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Captaincy Debate

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MickyCrow

Club Legend
Mar 11, 2007
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Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
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CDFC, Salisbury North FC
http://www.afc.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/4417/Default.aspx?newsId=52989

From AFC.com

Rise of the rookies

2:12 PM Fri 2 November, 2007 | Back
By Katrina Gill
for afc.com.au



News


TWELVE YEARS ago, missing out on selection at the NAB AFL Draft meant a year-long wait for a young footballer still determined to pursue his dream of playing in the AFL.
The Pre-Season Draft opened a window for a lucky few, but with the majority of December picks traditionally used to claim recycled players; the unsuccessful nominees faced another season at local level before they could put their name forward again for selection.
In 1997 the AFL came up with a new innovation, which allowed a club to supplement its senior playing list with up to six (nine for Sydney and Brisbane) 'rookies' aged between 18 and 23.
A club is also allowed to place one player over the age of 23 on its rookie list providing that player hasn't previously been listed with an AFL team.
Despite its relatively short existence, the NAB AFL Rookie Draft has already proved successful for many AFL clubs, with big names Dean Cox, Aaron Sandilands, Aaron Davey, Tahdg Kennelly, Russell Robertson and Danyle Pearce all products of the system.
Adelaide has been particularly successful in the NAB AFL Rookie Draft, with captain-in-waiting Ben Rutten, Nathan Bock, Rob Shirley, Jason Porplyzia and Michael Doughty all coming to the club via the club's rookie list.
All-Australian defender Nathan Bassett also began his career as a rookie when he was picked up by Melbourne with the third-ever Rookie Draft in 1997.
In fact, eight players who took the field for the Crows in 2007 originated from rookie lists.
Crows recruiting manager Matt Rendell said the NAB AFL Rookie Draft had been an "excellent innovation".
"There have been some good players to come out of the rookie draft," he said.
"Adelaide has picked up a few, West Coast and Melbourne are very strong in the rookie list, too."
Rutten, who captained South Australia in the U18 Championships one year after having a full-knee reconstruction, was overlooked by all 16 clubs in the 2001 National Draft, but was rookie-listed by Adelaide that same year.
"I suppose the national draft was a pretty disappointing time for me, but I got called up by the Crows not long after to ask if I wanted to train for the rookie list, so that was a bit of a consolation," Rutten said.
Rutten was elevated to the senior list at the end of 2002 and after kicking three goals with his first three kicks in AFL, he quickly established himself at the other end of the ground and was selected at full-back in 2005 All-Australian team.
Also elevated to Adelaide's senior list in 2002 were centre half-back Nathan Bock and 98-gamer Marty Mattner, who was recently traded to the Swans.
"We've had a bit of success with our rookies over the last five or six years," Rutten said.
"A lot of guys on our list started out as rookies, which goes to show that it's not the be-all and end-all to be drafted as a 17-year-old. There are other ways to play AFL footy."
Shirley notched up his 100th game milestone this season and two other former rookies, Jon Griffin and Jason Porplyzia, both had career-best years.
Bock, who reached his 50 game milestone, believes the rookie system was coming along nicely at West Lakes.
"The rookie list eases the young guys into the AFL system," Bock said.
"They get a feel for AFL and the effort that's required and if their form warrants it, they have the opportunity to be elevated the following year."
North Adelaide defender Greg Gallman is the latest rookie to be elevated to the senior list and the club is hopeful the promising 18-year-old can continue the Crows' successful tradition.


Do we now just wait for the official announcement?

Pretty happy with this call if this is how the club goes


I also think its safe to say he is staying :thumbsu::rolleyes:




 
Re: Is this a hint?

I hate be picky but Shirley never was a rookie listed player.

We got him in the national draft with a late pick. Then delisted him in 2002 only to pick him up again in the national draft and add him to our main list.

As for the captaincy, it will be interesting to see which option the team takes. Every move coming out of west lakes so far is based on giving youth a crack and going younger. Maybe that also includes Rutten getting the captaincy.

I still think Goodwin for two years and then pass it on to vB is the best option.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

On the Rutten thing:

Am I the only one convinced that he's already re-signed but the club did not make a big song and dance about it and the media did not bother reporting it?

