Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[Slartibartfast]

guys if we can keep this thread to discuss the rumours of a certain carlton player who may or may not have declined to be vaxxed - it is Tom Browne after all - and not treat the thread like its a referendum on vaccinations in general - theres an entire hot topic board for that - that would be fantastic.

Both sides of the argument need to calm down. Im handing out cards and days off to those who dont take the hint.

This is a simple topic, a Carlton player allegedly refusing to get vaccinated and what it means for his career.
Please stop going down every distant rabbit hole

Most of the thread is hardly on topic, but plenty of completely irrelevant posts have been removed too. We have covid threads, religion threads, conspiracy threads…at least try to keep this one AFL related as it’s the main AFL board.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Sam Docherty, recovering from cancer treatment, is exactly the kind of person who is at added risk because of their impacted immune system.

And yet, someone at Carlton is more self obsessed in their own vaccine fears, because they've read some memes on Facebook.

Pathetic.

I agree with your point re: Doc, but the rest is just so speculative that it really shouldn't have been included.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

This is the one thing I want more answers on. How long will 'you tested positive, stay at home for 2 weeks' be part of our lives? We won't finish sporting seasons ever. If Finn Maginess had tested positive in June instead of today, what happens to Hawthorns next two games? I assume the playing group would then be subjected to close contact isolation (7 days).

Is there any government projection about this scenario? It's impossible to find any information on Google. When will testing positive for Covid simply be a situation where you stay home until your symptoms pass like you theoretically should be for other illnesses (tonsilitis, flu etc)?

There's your answer right there. In reality, anything contagious like flu, COVID, gastro, etc and players should not be around the rest of the group until they are no longer contagious. It's not hard, but it's become (or at least had become, prior to COVID) more acceptable to just rock up to work when you've got a cold, without concern for those around you.

 

[blueboy25]

Well this thread is an interesting insight into human behaviour.

On the topic itself - the AFL is a private sporting competition, if they want to set rules of no vax no play then players need to abide by that. I hope it isn't Liam Jones. My tip would be Matthew Kennedy given his religious beliefs. If it is McGovern, Martin, Saad or Williams tear up their contract straight away as they are overpaid.

Since Kennedy was updated to the main list from the rookie list late last week, I very much doubt it would be him as the club would not upgrade him if he was hesitating getting the jab.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Well this thread is an interesting insight into human behaviour...

...My tip would be Matthew Kennedy given his religious beliefs. If it is McGovern, Martin, Saad or Williams tear up their contract straight away as they are overpaid.

Interesting insight, indeed.

 

[faible]

And yet NSW has had half the deaths Victoria has and had with far far less lock down time and restrictions.

Why do you think that is?

What did NSW have during the bulk of their new cases that Victoria didn't?

 

[MisterMarcus]

It didn't. Because no Government in the world let it rip like the models assumed. So we have no real-world example of what might have happened.

Step 1: Here is the likely scenario if we don't take action.

Step 2: Governments take action to prevent the scenario from happening

Step 3: "Well the scenario didn't happen so that proves we didn't need to take any action!!!!"

Some outstanding logic from antivaxxers right there.

 

[BurnaHawks]

Sam Docherty, recovering from cancer treatment, is exactly the kind of person who is at added risk because of their impacted immune system.

And yet, someone at Carlton is more self obsessed in their own vaccine fears, because they've read some memes on Facebook.

Pathetic.

This topic has the nuffies coming out!

 

[Tedeski]

Ahh yes, the BLM protest, lets have a look at some example photos from that.
View attachment 1277559
Everyone has masks, one person in the photo has it on wrong.

View attachment 1277560
Most here don't have masks, only a couple do, and maybe 3 have them on correctly.

Its almost like, and I'll try and say this slowly, the protests were held at different times, under different circumstances, and the BLM protesters overwhelmingly wore masks which are scientifically proven to help stop the spread.

Shocking.

Yes of course you must be right because those 5 faces you can see in photo one are wearing a mask & the rest of the crowdwe can't see are given the benefit of the doubt.
Let me say this slowly.
They are all D...heads, you just don't like the look of the ones in the second photo because you don't agree with their motivation.

None of them should have broken the lockdown rules.

 

[One eyed Blue]

Nobody should lose their livelihood if they don't want to be vaccinated. Not fair in any way

Nobody should get a deadly disease at work because of some one else's choice to maximise the risk of that happening. Freedom to be safe is just as valid. No one is forcing the player to get the Vax, they have the facts and know the consequences of their choice .... this snowflake idea that freedom of choice/ speech is free of responsibilities and consequences has to stop.

