List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[Pafloyul]

BF logic, you can't trade a first round pick for someone like Wines, you need to go to the draft.

Hopefully we get a kid as good as Wines.

Not saying we will get Wines, but the whole idea that you can't trade a first round pick is ridiculous, the whole point of first round picks is to get a gun player, why does it matter if its via the draft or trade? The result is the same.

The grass isn't always greener.

God knows where you got that second sentence from because no one on here that I know of thinks like that. The point is, some of us hope we can do better.

I don't like the idea of giving up a pick that will nab us a player that could potentially turn out better than the player we've traded for; it's not hard to work out. If Wines as a junior was in this year's draft, there would be a good handful ahead of him. The whole idea that all so-called 'gun' players are created the same doesn't gel with me - your logic only works on people who already think the same as you.

 

[bmaurizio]

Why wouldn't you want lukosius? Him with curnow up fwd would be pretty good combo. Natural forwards that can do it all are like diamonds .

Agree and add Harry our 2M + package and your set for neut decade our forward line has been a shambles ever since Fevola was booted out. .

 

[DangerousD]

The point is, some of us don't like the idea of giving up a pick that will nab us a player that could potentially turn out better than the player we've traded for; it's not hard to work out. If Wines as a junior was in this year's draft, there would be a good handful ahead of him. The whole idea that all so-called 'gun' players are created the same doesn't gel with me - your logic only works on people who already think the same as you.

BTW Wines is an example, the scenario isn't tailored to just Wines. My point is the likelihood of a player in the draft being better than the guy you trade for is quite low. If you trade for a Wines type, you know how he performs at AFL level, you have seen a body of work to judge him on, you access work rate, skills and everything in between against AFL footballers. You don't get that when assessing U/18 kids.

You have no idea of knowing who or how many players would be ahead of Wines if he was in this draft, its still April and i bet if you picked a top 5 now, you would be lucky to pick 2 players who would be there come draft time, im not sure what your point is either, we are judging a senior player on his current output not his junior output.

FWIW if the 2012 draft was re-done tomorrow then Wines would be 1 or 2 if i was picking and it would be 11 years back until a number 1 pick was better than him too.

 

[1981]

We need Wines.
I need wine.

 

[DangerousD]

Thought i would attach this here as a reference or talking point when discussing the number 1 pick or trading it. I have always thought the number 1 pick is overrated and looking back on the last 10 doesn't change my mind on that.
Each name on this list was supposedly the best in the country that year, many i remember being a once in a generation player. I remember the hype of Kruz, Patton, Boyd and Whitfield but rarely are they the generational player they are billed to be.

There has been a lot of talk of raising the draft age which i fully support and looking back on lists like this makes me wonder if the recruiters have a big enough body of work to asses these kids on. Essentially 1-2 seasons against bigger bodies if your in the SANFL or WAFL and 2 seasons against other 17-18 year olds in the TAC cup.

I find it hard to get excited about the number 1 pick when imo pick 1 has only been the best player once.

2007 Matthew Kreuzer Carlton Northern Knights TAC Cup
2008 Jack Watts Melbourne Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup
2009 Tom Scully Melbourne Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup
2010 David Swallow Gold Coast East Fremantle Football Club WAFL
2011 Jonathon Patton Greater Western Sydney Eastern Ranges TAC Cup
2012 Lachie Whitfield Greater Western Sydney Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup
2013 Tom Boyd Greater Western Sydney Eastern Ranges TAC Cup
2014 Paddy McCartin St Kilda Geelong Falcons TAC Cup
2015 Jacob Weitering Carlton Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup
2016 Andrew McGrath Essendon Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup
2017 Cameron Rayner Brisbane Lions Western Jets TAC Cup

 

[1981]

How do we get Gaff?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Again, you continue to just make stuff up, when did i say always tale the forward? You are hilarious

You have it all worked out, not sure why you keep debating the point.

So i am clear, what type of players would you take with our picks, considering what we may or may not trade including delistings.

Let's say 6 list changes

Hahahahahaha nice move. Back track on that statement because our posts in that thread were removed due to site issues. It was in the 2018 draft thread and you know you said that. If anything, I referenced it here and you did not object...

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ent-discussion.1186643/page-108#post-55099999

Assuming our picks remain tied to our current position and no compo picks (I cbf guessing that)

1 - Rankine
22 - I'd look for a mid here that has the most speed + disposal skill available
32 - Best inside mid available
55 - Ben Silvagni
73 - Not fussed here, if pressed, I'd grab a small defender

I don't really see many significant trades happening. We don't have much trade value left and highly doubt we'll want to part with our picks this year. Wines for our 2019 1st is the only one that might happen but a lot has to play out for that. If not, perhaps our 2019 2nd will get involved for someone SOS has his eye on.

Every player we take must have a backbone though. I can't stand afraid of contact types in a contact sport.

Rankine + another fast mid with reasonable disposal will give our team the injection of speed it needs.

Another inside mid to help out in the guts.

Simmo is getting on in age, will retire in the near future. Wouldn't mind getting a small defender with some pace.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

We need Wines.
I need wine.

How do we get Gaff?

