Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Vindicater]

That's a conversation more worth having that your other one.

From the 33 players we used in 2015, 14 have played games this year.
From the Grand Final 22, 9 are regular contributors now.

Bringing in guys like Mitchell, O'Meara, Wingard, Scully, Henderson has helped keep our average age up, because we didn't have as large an influx of 18 year olds.

Henderson was a great pickup as far as a free hit, possibly brought in more as depth he's played some good footy and while he might only be a transition player, you need those guys.

Burgoyne skews the age of any team he's in, yet he's still performing well enough to play. Replace Silk with a 26 year old and you take almost 6 months off the average age of the named team.

Every team is better without injuries, some teams can cover more injuries and some can cover more key injuries than others.

No doubt our injuries this year have shown our depth to be shallow, in part from options/talent, in part from lack of experience.

The club has turned over a large part of the best 22 in the past 3 years, over half in fact. There will be more turn over this year, our list profile might even go down a little but I expect Burgoyne and a couple of other players around the 30-32 mark to still be there.

I'm interested to see if they can make it work

I am interested as well.

To me it all depends on if you can pull a top tier free agent (like Cogs) through the door.

If you can't you will continue to bleed future assets to stay relevant.

A free agent however comes free (fancy that) in regards to assets.

 

[TylerDurden]

I am interested as well.

To me it all depends on if you can pull a top tier free agent (like Cogs) through the door.

If you can't you will continue to bleed future assets to stay relevant.

A free agent however comes free (fancy that) in regards to assets.

To be fair, we don't see them as assets as we don't rate the picks, clearly. The only thing stopping us doing it every year is the AFL rules. Clarko would burn the boats if he could.

 

[its free real estate]

Half of Hawthorn’s best 22 is 28+. Eight players are over 30. That’s a group that is going to retire en masse in the next two-three years. How does Hawthorn improve while replacing half the side?

 

[Pessimistic]

Half of Hawthorn’s best 22 is 28+. Eight players are over 30. That’s a group that is going to retire en masse in the next two-three years. How does Hawthorn improve while replacing half the side?

1-2 trades in and 1-2 draftees each year

 

[its free real estate]

1-2 trades in and 1-2 draftees each year

Isn't this your strategy now, and you've gotten worse?

 

[Pessimistic]

Isn't this your strategy now, and you've gotten worse?

Lucky we don’t have to replace a player we really rely on like........nat fyfe 28 in september

At the other end that afl listing says hawks have 19 players under 23 similar numbers to freo and more than many clubs. And due to the age profile theyll get a chance sooner than most clubs (not denying the age profile by the way)

 

[its free real estate]

Lucky we don’t have to replace a player we really rely on like........nat fyfe 28 in september

We have much bigger problems than how old Fyfe is.

Don't worry, Hawthorn won't finish last. We'll be down there to hold you up and give you your regular yearly phone-it-in win. But you'll still be shit for the foreseeable future.

 

[Gralin]

Half of Hawthorn’s best 22 is 28+. Eight players are over 30. That’s a group that is going to retire en masse in the next two-three years. How does Hawthorn improve while replacing half the side?

Ah yes better make it 28+ so you can count the 4 blokes who turned 28 this year because everyone knows you never play good footy once you're 28.......

 

[Pessimistic]

Point is no one is saying fyfe is close to the end. They certainly would be if he was at Hawthorn

 

[its free real estate]

Ah yes better make it 28+ so you can count the 4 blokes who turned 28 this year because everyone knows you never play good footy once you're 28.......

It's a rolling list. By the time you replace the blokes currently 30+ (6 players), you'll have another bracket of 5 that are 30+, leaving you in a state of list churn where too many players are leaving the club, while being replaced by mostly 18 year olds.

Or stars like Impey, Scully, Wingard and O'Meara who shoot you up the ladder.

 

[its free real estate]

Point is no one is saying fyfe is close to the end. They certainly would be if he was at Hawthorn

Strong disagree - read the Freo board, every Freo fan thinks that by the time we are good again, the peak of Fyfe's career will be well over (if he is even still playing).

 

[Gralin]

It's a rolling list. By the time you replace the blokes currently 30+ (6 players), you'll have another bracket of 5 that are 30+, leaving you in a state of list churn where too many players are leaving the club, while being replaced by mostly 18 year olds.

Or stars like Impey, Scully, Wingard and O'Meara who shoot you up the ladder.

