List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[Blutopia]

I think you'd find that if Carlton and GC didn't have picks 1,2 & 3 in the draft, Walsh could slip to pick 4 or 5 quiet easily.

A potential/hypothetical draft order:

Adelaide Pick 1. Lukosius
Port Pick 2. Rankine
St Kilda Pick 3. M. King
Port Pick 4. Rozee
Pick 5. Walsh/Smith

Who would most clubs have at pick 1? Would more have Walsh or Lukosius?

 

[Doro]

Funny that I didn't want to mention Cuningham and thought to revert to Buckley, but just chose to leave names out....but now that you've raised them.

You know what's twice as funny though (not funny, but surprised no one sees this) is that there has been plenty of mention of Walsh not being a good kick on his left, but has anyone stopped and wondered why he is using his left at all and sometimes when most others would have taken the extra time to correct themselves and get to their favoured leg?

Seems to me that he's intentionally doing so in the heat of the battle for one obvious reason; He wants to get better.
There are times he's chosen to go via his left when he may not have needed to, at all.
Watch the clips again and you may see the same thing. Maybe not, but it's quite apparent to me.

It's fairly uncommon for the opposite foot to be well developed with underagers as well, seems to be the early 20s before the proficiency develops, if at all.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Who would most clubs have at pick 1? Would more have Walsh or Lukosius?

I reckon you'll find it would be a relatively even split between Walsh, Lukosius and Rankine.

There may be one or two clubs that would have Smith and Max King up there.

The thing with pick 1 is when you're a developing club, you can't have your first pick in the draft being a bust.

It's a big reason why everyone was considering Andrew Brayshaw so high up the draft order last year. Did Brayshaw warrant pick 2 on talent? I'd suggest not in that draft class but because he was so well rounded as a player, he was considered to be the least likely bust in the draft. Hence, Freo taking him at pick 2.

 

[Arr0w]

I reckon you'll find it would be a relatively even split between Walsh, Lukosius and Rankine.

There may be one or two clubs that would have Smith and Max King up there.

The thing with pick 1 is when you're a developing club, you can't have your first pick in the draft being a bust.

It's a big reason why everyone was considering Andrew Brayshaw so high up the draft order last year. Did Brayshaw warrant pick 2 on talent? I'd suggest not in that draft class but because he was so well rounded as a player, he was considered to be the least likely bust in the draft. Hence, Freo taking him at pick 2.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Wonder if there will be a 3rd party involved with a trade for pick 1.

GC pick 2 for Port's 5 & 15
GC picks 5 & 6 for CFC's pick 1

Nett result:
Gold Coast walk into the draft with picks 1,3&15 instead of 2,3&6

Means GC trading up to pick 1 cost them an overall downgrade of pick 6 to pick 15.

Port get either Lukosius or Rankine and retain their pick 10

Note: swapping of back end picks could be tacked onto these trades.

 

[katmanblue]

Because there's a strong belief that the SA boys will go home after two years. If an interstate club drafts them, they will be taking on the flight risk of these players, which is why the trade looks so lucrative for Carlton.

Just to put this in perspective, GC traded Prestia for pick 6 which was used on Jack Scrimshaw, who was then traded to Hawthorn after two years for an upgrade of a 4th round selection to a 3rd round selection. He played almost every game in the NEAFL so he added absolutely nothing to their side.

1. Adelaide were into Gibbs from day 1. Took them 11 years.
2. Eddie wanted to stay, we didn't come to the party.
3. Sauce wasn't given opportunity.
4. Menzel was a talented flog. We also did really well out of that trade.

I am not worried.

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[katmanblue]

I’m Team Walsh for the zero of you who care.


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I care, that you think I don't care.

Even if I don't.