 

[faible]

so many people now willing to get the vaxx

90% of the Australian population is pretty high, I agree.

 

[fishardansin]

I saw that Avi piece of shit at Princess Park. Coincidence? I think not!!

 

[Jeremias]

No, you clearly don't. Or, you're being deliberately obtuse.

Even after all these years I'm not quite sure which is correct.

It's fascinating. Sad, but fascinating.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Because vaccine hesitancy was strongest among leaders of newly arrived migrant communities in certain locations (e.g. Melbourne's northern suburbs) and local Imams can help stop the spread of misinformation.

Maybe because they’re not understanding information.
I’m double vaxxed but got denied taking my son to swimming today.
I can’t work out the myGov Medicare stuff online to have official info to show swim centre.
English is my only language.

 

[faible]

Maybe because they’re not understanding information.
I’m double vaxxed but got denied taking my son to swimming today.
I can’t work out the myGov Medicare stuff online to have official info to show swim centre.
English is my only language.

A few posters have said if you call up they're actually pretty helpful and surprisingly quick with getting it working, worth a try.

 

[faible]

And none of them got it done because they knew they'd be bullied or threatened into it if they didn't?

2.5 million still not vaxxed. Hardly a small number.

< 10% of the population over 12 is eligible and unvaccinated. Reducing by the day.

Simple stuff.

 

[One eyed Blue]

Well this thread is an interesting insight into human behaviour.

On the topic itself - the AFL is a private sporting competition, if they want to set rules of no vax no play then players need to abide by that. I hope it isn't Liam Jones. My tip would be Matthew Kennedy given his religious beliefs. If it is McGovern, Martin, Saad or Williams tear up their contract straight away as they are overpaid.

As for the topic of governments imposing mandatory vaccinations - I have a fundamental philosophical issue with this. We do not know the long-term side effects of these vaccines. It is up to people to make their own assessment after consulting with their GP. I know people who have had reactions ranging from a week in bed (myself) to being sent to hospital for heart issues. Though 95% of people I know that are vaccinated have had very mild side effects. However, the long-term impact on things like fertility etc are not studied or known. If you just blindly say "get the vaccine" and do not acknowledge the possible risks, then you lack to the ability to engage in critical thinking. People have the right to make an informed decision against these vaccines.

Personally I looked at my health (not great) and the risk of COVID to my life and determined in consultation with my GP that the risk of COVID and death to me far outweighed any possible vaccine risks. I have been double vaccinated since June and I will be getting my booster in December/January. But I was entitled to make that decision myself.

The sheer political hypocrisy of those who now cry for mandatory vaccination is insane. The large bulk are leftists who said don't trust the vaccine when Trump was President (as did the current VP), who argue against big corporations for putting profits before people (look into Pfizer etc history of issues) but now trust them and who argue the right to abortion (my body my choice - something I happen to agree with). The hypocrisy is insane. They also tend to be for human rights (defined as the right to free load or not be deported when committing criminal offences) for illegal immigrants and criminals, but think it is ok for the government to mandate injections? Finally, the biggest hilarity in it all is they attack "right wingers" for not being vaccinated, when in reality in Australia the biggest group is Indigenous Australians. In America it is African-Americans who by far are the lowest vaccinated. Why not be honest about where the so called "problem" lies?

In addition, if you look at the coverup over the origins of COVID (Faucci telling us now made in a lab in Wuhan, WHO, governments etc parroting this) how could you have confidence in what the Government says?

The same people who opposed Iraq and Afghanistan wars, criticised the CIA for water boarding terrorists, raise the WMD issue and countless others showing government lies now want to exclude people from society who don't trust the government or medical bodies impacted by corporate interests? But then the left has never been about consistency - simply power.

If some one chooses to have a vaccine it does not impact others, if some one chooses not to it does. You analogy of abortion ..... if a person is pro-life and chooses to have a child, it does not impact adversely on others, if they force some one else to have a child .... then they are impacting on others. Freedom of choice is never free from consequences, but if the consequences are for others rather than the person making the choice ..... then we have a problem. Freedom from catching a deadly disease is valid, and the choice / consequence trade-off is well known.

 

[One eyed Blue]

So when EVERYONE was vulnerable

The difference is Victoria has the most incompetent Premier of the nation.

