Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Dede]

Dont think Smith will move

And Impey is a huge loss.I dont think he's been our "Best" player however he's had his absolute best year and that year when players go from good to elite, Earlier in the season when our forwardline Cohesion was suffering he went up forward and helped spark some good inside 50 movements as a high forward. Scrimshaw who was huge for us went down and he went back as that general role of dictating the play and movement and we looked great as well.

Absolute loss but i think Scrimshaw should grow next year and we can cover the Impey loss. Hurts however and you know he's the type of player coaches love, That level headed guy who can go plug a hole anywhere you need and go a good job at.

Down playing impey impact imo.he was the link up man to change the tempo of attack which clarko needs in his game plan...

On Henderson great first 10 weeks then dropped off a tad that's why I thought impey was the best player this year for you guys ..

And lastly on scrimshaw the guy played 3 good games then dropped off a cliff in form. (Knee) I'm on record saying he is no good and a mummas boy but we shall see

 

[Vindicater]

Oh noes we're on average 0.8% older then the current premiers, time to cut 40% of our list and play the youth!

fu** man, May as well post a list that we carry a fair amount of Ranga's and as such we are disadvantaged at Perth due to the sunnier climate.

Big difference between an old team winning and an old team losing.

 

[Gralin]

Big difference between an old team winning and an old team losing.

4 points on average

 

[Hawker55]

I've always hated average age as a barometer of anything because there are too many variables to make it point to anything other than there may be a few old players on a list (or conversely a few young ones). It's a lazy stat used by idiot journos who don't actually think through what the stat means.

 

[Vindicater]

4 points on average

Very clever.

4 points in any one game.

20 points over the length of the season.

 

[Gralin]

Very clever.

4 points in any one game.

20 points over the length of the season.

I'd love to know how you arrived at 20 pts

 

[hawkman]

I'd love to know how you arrived at 20 pts

I'm guessing it meant what the ladder shows right now

 

[Gralin]

I'm guessing it meant what the ladder shows right now

Let him answer for himself, I really want to see how he attributes 5 losses directly to our players age

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Let him answer for himself, I really want to see how he attributes 5 losses directly to our players age

What is it then? A talent issue? A coaching problem?

 

[Cadillac]

Surely big name free agents and out of contract players are starting to realise that going to Hawthorn may not be the best career move.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Surely big name free agents and out of contract players are starting to realise that going to Hawthorn may not be the best career move.

Hard to get a FA when the bidding wars begin so far its only Frawley despite the urban myth

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawks have a poor list, and its only that Clarko is a great coach that they are doing so well.

Bur Clarkos also a poor coach cos hes over-rating the list?

 

[Gralin]

What is it then? A talent issue? A coaching problem?

Like I said, Vinnie made the comment, I'm keen to read the explanation.

I have my views on the losses, the reasons are not all the same but there is a lot of overlap, too many old blokes isn't on the list though.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Let him answer for himself, I really want to see how he attributes 5 losses directly to our players age

 

[Vindicater]

I'd love to know how you arrived at 20 pts

Discussion was about age of premiership teams being high.

I said old age is good When you are winning and bad when you are losing.

This year eagles are on 52 points. (Current premiers)

Hawthorn are on 32 points. (As the bad team in comparison)

Simple

 

[Cadillac]

The dogs have the discarded Duryea in better form than Impey (before his ACL). And also have Sam Lloyd in better form than Wingard who you gave up a ton in a trade to get.

Imagine what kind of footy those two would have been playing for the Bulldogs if they’d chosen us. I don’t think out of contract players would be making that mistake again.

 

[Vindicater]

Like I said, Vinnie made the comment, I'm keen to read the explanation.

I have my views on the losses, the reasons are not all the same but there is a lot of overlap, too many old blokes isn't on the list though.

To add on. Age is not the sole reason you are losing but being an old middle of the road team is not ideal. Means you are stuck in no man's land.

Some players ready to compete at the pointy end in a season or two but by that time other guys have lost the ability to compete at the same level.

Then you get stuck in the cycle of replacing players instead of adding players.

That works until injuries hit you.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

The dogs have the discarded Duryea in better form than Impey (before his ACL). And also have Sam Lloyd in better form than Wingard who you gave up a ton in a trade to get.

Imagine what kind of footy those two would have been playing for the Bulldogs if they’d chosen us. I don’t think out of contract players would be making that mistake again.

Good call. If I had the choice, I'd definitely go to WB now. They look a helluva lot better in the short and long term.

