan1978]

I've been hearing about this bright future for Carlton for the last 10 years.

We were talking about Hawks, stop avoiding looking into your very bright future.. Some shades will help you.

 

[WWSD]

Wash your mouth out with soap and stop pretending it is not so bright for them.

What do you think of Mitchell Lewis? The last player taken in the 2016 draft.

1st in the AFL in contested marks!

 

[its free real estate]

Smith will be traded, while Birchall and Puopolo will both retire. I’d expect the following changes to occur in the off-season which will significantly bring down the Hawks average age.

Roughead - retire
Birchall - retire
Smith - traded
Ceglar - traded
Schoenmakers - retire
Puopolo - retire
Brand - delisted
Mirra - delisted
Minchington - delisted
Mohr - retire
Miles - delisted

That’s massive list turnover. Can’t imagine there have been too many clubs that have turned over that many players in one season and remained competitive

 

[footyfan1978]

What do you think of Mitchell Lewis? The last player taken in the 2016 draft.

1st in the AFL in contested marks!

I only seen a little of him but to me he looks like he will be a good key forward on recent results.

 

[WWSD]

That’s massive list turnover. Can’t imagine there have been too many clubs that have turned over that many players in one season and remained competitive

You have to do what’s necessary. None of those players have any improvement left, and the only way up for Hawthorn is to hit the draft hard.

One area the Hawks are good at is player development which is why they should go back to the draft this year to start the rebuild process.

 

[Wesley2]

That’s massive list turnover. Can’t imagine there have been too many clubs that have turned over that many players in one season and remained competitive

Come on don't be dramatic, four of them (including Rough & Ceglar) have consistently been in our best 22 this year.

 

[carnthedons]

What do you think of Mitchell Lewis? The last player taken in the 2016 draft.

1st in the AFL in contested marks!

Presume you’re talking averages and reckon S McKernan has him covered which is saying something

M Taberner too but only 9 games

2019 AFL League Contested Marks Per Game Leaders

2019 AFL League Contested Marks Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

 

[Ron The Bear]

That’s massive list turnover. Can’t imagine there have been too many clubs that have turned over that many players in one season and remained competitive

It's not so much the number of players but the ~1250 games of experience. Richmond lost 1300+ games at the end of 2009, but Hawthorn will still have nine 150-gamers to carry the day.

 

[MightyHawks]

Not impossible. Carlton renovated an old team post-1984 to win in 1987. Pre-salary cap days of course.

Obviously Clarko deserves tremendous respect, but he's not a magician. Box Hill is only mid-table in the VFL so I take it there are no unseen superstars in waiting.

Just reckon there are plenty of more appealing destinations than Hawthorn ATM. But if they can attract the substantial quality they need then good luck to them. It would be a victory for marketing over substance IMO.

I see the Hawks as being in a similar position to Adelaide. The major difference is the coach's reputation, and the respect accorded to multi-premiership players, e.g. speculation surrounds Betts while Puopolo boots three goals in 14 games. The Hawks have been given a cosy run by the media, and perhaps they deserve it.

I just think that free agency / trading / drafting / recruiting is completely different to how it was in the past. So there are more list strategies that could be undertaken

In 10-20 years time we'll better be able to evaluate the current strategies

But again Hawthorn doesn't need to actually win a premiership for the list management strategy to have been correct

You need a lot to go right in a season to win the premiership, your list management can only put you in a position to be able to win a premiership