We've got 9 guys from our 2015 best 22 playing regular games right now
We've turned over half the list and most of it was after 2016.

We had guys over 30 playing during our flags, 30 doesn't mean you can't be a good footballer.

 

[its free real estate]

We've turned over half the list and most of it was after 2016.

Yeah, and you got worse. Went from being dangerous and successful in finals from 2011-2015, to straights sets and missing them 2016-*.

Now you have to face turning over another half of the list in the same space. Will you get better? No.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Strong disagree - read the Freo board, every Freo fan thinks that by the time we are good again, the peak of Fyfe's career will be well over (if he is even still playing).

We have much bigger problems than how old Fyfe is.

Don't worry, Hawthorn won't finish last. We'll be down there to hold you up and give you your regular yearly phone-it-in win. But you'll still be s**t for the foreseeable future.

Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one,
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun,
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood;
For nothing now can ever come to any good.

 

[its free real estate]

Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one,
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun,
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood;
For nothing now can ever come to any good.

I have gazed into the abyss, and the abyss gazed into me, and it was wearing brown and gold and saying "we're not old, we'll get Cogs and Patton, you'll see".

 

[Gralin]

Yeah, and you got worse. Went from being dangerous and successful in finals from 2011-2015, to straights sets and missing them 2016-*.

Now you have to face turning over another half of the list in the same space. Will you get better? No.

And if we'd replaced all those players with draft picks instead of a mixture of picks and more established players we'd have fallen further than we did.
You have no idea whether we will get better or not you're taking about the future like it's written

 

[Gralin]

I have gazed into the abyss, and the abyss gazed into me, and it was wearing brown and gold and saying "we're not old, we'll get Cogs and Patton, you'll see".

I'll turn the light on next time

 

[FairKouta]

Do all Hawks fans on this thread think that they are still a chance at the silverware without bottoming out for a few years to stock up on draft picks ?
Is this current group plus coniglio/patton/Jenkins or however they get enough to win a premiership with the likes of Brisbane Richmond Gws West coast still relatively young and in the window for the next few years ?

 

[QuietB]

Do all Hawks fans on this thread think that they are still a chance at the silverware without bottoming out for a few years to stock up on draft picks ?
Is this current group plus coniglio/patton/Jenkins or however they get enough to win a premiership with the likes of Brisbane Richmond Gws West coast still relatively young and in the window for the next few years ?

Hawks are 3/4 superstars away. It is elite talent that is missing.

But not all elite talent comes from top 3 picks.

And the Hawks have not had access to anything like a top 3 pick for a very long time.

 

[Gralin]

Do all Hawks fans on this thread think that they are still a chance at the silverware without bottoming out for a few years to stock up on draft picks ?
Is this current group plus coniglio/patton/Jenkins or however they get enough to win a premiership with the likes of Brisbane Richmond Gws West coast still relatively young and in the window for the next few years ?

Define bottoming out

 

[Pessimistic]

We've got 9 guys from our 2015 best 22 playing regular games right now
We've turned over half the list and most of it was after 2016.

We had guys over 30 playing during our flags, 30 doesn't mean you can't be a good footballer.

And the 13 replacements have come 50:50 from trade ins and developed draftees

Thats what happened 2009-2015, except the starting point list averaged young, but not may of the 2009 best 22 remained in 2015
About 9

 

[FairKouta]

Define bottoming out

Not making finals and getting early draft picks.
Clarko too good a coach to have the hawks bottom 4.

 

[Pessimistic]

Do all Hawks fans on this thread think that they are still a chance at the silverware without bottoming out for a few years to stock up on draft picks ?
Is this current group plus coniglio/patton/Jenkins or however they get enough to win a premiership with the likes of Brisbane Richmond Gws West coast still relatively young and in the window for the next few years ?

Looking at the list they have a similar number of under 23s to those teams

Funny though, early in this thread, Melbourne FC was in the list of clubs in similar posts who would be better than us. I wonder what happened?

Its all opinion thats what happened

 

[FairKouta]

Hawks are 3/4 superstars away. It is elite talent that is missing.

But not all elite talent comes from top 3 picks.

And the Hawks have not had access to anything like a top 3 pick for a very long time.

Most of your premiership core were early draft picks.
Hodge
Franklin
Roughy
Lewis

 

[FairKouta]

Looking at the list they have a similar number of under 23s to those teams

Right.
But no where near the talent under 23 as the team's I mentioned above