Because surely if there was any whisper he was unhappy in this season where horse racing is the most fun for the journos to cover a player of the magnitude of Truck would command at least a few of them on his tail?
 

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Re: Is this a hint?

On the Rutten thing:

Am I the only one convinced that he's already re-signed but the club did not make a big song and dance about it and the media did not bother reporting it?

Because surely if there was any whisper he was unhappy in this season where horse racing is the most fun for the journos to cover a player of the magnitude of Truck would command at least a few of them on his tail?

I'm with you. Rucci would have had a field day with it, but he hasn't said a word from what I've read.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

On the Rutten thing:

Am I the only one convinced that he's already re-signed but the club did not make a big song and dance about it and the media did not bother reporting it?

Because surely if there was any whisper he was unhappy in this season where horse racing is the most fun for the journos to cover a player of the magnitude of Truck would command at least a few of them on his tail?

Maybe the club is going to annouce the new contract the same day they decide to name the new captain. Why annouce he has resigned now if they are going to make another annoucement in a few weeks. ;)
 
Re: Is this a hint?

On the Rutten thing:

Am I the only one convinced that he's already re-signed but the club did not make a big song and dance about it and the media did not bother reporting it?

Because surely if there was any whisper he was unhappy in this season where horse racing is the most fun for the journos to cover a player of the magnitude of Truck would command at least a few of them on his tail?

You be correct in saying that Rutten has already re-signed. The fact that little has been mentioned in the press suggests there is no dramas & he will be at AFC in 2008.

Still undecided as to who would make the best captain to take over from Roo. I would like to see Rutten at least vice-captain, given he should be part of our long-term leadership.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

captain-in-waiting Ben Rutten

I was actually thinking he'd be up against it because not many full backs get to be a club captain at the highest level.

However I did a bit of a search and found a few full backs & back pockets who were captains, Dench, Langford, Ayres, Frawley, Graham & Lynch.

Less at SANFL level though, Beswick, Hammond, Lee & Rogers.

I only went over the past 30 - 40 years, did I miss any?
 
Re: Is this a hint?

I was actually thinking he'd be up against it because not many full backs get to be a club captain at the highest level.

However I did a bit of a search and found a few full backs & back pockets who were captains, Dench, Langford, Ayres, Frawley, Graham & Lynch.

Less at SANFL level though, Beswick, Hammond, Lee & Rogers.

I only went over the past 30 - 40 years, did I miss any?

Didn’t Steven Silvani captain Carlton (as a full back) or a year after Steven Kernahan?

Edit: Na it was Craig Bradley
 
Re: Is this a hint?

Goodwin being captain is just so hypocritical and honestly I think would be a pathetic move.

Who cares where the captain plays? We have a leadership group for that very purpose. The captain can't be everywhere at once. It should be a role that is given on merit, not position. Rutten is the most important player in our side over the next 5+ years and has shown all the qualities we should look for in a leader.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

I don't think Goodwin as a Captain would be such a bad idea, it would allow players such as Rutten, van Berlo, Thompson or Reilly to get a few more games under their belt and to perhaps serve an apprentiship as members of the leadership group, and after 2 years we would have a much better idea of who would be the best choice as a long term captain, at the moment we havn't had a bad captain, they have all been top-class. I'm sure they won't but would hate to see the crows rush into the appointment and get it wrong, whilst it may be too early to tell, but it looks like the Redbacks may have just done that.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

Goodwin being captain is just so hypocritical and honestly I think would be a pathetic move.

Who cares where the captain plays? We have a leadership group for that very purpose. The captain can't be everywhere at once. It should be a role that is given on merit, not position. Rutten is the most important player in our side over the next 5+ years and has shown all the qualities we should look for in a leader.

Why?! Because he is not in a certain age group?! :rolleyes:

Fact is that Goodwin is the one best qualified to be our captain now and he did a pretty fine job this year standing in for Roo afters a pre-season of controversy.

Fact is that players choose the leaders and their captain and that is absolutely the way it should be because they need someone that they feel they can look up to and follow. People will point to his gambling incident but even after that, the players still saw Goodwin as the right person to lead them.

