Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[chopflop]

How are there no bullets in the gun when the SCIENCE (god - we have to listen to "the science") says that younger people are more likely to be hospitalised from the vaccine than the virus?

SARS-CoV-2 mRNA Vaccination-Associated Myocarditis in Children Ages 12-17: A Stratified National Database Analysis

Objectives Establishing the rate of post-vaccination cardiac myocarditis in the 12-15 and 16-17-year-old population in the context of their COVID-19 hospitalization risk is critical for developing a vaccination recommendation framework that balances harms with benefits for this patient...

www.medrxiv.org

Results A total of 257 CAEs were identified. Rates per million following dose 2 among males were 162.2 (ages 12-15) and 94.0 (ages 16-17); among females, rates were 13.0 and 13.4 per million, respectively. For boys 12-15 without medical comorbidities receiving their second mRNA vaccination dose, the rate of CAE is 3.7 to 6.1 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk as of August 21, 2021 (7-day hospitalizations 1.5/100k population) and 2.6-4.3-fold higher at times of high weekly hospitalization risk (7-day hospitalizations 2.1/100k), such as during January 2021. For boys 16-17 without medical comorbidities, the rate of CAE is currently 2.1 to 3.5 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk, and 1.5 to 2.5 times higher at times of high weekly COVID-19 hospitalization.

From the comments on that paper, which is not yet peer-reviewed. Some methodology issues and authors as members of conservative policy advocacy groups. Curious no????

It's like people dressing up turds in labcoats and calling it science.

I have to say this is rather odd way to do BRA. I am not commenting on your observed rates, as others already did. So I will focus on the expected rate side. First, the OE analysis should be based on background rates of myocarditis in the general population. There is an abundance of publicly available data from massive collaborative projects such as OHDSI or ACCESS, so I don't really understand your decision not to compare background rates of myocarditis. But more troubling is the choice of COVID hospitalisations. It's almost a rule of thumb that the expected rates should never be based on a condition that may be influenced by the vaccine in question or, for that matter, any public health/mitigation policies that are contextually related. One could immediately see vaccination could have differential effect on both sides of the comparison: on one side it would drive COVID hospitalisation down, given the potential effect on transmission, and on the other side it could potentially drive myocarditis among vaccinated kids up, if the risk is real. As a result, you will overestimate the risk of myocarditis among the vaccinated. The effect of non-interventional mitigation measures will further decrease the risk of COVID-19 hospitalisation, but without having an effect on the risk of post-vaccination myocarditis, leading to further overestimation of the risk of myocarditis among the vaccinated. Though too obvious, this was apparently overlooked by the US CDC. The OE analysis should also be based on the same conditions and the same risk windows, which is far from what you did here. Thus, the risk of COVID-19 hospitalisations cannot be considered the counterfactual in this analysis.
Last, I think you should have highlighted in the abstract that the risk of COVID hospitalisations among those with comorbidities was actually greater than the risk of myocarditis. Otherwise it's rather misleading.

 

[quotemokc]

Enjoy doing nothing then for the forseeable future

I give it 3 months until people stop caring.

 

[deanc]

Oh dear...this is such a tired argument...

- Wear a seatbelt
- Don't drink and drive
- Drive the speed limit
- Don't take recreational or illicit drugs
- Don't smoke in public areas unless deaignated, or inside public or private areas (besides your home)
- Don't drink in public
- Wash your hands after going to the bathroom if you work in a restaurant - due to salmonella
- Wear clothes in public
- Don't play loud music after a certain time
- Pay your bills
- Have your child vaccinated if you want your child in childcare (this one is a Coalition mandate for all you right-wing anti vaxxers)
- No pissing or shitting in public
- Pay your taxes
- Pay your licenses
- Don't supply alcohol to a minor
- Don't jaywalk
- Don't steal
- Don't assault - sexual or otherwise
- Don't kill

***********************************

All of these things (which are just a very small snapshot of the absolute plethora of rules we all face every day), are examples of restrictions placed on your 'freedoms' each and every day of your life.

These restrictions - otherwise known as mandates or laws - have existed for at least the part decade...yet you people go along with it perfectly willing each and every day.

It seems to be this is the only hill you want to die on, and that this is a 'dictatorship' or a 'curtailing of freedoms' - when really, it's called being a part of civilized society.

If you don't want to be part of society anymore, then go out to the bush and fend for yourself - and leave the rest of us in peace

There is always 'options' in ones life! I'll go out on a limb here - this women does not own/drive a car or use the latest iphone, but she is probably 'fully vaccinated' for many things given her living conditions/environment:

 

[RUNVS]

No they're just going to use emergency powers to make it borderline impossible to live a normal life until you do.

View attachment 1277311

To protect the greater population from your choices.

 

[Jobe Watson]

This thread is awesome. Instead of collectively laughing at a dumbass Carlton player risking his career because he's scared of a vaccine, we instead get to laugh at antivax morons spouting nonsense they read on their auntie's Facebook page. This pandemic has really fried some people's brains.

 

[jdeezy]

Im glad i have that freedom, because the news that mainstream news is NOT telling you, would absolutely make you think twice...

God I love the anti-vax idiot call of "you're only getting it because of THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA" as if there's been no actual scientific basis for believing the vaccine is effective and we're all just blindly doing it because the hosts of The Project told us to do it, but at the same time those same people using the "haha gotcha you can't trust everything you read" response are vehemently against the vaccine because they read a meme online that was shared by Joe Rogan.

 

[Forward Press]

- the right to life and liberty
- freedom from slavery and torture
- freedom of opinion and expression
- freedom to work and education

These are some of our basic human rights as per the United Nations constitution, what they believe is required within a civilised society. Perhaps it’s you who should go fend for yourself in the bush and leave the rest of us in peace.

