LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
If you anti vaxxers spend as much time as you do whinging as you should to get vaccinated we’d be in a lot better state. You nutters love a good whinge usually based off Facebook lol
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Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL
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Austria locked down the antivaxxers and the vav hesitancy declined
Bulgaria let them do what they like and their hospital system is collapsing
Bulgaria let them do what they like and their hospital system is collapsing
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I think Czech republic too, something like 11,000 cases a day- our bohemian mate in this thread is right in the middle of it
I wasn't specifically having a go at you in regards to the quote but just showing that what you quoted needed more to give meaning to the quote. Providing the whole article is great though and is definitely encouraged.
What do you need to convince you that they're not gene therapy when you seem to be fine with the fact that they don't alter your DNA (unless I'm misinterpreting your last statement above)?
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I have to say, you've posted a few times in here and most of it is not really helpful for encouraging respectful discussion.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
We should be doing what Austria have done. Good on them the best way to do it. Be interesting to see how it goes there
- Sep 15, 2011
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At the end of the day, we're not the government, we don't have to diplomatically try to encourage them to reconsider their views. Some of these anti-vaxxers are so far down the rabbit hole, it's easier just to dismiss them as numpties at best, dangerously ignorant at worst.
I've generally lived by the rule that you get the same level of respect as you give. Don't expect a great reply if you start labelling everyone that doesn't share your view as "anti-vax", "whingers", "crazies", etc; and the same goes for the flip side of "sheep", "communists", "rabid lefties", etc.
There are absolutely some posters here that are well and truly down the said rabbit hole who dish out abuse and condescension with every post. They get the replies in the same vein. But there are plenty of people who are raising fair questions that we can discuss the science behind. Coming in with just a no-reply post of "anti vaxxer" "whinger" "facebook" "lol" adds bugger all to the discussion.
I'm not trying to police this thread and people can post whatever they want. Doesn't mean they're going to get great replies, but maybe that's what they want to achieve.
- Sep 15, 2011
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That particular post didn't add much, sure. But I'm of the opinion there are far less genuine posts raising fair questions about the science than perhaps you believe. We're 18 months into the pandemic, vaccines have been around a long time, a significant number of the anti-vaccine posts contain spurious information already debunked and when called out, simply deflect and move on to the next talking point, constantly ducking and weaving to avoid being held to account for nonsensical views. I mean, Christ, we had someone peddling the 'vaccines cause autism' barrow the other day, they deserve to be held in the intellectual contempt as flat earthers.
I to be polite in my posts, but anti-vaxxers do test my patience as well.
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At the moment the rules in Czech Republic are more or less similar to Victoria. Scan your QR code or fk off. Beyond that, the state no longer pays for your covid tests so you can get by being unvaccinated for free. If you get busted forging your QR code (yes, it's happening), it's a 10,000kc fine - about a quarter of the average monthly wage.
Austria is entering a more formal lockdown for the vaccinated, but it's not really much more than the same - scan your QR or fk off.
Nope. You haven't lived in the world where people are dying in their hundreds of thousands i each country. 0.3% of the country I am in has died from this and it'll be 0.5% by the end of this winter (5th wave). You have no comprehension of what that looks like because you haven't lived it. I have. There's no such thing as "just having a conversation mate" - a doctor says it's safe, you take it. You're an anti vaxer. You're causing people to die and I don't tolerate it.
Oh absolutely... there's been a lot of trash posted in here and they do get called out fairly quickly which is great to see. The best post are the ones that call them out with data to back that up, the worst are the ones that just outright insult with nothing else added.
And yes... the patience does wear very thin at times in here!
The other thing that sucks in this thread is the outright incorrect assumptions that people make when they think they're onto something. Case in point:
Maybe read over my posting history before jumping to conclusions.
You're absolutely right that I can't possibly comprehend what that is like. We've been unbelievably lucky here in Australia and people tend to forget that when they talk about these things and debate lockdowns and mandates.
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Personally I enjoy a bit of both
post some data and reason to disprove their conspiracies or just plain misused/fabricated facts and then when they start being dick heads about it, have some fun instead of tearing my hair out
Oh I don't mind your postings at all. You make the effort to actually provide some data... And I love data! [emoji23]
I read the article and no where does he state that the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy....What he does say is that the fact that they are working so well gives promise the the technology may be able to be advanced further into actual gene therapy.It's nothing more than damage control. Many are at odds to point out that it doesn't alter DNA, so there's been a concerted campaign to shift away from the term ''gene therapy treatments'', but it's nothing more than spin. You can see why the Bayer executive momentarily had a lapse - because he knows what they are.
Nature.com is one of the pre-eminent online science resources on the planet. I quote from their site:
''However, these mRNA vaccines, which have been developed and approved within a few months, signify a breakthrough in the field of gene therapy, which has battled to achieve ordinary acknowledgement due to a large number of sceptical and conservative scientists and other claimed safety and translational concerns. Although these two vaccines are not the first approved drugs utilising genetic materials as active ingredients, they are believed to be a milestone in modern medical history that may forever change pharmaceutical approaches.''