Are we drafting these 2 players?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

How do we get Gaff?

This has been talked about a lot already. He is a restricted free agent.

We need to offer him more money than what West Coast are prepared to pay him.

We need to convince him to nominate us.

The first one we can manage. The second one, we won't.

 

[DangerousD]

God knows where you got that second sentence from because no one on here that I know of thinks like that. The point is, some of us hope we can do better.

There are plenty of people who think like that here thats why i posted it.

Of course you hope you can do better but how often are they better? Judging players will change from poster to poster and we will rarely agree but for arguments sake use Wines or Shiel as an example and go back and tell me which number 1 pick is better than them? Out of the players who i have seen a lot of, so not counting Weits, McGrath and Raynor, i don't see a better player for quite a long time.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

There are plenty of people who think like that here thats why i posted it.

Of course you hope you can do better but how often are they better? Judging players will change from poster to poster and we will rarely agree but for arguments sake use Wines or Shiel as an example and go back and tell me which number 1 pick is better than them? Out of the players who i have seen a lot of, so not counting Weits, McGrath and Raynor, i don't see a better player for quite a long time.

Established. But the earlier the pick, the more chance you have to get what you want. If it works out it does. We all know players taken early arent always the best.

 

[Weiterbot23]

The AFL doesn't give first round priority picks anymore...end of first round is what we SHOULD get, so pick 19.

Getting a priority pick is like needing the teacher to tie your shoelaces, in high school.

 

[thylacine60]

Getting a priority pick is like needing the teacher to give you the test questions in high school.

 

[F_therest]

Getting a priority pick is like needing the teacher to tie your shoelaces, in high school.

Are you saying we should reject it or not even ask?

We'd be stupid not to ask for one. That pick 19 could draft a really good player or be part of a trade to get a good player.

 

[DangerousD]

Established. But the earlier the pick, the more chance you have to get what you want. If it works out it does. We all know players taken early arent always the best.

True but it seems when talking of trading these picks all of a sudden the kids are the best ever and the fact they are rarely the best player is not considered.

With this in mind it makes it easier for me to be happy if we overlook the KPF who is supposedly the best player and pick the best mid.

Maybe it can be a strategy when drafting, whoever everyone thinks is the standout number 1, don't pick him.

 

[The Grover]

O'Halloran BOG for the Western Jets again. Kid is a star in the making and exactly what we need. Just hoping he'll be around the mark of our second round picks.

Was at the game, he was very good as always.
Jets coach rates him as best leader he has coached.

 

[gandaal]

Why wouldn't you want lukosius? Him with curnow up fwd would be pretty good combo. Natural forwards that can do it all are like diamonds .

Because I understand modern football and don't live in the past.

 

[DangerousD]

If the Lions finish last, which i think they will, im sure they will be asking for a PP and considering the state of football in QLD i wouldn't be surprised if they got one.

It could help us if we were to apply, it would be hard for the AFL to give them another one when we have been worse over the same period.

 

[Malifice]

I would burn the place down and i doubt Bolton and SOS would survive and rightly so.

For a bottom two finish with a team full of kids and no elite talent in the top end of mature players aged 25 and over (barring Kade Simpson) that aren't currently injured?

Pull your head in mate. It was always going to be a likely bottom three finish this year.

We need to be performing better but it's just this kind of reactive bullsh*t that got us in trouble in the past.

We have a Road map and we will not deviate from it. Green shoots. The journey.

We can revise this discussion in 2020 when it starts to matter.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Are you saying we should reject it or not even ask?

We'd be stupid not to ask for one. That pick 19 could draft a really good player or be part of a trade to get a good player.

I don't like them

Once we finally become good I want it to be harder for the other teams to put together quick rebuilds, plus the non transparency irks me as it's open for AFL corruption.

 

[agro]

O'Halloran BOG for the Western Jets again. Kid is a star in the making and exactly what we need. Just hoping he'll be around the mark of our second round picks.

We have to rely on where the Bulldogs and Crows finish so our second round picks may not be as low as we’d like.

 

[hippyhippy]

Agree and add Harry our 2M + package and your set for neut decade our forward line has been a shambles ever since Fevola was booted out. .

Throw some quality smalls at their feet... Instant killer fwd line!

 

[Leon Black]

Really liked what Cal Twomey suggested in an article this morning, recruit Mitch Walis as a FA and trade for Will Setterfield, that way you fill needs to gain a great young Mid and also a mature and competitive Mid, you can then draft the best player talent wise that you see fit.

Lukosios, Rankine then Walsh would be my preferred order however wouldn’t be dissapointed with any.

The prospect of Jack and Charlie in the same forward line is pretty hard to go past though

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Getting a priority pick is like needing the teacher to tie your shoelaces, in high school.

No it's not. On the contrary, the idiots should never have abolished it to the point where you need to absolutely suck for 3+ years to even warrant a discussion about it.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

Getting a priority pick is like needing the teacher to tie your shoelaces, in high school.

Great analogy, but don't let pride get in the way of letting others do shit for you. Especially if those laces were soaked in urine from the grubby floor in the school toilet and you just didn't want to touch them!


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