Not a single one of those rights are abrogated by a vaccine mandate.

You may also want to research this so-called 'United Nations constitution' and their legal effect in Australia.

 

[sherb]

- the right to life and liberty
- freedom from slavery and torture
- freedom of opinion and expression
- freedom to work and education

These are some of our basic human rights as per the United Nations constitution, what they believe is required within a civilised society. Perhaps it’s you who should go fend for yourself in the bush and leave the rest of us in peace.

You forgot "the right to remain healthy during a pandemic".

 

[PTizzle]

The smug aura oozing off every anti-vax post is somewhere between amusing and infuriating - like ignoring science and not wanting to participate in society is somehow cool, intelligent and anti-establishment (when they're really just blindly following another far dumber form of establishment).

As for the Carlton player play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Must have some nice non-AFL career prospects lined up.

 

[KetamineKerr]

Hey do you want to know how easy it is for unvaccinated people to get into any venue they wish forever, do you want me to tell you or would you like to continue believing it would be impossible for unvaccinated to enter venues.

I would like to know


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[The Flying Doormat]

View attachment 1277209

One too many concussions.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Hey do you want to know how easy it is for unvaccinated people to get into any venue they wish forever, do you want me to tell you or would you like to continue believing it would be impossible for unvaccinated to enter venues.

Yes please. How do they get into football games in 2022?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

- the right to life and liberty
- freedom from slavery and torture
- freedom of opinion and expression
- freedom to work and education

These are some of our basic human rights as per the United Nations constitution, what they believe is required within a civilised society. Perhaps it’s you who should go fend for yourself in the bush and leave the rest of us in peace.

Are you reading about America?

 

[Shadow89]

- the right to life and liberty
- freedom from slavery and torture
- freedom of opinion and expression
- freedom to work and education

These are some of our basic human rights as per the United Nations constitution, what they believe is required within a civilised society. Perhaps it’s you who should go fend for yourself in the bush and leave the rest of us in peace.

You do realize you just proved my point right...?

You've already had heaps of shit curtailed - particularly the freedom of opinion and expression laws - I can't display my naked body in public and I can't harass you in public or discriminate.

There's a difference between 'freedoms' - of which we give up thousands every day - and rules and regulations that govern a civilized society - that the majority decide on and endorse.

Go f*cking protest about right to nudity, paying taxes, driving the speed limit, children being vaccinated to enter child care or the right to take recreational drugs - maybe then I'll actually believe you care about 'freedom' (not just this particular one that seems to be in fashion right now).

 

[Noidnadroj]

Just on the 'long term effects' concern, whilst I understand the skeptism around the speed of bringing these particular vaccines to market, the underlying technology (in vivo delivery of COVID-19 spike protein mRNA delivered via lipase nanoparticles) has been around since the 90s. We have been studying mRNA since the early 60s. The majority of the heavy lifting on this technology was developed off the back of previous corona-virus epidemics, such as MERS and SARS (some might argue that they were unncessarily moth-balled and that cost valuable time in developing the COVID-19 vaccine). So the technology isn't as 'new' and 'unproven' as you might think

I do acknowledge there are no long term studies on these particular vaccines as of yet however.

I’ve got a short-term 2-year study of COVID if anyone’s interested? 5-million dead. Without the vaccine would probably be 50-million by now given the way it would have decimated many 3rd world countries without the vaccine. It’s a readily available study and has good science behind it if anyone’s interested?


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[HereComesJuddy]

Ushers who will be overwhelmed by the crush at the gate and don't give a f. Same way people in the UK get in to clubs that are mandated as vax certificate only. Someone getting paid $10/hr isn't going to really care.

Slim to no chance then. Cool

 

[WWSD]

 

[Brett C]

- the right to life and liberty
- freedom from slavery and torture
- freedom of opinion and expression
- freedom to work and education

These are some of our basic human rights as per the United Nations constitution, what they believe is required within a civilised society. Perhaps it’s you who should go fend for yourself in the bush and leave the rest of us in peace.

Should you at least know the UN doesn’t have a constitution???

The UN has had some wonderful countries like Russia along with many others who’ve previously been on its human rights council.

not sure I’d hold them up as a bastion of great work

 

[pc79]

Slim to no chance then. Cool

At a carlton game, yes. Easy enough to control a trickle

 

[RUNVS]

The smug aura oozing off every anti-vax post is somewhere between amusing and infuriating - like ignoring science and not wanting to participate in society is somehow cool, intelligent and anti-establishment (when they're really just blindly following another far dumber form of establishment).

As for the Carlton player play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Must have some nice non-AFL career prospects lined up.

They think they know something the rest of us don't, that they are in on the real scoop and the rest of us are fools. That belief gives them a certain level of smugness.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

At a carlton game, yes. Easy enough to control a trickle

Not sure you can gloat about much after the last 12 or so months. But nice try there

 

[Wce17]

Guys I’ve stacked on 10 kgs in the last few months since I got the jab. Couldn’t possibly be anything else so I’ll just blame it on the vaccine...

Don’t get jabbed guys

 

[azlou]

- the right to life and liberty
- freedom from slavery and torture
- freedom of opinion and expression
- freedom to work and education

These are some of our basic human rights as per the United Nations constitution, what they believe is required within a civilised society. Perhaps it’s you who should go fend for yourself in the bush and leave the rest of us in peace.

We don’t care where vaccinated at the pub laughing at you

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Liam is the new hero for the anti-vaxers.
Maybe he can have a sportsman's night gig called 'Have a beer on zoom with Liam' , unvaccinated only, $125 a ticket , all proceeds to some moron campaigner on youtube.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I would like to know


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There are so many scenarios, with every poorly thought out government mandate there are a thousand loopholes to exploit and enjoy, the hardest part is deciding which one to use for that day.