''This unprecedented achievement will also stress the crucial solutions that gene therapy may provide for many diseases. In the coming future, we expect to see a considerable effort for developing mRNA-based treatments for a wide range of diseases, e.g., hereditary disorders, type 1 Diabetes Mellitus, cancer, and HIV.''
Gene therapy avenues and COVID-19 vaccines
Gene therapy avenues and COVID-19 vaccines - Genes & Immunity
2020 has witnessed unprecedented situations due to coronavirus pandemic that affected all aspects of life. The whole globe lived months of uncertainty before two companies have announced the incredible results of phase III clinical trials for two different mRNA-based vaccines.www.nature.com
Let me add that the article is about as effusive as you can get regarding these mRNA treatments.
I understand why there's a push to now back away from the term by some, but it is patently clear what this technology is.
There's a legitimate argument that these treatments are not vaccines at all, but if they weren't labelled vaccines no-one would take them and no emergency authorisation would have been provided.
he writes: "In comparison to DNA vaccines, there is no need for mRNA to reach the nucleus of cells; it works efficiently once released inside the cytosol of cells"...which basically discredits everything you are claiming above.
EDIT: Apologies Trav, I didnt read the later posts and see you posted saying you accept some doubt...
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Beat me to it, for yourself. You like to beat yourself in this forum Gruffles?
EDIT. Gruffles By the way we can be respectful of others viewpoints and opinion, but when people are delibrately disingenous and misleading to push their agenda, your patience wears thin.
I'm not sure always posting data or numbers has any effect but if somebody asks you can always bring it I suppose.
A lot of this science is very difficult to understand and people need to go back to basics to even remotely get a semblance of it.
I just find that the anti-vaxx crowd tend to conclude 90% and 10% questions, as opposed to most on the other side tend to be 60% questions and 40% assumptions.
Of course science should be more 90% questions and 10% assumptions.
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It's nothing more than damage control. Many are at odds to point out that it doesn't alter DNA, so there's been a concerted campaign to shift away from the term ''gene therapy treatments'', but it's nothing more than spin. You can see why the Bayer executive momentarily had a lapse - because he knows what they are.
Nature.com is one of the pre-eminent online science resources on the planet. I quote from their site:
''However, these mRNA vaccines, which have been developed and approved within a few months, signify a breakthrough in the field of gene therapy, which has battled to achieve ordinary acknowledgement due to a large number of sceptical and conservative scientists and other claimed safety and translational concerns. Although these two vaccines are not the first approved drugs utilising genetic materials as active ingredients, they are believed to be a milestone in modern medical history that may forever change pharmaceutical approaches.''
''This unprecedented achievement will also stress the crucial solutions that gene therapy may provide for many diseases. In the coming future, we expect to see a considerable effort for developing mRNA-based treatments for a wide range of diseases, e.g., hereditary disorders, type 1 Diabetes Mellitus, cancer, and HIV.''
Gene therapy avenues and COVID-19 vaccines
Gene therapy avenues and COVID-19 vaccines - Genes & Immunity
2020 has witnessed unprecedented situations due to coronavirus pandemic that affected all aspects of life. The whole globe lived months of uncertainty before two companies have announced the incredible results of phase III clinical trials for two different mRNA-based vaccines.
Let me add that the article is about as effusive as you can get regarding these mRNA treatments.
I understand why there's a push to now back away from the term by some, but it is patently clear what this technology is.
There's a legitimate argument that these treatments are not vaccines at all, but if they weren't labelled vaccines no-one would take them and no emergency authorisation would have been provided.
You put 2 and 2 together and made 12.
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You call others liars and then you do this. Shame.
That is a very personal question, Roby.
So has Germany, more will follow it’s the logical solution, got to get them motivated and vaccinated.
Only if there are no underlying medical complications, present or recent past, this would make a decision to vaccinate very difficult without proper guidance and support, it’s then becomes a more delicate matter, not an easy choice.
You are a patient and tolerant poster, kudos to you.
I live by the rule that someone gets the level of respect they deserve
I definitely learnt to be patient and tolerant. I didn't necessarily expect to drive a little section of discussion with my post earlier!
I've mentioned before that I'm a teacher but part of my role is working with students with a range of issues, the absolute hardest have been working with students that have personality disorders (and there's been a few). My all time greatest challenge was a boy with antisocial personality disorder coupled with strong narcissism and an unbelievably intelligent mind. He would destroy people in arguments and even took a police liason officer to task after a serious incident at the school. Patience and tolerance was the best technique to disarming him as he didn't know how to react to that, he thrived on confrontation. He would fling insults at me to try and get me to bite... and be so annoyed when I didn't and instead replied with logic and reasoning.
I guess from that experience I approach most conversations online in the same way as, who knows... you may be talking to someone with a personality disorder.
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