Some will suggest that the coach should choose the captain and that would be hypocritical. Once you are committed to a certain leadership model and you have gone a long way down the path of following that model, and its been working well for you, it would be hypocritical to change just so some can be satisfied with a young captain.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

Goodwin being captain is just so hypocritical and honestly I think would be a pathetic move.

Why, and you haven't explained your reason for saying so?
I get the impression it's the age thing popping up again. :mad:

You have to earn to play in the team, you have to earn the players respect to get into the leadership group and you have to earn big time in this team to become a club captain.

From where I sit, Goody ticks all the boxes to be the next club captain for the next two years. Who ever is his deputy, should be the captain in waiting.

The only reason he should not be our next captain is if he doesn't want it. Simple as that.
 

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Re: Is this a hint?

Why?! Because he is not in a certain age group?! :rolleyes:

People will point to his gambling incident but even after that, the players still saw Goodwin as the right person to lead them.

Yes - the Club has taken a hard line with Torney and players over 30 and I think it would fly in the face of that to make Goodwin Captain. We need to develop our leaders as well as our players.

With, the gambling incident and the photographer incident, Goodwin has shown very poor judgment off the field and in my view should not be captain for that reason.

The CLub should set very high standrads for its captain and IMO Goodwin doesn't reach the required level no matter how good a player he is.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

Yes - the Club has taken a hard line with Torney and players over 30 and I think it would fly in the face of that to make Goodwin Captain. We need to develop our leaders as well as our players.

With, the gambling incident and the photographer incident, Goodwin has shown very poor judgment off the field and in my view should not be captain for that reason.

The CLub should set very high standrads for its captain and IMO Goodwin doesn't reach the required level no matter how good a player he is.
And if we are to go over Roo's career, I am sure we could have picked incidents where he showed poor judgment and acted inappropriately!

Goodwin has obviously earnt the respect of his peers, thats why he was appointed as deputy to Roo this year. So in their eyes, the players see him as a leader they look up to and someone they want to be led by! That is a HUGE endorsment for Goodwin.

Age really shouldn't come into it what so ever. If you are basing your view on delisting of Torney, then Roo should have stepped aside for someone younger at the end of 2006.

Players do and should choose their leader because they are the ones that will follow him. Not the coaches, not the administrator and not the members but players themselves. If players feel that Goodwin is their true leader then thats good enough for me.

He might have had some incidents in the past where he has shown poor judgment but I am pretty sure that all of our captains have done something they are not proud off at some stage during their careers.

IMHO, Goodwin ticks just about all the boxes you are looking for in a captain. He leads by example on the field, his players look up to him and he presents well in the media. Next year would be a chance for him to step out of Roo's shadow and be a true leader of this club and I am sure he will thrive with the added responsibility.

I agree with Markthirtytwo's idea of appointing Goodwin as the captain for the next 2 years and have the rest of the leadership group made up of younger hopefuls like Rutten, Thompson, van Berlo and Reilly and the next captain comes out of that group in a couple of years time.

You don't manufacture leaders. They are born with that talent that gets developed. You either have true leadership ability or not. Goodwin has it and shouldn't be punished for it just because he is certain age.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

Why would Jason Torneys exit have anything to do with the captaincy?

Completely seperate issues IMO.

Torney was flicked because of the age of the list, and the need to inject more youth. This has nothing to do with the captaincy at all.

IMO, the captaincy should always be with the best person for the job at the time. Its appointed each and every year based on that criteria, for that year only. It has nothing to do with Torney or his exit from the playing list.

IMO, Goodwin, McLeod or Edwards are the most qualified to lead our club ATM. The others, like Rutten, Thompson and VB will one day be the most qualified but ATM they dont tick all the boxes.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

Why would Jason Torneys exit have anything to do with the captaincy?

Completely seperate issues IMO.

Torney was flicked because of the age of the list, and the need to inject more youth. This has nothing to do with the captaincy at all.

IMO, the captaincy should always be with the best person for the job at the time. Its appointed each and every year based on that criteria, for that year only. It has nothing to do with Torney or his exit from the playing list.