 

[Gralin]

To add on. Age is not the sole reason you are losing but being an old middle of the road team is not ideal. Means you are stuck in no man's land.

Some players ready to compete at the pointy end in a season or two but by that time other guys have lost the ability to compete at the same level.

Then you get stuck in the cycle of replacing players instead of adding players.

That works until injuries hit you.

That's a conversation more worth having that your other one.

From the 33 players we used in 2015, 14 have played games this year.
From the Grand Final 22, 9 are regular contributors now.

Bringing in guys like Mitchell, O'Meara, Wingard, Scully, Henderson has helped keep our average age up, because we didn't have as large an influx of 18 year olds.

Henderson was a great pickup as far as a free hit, possibly brought in more as depth he's played some good footy and while he might only be a transition player, you need those guys.

Burgoyne skews the age of any team he's in, yet he's still performing well enough to play. Replace Silk with a 26 year old and you take almost 6 months off the average age of the named team.

Every team is better without injuries, some teams can cover more injuries and some can cover more key injuries than others.

No doubt our injuries this year have shown our depth to be shallow, in part from options/talent, in part from lack of experience.

The club has turned over a large part of the best 22 in the past 3 years, over half in fact. There will be more turn over this year, our list profile might even go down a little but I expect Burgoyne and a couple of other players around the 30-32 mark to still be there.

I'm interested to see if they can make it work

 

[stfan]

Oh noes we're on average 0.8% older then the current premiers, time to cut 40% of our list and play the youth!

fu** man, May as well post a list that we carry a fair amount of Ranga's and as such we are disadvantaged at Perth due to the sunnier climate.

If age alone was the only factor then you may have a point, but it is not.

There is no point being OLD when the results are trending down. More old players means that a larger % of you list will not improve and that indeed a larger % will actually go backwards.

If you were playing at the earlier output then you would not have the same problem as you would only need to bring in small number of players.

Being old and not being the team you want to be means that you have to bring in a greater number of good players and that you are not doing.

That the shelf life of so many has been reached, or has almost been reached, means that the result trend is likely to keep heading south.

 

[Furn2]

If age alone was the only factor then you may have a point, but it is not.

There is no point being OLD when the results are trending down. More old players means that a larger % of you list will not improve and that indeed a larger % will actually go backwards.

If you were playing at the earlier output then you would not have the same problem as you would only need to bring in small number of players.

Being old and not being the team you want to be means that you have to bring in a greater number of good players and that you are not doing.

That the shelf life of so many has been reached, or has almost been reached, means that the result trend is likely to keep heading south.

Thats all based on a myth, statistics show that older lists do better in the future than younger lists.

 

[stfan]

So essentially our lost age is being kept extremely similar to the composition of our three peat. Makes sense to me.

List age yes. List quality no.

 

[stfan]

Thats all based on a myth, statistics show that older lists do better in the future than younger lists.

1/ If you do not factor in quality. Teams normally don't try and hang onto too many players who are at the end.

2/ Keep all your older players then next season and see how you get on.

 

[Leeda]

'Requisition my hierarchy.? Send me to the bottom of the ocean...' Crash my future?.
Player....

 

[Ron The Bear]

Club	Avg Age	Avg Gms	Avg Gls	Avg Hgt	Avg Wgt
Haw	27.08	140.1	99.6	187.7	86.7
Adel	26.82	131.6	91.4	186.5	86.3
Coll	26.71	118.2	74.8	187.7	87.5
Geel	26.47	126.2	96.9	188.4	89.5
W.C.	26.16	124.4	83.4	187.9	87.2
N.M.	25.76	104.4	58.8	189.1	88.1
P.A.	25.70	108.5	73.1	188.2	84.8
Rich	25.61	109.6	89.1	185.5	85.5
GWS	25.46	90.0	36.0	189.9	88.8
Bris	25.32	102.4	62.8	187.7	88.8
Ess	24.96	81.0	48.5	186.1	86.0
Carl	24.86	84.7	43.0	188.5	86.0
Melb	24.68	88.9	37.7	188.1	88.0
W.B.	24.60	88.7	46.7	187.3	84.9
Frem	24.41	81.8	45.4	186.8	87.8
G.C.	24.33	83.3	38.1	187.6	85.9
St.K	24.04	67.8	40.0	188.1	85.9
Syd	24.00	79.3	53.2	186.9	84.8

(finalised for Sunday)