Everyone started out on equal footing before vaccines started rolling out.

The destruction by Dan was well before then.

So when everyone was vulnerable ..... now there are choices to be made .... freedom of choice / speech does not mean freedom from responsibility or consequences

 

[One eyed Blue]

Maybe because they’re not understanding information.
I’m double vaxxed but got denied taking my son to swimming today.
I can’t work out the myGov Medicare stuff online to have official info to show swim centre.
English is my only language.

But we can all agree that MyGov sucks .... I managed to get my way through it with help from the Dept (for about an hour) .... but it should not be THAT hard

 

[MisterMarcus]

But we can all agree that MyGov sucks .... I managed to get my way through it with help from the Dept (for about an hour) .... but it should not be THAT hard

Really?

Pretty sure when i did it, there was an obvious link (Download your Covid Vacc Certificate Here) that I just pressed. Took me like 2 minutes.

 

[sherb]

I might believe that if so many of these progressives weren't Dan Andrews bootlickers in Victoria.

They are angrier at a few anti-vaxxers than they are of a lying corrupt Premier whose actions lead to the death of hundreds of people.

That's a prime example of people dying needlessly on a large scale.

Now, now, that's not a very nice way to talk about Gladys.

 

[VinnieB]

Maybe because they’re not understanding information.
I’m double vaxxed but got denied taking my son to swimming today.
I can’t work out the myGov Medicare stuff online to have official info to show swim centre.
English is my only language.

The kid's got no hope...

 

[master bate]

Considering the current Vic policy is only 7 days iso and expecting to change when we get to 90%, no chance a positive test will have any real impact on the season's running (other than the player having to isolate)
We're not all stuck in 2020 like WA are

We still aren't up with a similar attitude to say the US though, so there's going to be issues if multiple players on a team test positive with 48 hours of a game. Even if the rest of the side get negative tests back right away it's hardly a guarantee someone won't be infectious come game day.

Mandates right now make sense to allow players to train and not increase spread and hospital burden. But it's potentially interrupting the season where the mandate for AFL players makes the most sense next year. They're in close confines. They mix between teams on the weekend. They really all need to be protected not just for their health but to keep the transmission as low as possible to keep the disruptions in season to a minimum.

No one wants to go watch their team without 5 best 22 players.

 

[dee64]

Should he have resigned and left the Government with one less Minister? The Health minister had already got her marching orders. The public health team was massively boosted. Every state made mistakes with hotel quarantine, surprisingly they were under equipped to run a program that no one had ever thought of before yet alone tried. I would've liked a bit more honesty from Andrews but the reality is had he offered himself or his team up entirely he would've had to get the flick given the lack of nuance from the media cheap seats and those who lap up the herald sun and sky news.

If there was out and out corruption with the security guards then bring on IBAC and let's go. If it was a foolish mistake with a never done before system then I'm not surprised we've only had the response we did. Trying to not overtax the police or flood hotels and the streets with the army wasn't the worst idea. In fact the Liberals suggested similar apart from Gladys invading Western Sydney to clamp down on the immigrants.

The state Liberals never came forward and apologised for decades of underfunding the health system that left us without a properly resourced public health team. NSW had a proper team and systems in place purely because their health system has better structure with greater public oversight. The absolute gall of Jeff Kennett providing public commentary and criticism now when he stripped so much from our system. And the federal Libs never took ownership for the horrific staffing arrangements in aged care. Casual workers working across multiple sites really was the main reason for the deaths in the outbreak last year. If aged care workers were treated as professionals rather than immigrant shift workers the spread would've been massively contained.

Overtax the police? Fk me dead. I've heard everything now. We had officers patrolling my local park fining anyone in sight for minor breaches. And what was wrong with the army controlling the hotels? It's not like they'd be in riot gear armed with pepper spray. Oh Wait!!!

And don't give me this BS about aged care staffing levels. My dad's in a nursing home, and once the virus had spread due to Andrew's incompetence, there was nothing that could be done.

But let's hold a tennis tournament, causing another outbreak and lockdown. And once again Dishonourable Dan lied to the public. He was called out by the ABC and The Age journalists who refuted his suggestion that we would have lost the Australian Open to Japan. Even The Age recently had a front page headline calling him Teflon Dan.

 

[HolyWars]

The Hippies in Byron say hold my organic beer.

That was certainly the case, but the far right have come home strong in 2021, flogging the hippies in Byron by the length of Flemmington

They've become the "snowflakes" and it's amazing.