IMO, Goodwin, McLeod or Edwards are the most qualified to lead our club ATM. The others, like Rutten, Thompson and VB will one day be the most qualified but ATM they dont tick all the boxes.

On that basis we could ahve three new captains in three years depding on who retires when

Age has got to do with it if we are pursuing a policy of refreshing our list and looking to the future.

I would prefer a long term captaincy option now if there is someone good enough which I believe there is.
 
IMO you select from the leadership group your captain depending on the team circumstances.

With the team in a rebuilding phase we are likely in the next couple of years to experience some ups and downs associated with blooding a lot of young players.

During this period it is my opinion that our leader has to be a mature type who can manage these difficult times and mentor not only the younger players but the younger members of the leadership group (of which there will be).

Goodwin meets these criteria.

It would be terribly difficult on a new captain now ......in 2 years Van Berlo or Rurren or even Reilly will be inheriting a more stable team and that IMO is the correct timing
 
Re: Is this a hint?

On that basis we could ahve three new captains in three years depding on who retires when

Age has got to do with it if we are pursuing a policy of refreshing our list and looking to the future.

I would prefer a long term captaincy option now if there is someone good enough which I believe there is.

I dont think it matters how long, just that we have the best available at the time.

If that means it Goody for a year, then Macca for a year, then Truck for 3, then VB for 2, then so be it. As long as we have the best man available in the job each year.

I just do see having the same captain for a decade is of any real benefit. Nor do I see youthful captain being of any benifit. In fact a young captain would almost certainly be lacking in areas more experienced players have covered.
 

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I believe Rutten ticks most of the boxes as well.

Need to hear more public speaking to make a full comment

I saw Rutten 20 games into his career be the General of the backlines organising players, calling plays etc

Not many 20 gamers have that
 
IMO you select from the leadership group your captain depending on the team circumstances.

With the team in a rebuilding phase we are likely in the next couple of years to experience some ups and downs associated with blooding a lot of young players.

During this period it is my opinion that our leader has to be a mature type who can manage these difficult times and mentor not only the younger players but the younger members of the leadership group (of which there will be).

Goodwin meets these criteria.

It would be terribly difficult on a new captain now ......in 2 years Van Berlo or Rurren or even Reilly will be inheriting a more stable team and that IMO is the correct timing
I'm leaning that way too for the same reasons.

Give Goody the gig for 2 years & give him a few young vice-captains who we think are the most likely candidates for the next captaincy. Gives them time to develop into the role & demostrate their leadership material.
 
Re: Is this a hint?

Torney isnt/wasnt a superstar of the game, '07 was his best year & he hasnt stood out before then so i can understand his 'culling'.

Goodwin for 1-2 years then Rutten/vB afterwards
 
This decision is an absolutely massive one for the club. Who they end up going with will pretty much define our entire 2008 direction:

Is the Hart-Ricciuto-Goodwin-Edwards-McLeod-led era officially over? Or are we going to try to squeeze one more ounce of talent and class from this group of players and have a crack at a flag, with the younger players along for the ride?

Goodwin is the safe, short term option. If he is chosen no one could possibly argue with the decision. He has the respect of the players, is one of the premier players in the competition and has filled the role before, albeit in an acting role. Safe. Sound. Logical... right up the club's alley.

However, if the Crows are to be successful in the next 1-2 years it won't be because of Goodwin, Edwards or McLeod. It will be because the next crop of players have elevated themselves to another level. Thompson is the oldest and most advanced of this 'next crop' and it makes sense to me to hand him the reigns. A bold decision sure enough. A leap into the cold, icy waters of the unknown. The type of decision the club is not noted for in recent times.

Goodwin will be a leader at the club in 2008 whether he has a "c" next to his name or not. And this could be the making of Thompson as a player. "Could" being the operative. Scary word. Scientists don't like it.
 
I'm leaning that way too for the same reasons.

Give Goody the gig for 2 years & give him a few young vice-captains who we think are the most likely candidates for the next captaincy. Gives them time to develop into the role & demostrate their leadership material.

The only sensible decision in my book.
 

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