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[katmanblue]

Bit like in 2015 draft of weitering cc shache etc. Charlie went 12 and now if we re-do the rankings now Charlie would be number 1

Or Oliver

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[Eiffel 65]

1. Adelaide were into Gibbs from day 1. Took them 11 years.
2. Eddie wanted to stay, we didn't come to the party.
3. Sauce wasn't given opportunity.
4. Menzel was a talented flog. We also did really well out of that trade.

I am not worried.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Correct. CFC can back their culture and system to retain players because we're a big and powerful club when up and running.

If you play for CFC, you'll be playing in front of 80k + crowds in blockbusters against the Pies, Dons, Tigers etc. at the MCG.

GC just don't have these aspects as a part of their club, which is why retention will be a bigger issue for them.

 

[katmanblue]

Who cares.

So What? - Metallica


(I won't post a link, don't wanna get banned for the racy lyrics)

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[BlueView]

I reckon you'll find it would be a relatively even split between Walsh, Lukosius and Rankine.

There may be one or two clubs that would have Smith and Max King up there.

The thing with pick 1 is when you're a developing club, you can't have your first pick in the draft being a bust.

It's a big reason why everyone was considering Andrew Brayshaw so high up the draft order last year. Did Brayshaw warrant pick 2 on talent? I'd suggest not in that draft class but because he was so well rounded as a player, he was considered to be the least likely bust in the draft. Hence, Freo taking him at pick 2.

Statistically there’s going to be a couple of busts in the top 7 or 8 if you had to rank in order of most likely to least likely to bust how would you rate them

Mine would be

1. Max King *Big man with injury
2. Ben King Big man
3. Rankine
4. Rozee
5. Lukosius
6. Blakey
7. Smith
8. Walsh

 

[Robertio]

So What? - Metallica


(I won't post a link, don't wanna get banned for the racy lyrics)

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Well nothing else matters.

 

[katmanblue]

Rozee was a Red (Rooster)
May become a Navy Blue
If Gold Coast trade up to 1
Instead of one gun we get two!

Guitar riff

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[BIGGUS 64]

It's fairly uncommon for the opposite foot to be well developed with underagers as well, seems to be the early 20s before the proficiency develops, if at all.

And then of course there are those who aren't too flash on their dominant side, either...

To me, it suggests a very professional attitude if a player is at pains to develop their non-dominant side. Even when I was doing my teacher training as a PE teacher, we were taught that skills should be practiced on both sides of the body.
Professional footballers who are serious about their craft should become at least competent at kicking and hand-balling on their non-preferred side.
I always cringe inwardly when I see a senior level professional football player turn and maneuver to get onto their preferred side, because they lack the confidence to simply dispose of the ball on their non-preferred.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Or Oliver

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Oliver was taken higher than expected I believe, but that would be one of my first stops in a time machine to take him pick 1.

He will be a 5 time AA and after Cripps is the bloke I would take now to start a club.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Statistically there’s going to be a couple of busts in the top 7 or 8 if you had to rank in order of most likely to least likely to bust how would you rate them

Mine would be

1. Max King *Big man with injury
2. Ben King Big man
3. Rankine
4. Rozee
5. Lukosius
6. Blakey
7. Smith
8. Walsh

Seems pretty close to the mark.

No one would argue with rankings 1 & 8, that's for sure.

1. Max King (May end up having repeat ACL's like Patton and struggle to get on the park)
2. Lukosius (His potential could range between Jack Watts to Nick Riewoldt)
3. Smith (Is reasonably developed and plays the power game against kids. Questions as to how his game will translate against men, however, he has the attributes (burst speed and penetrating kick) to be a star and the best mid from the draft)
4. Rankine (Flashy and a great highlights reel but will he do it on a consistent basis, get enough of the ball and play a 4 quarter game? Does he have the right attitude and work ethic to get the best out in himself?)
5. Ben King (Likely to be a solid defender but may end up as a spoiling defender against the #1 KPF. Fair chance his output may not match a pick in the top handful of this draft)
6. Blakey (Versatile and strong in the contest. Could potentially be less risky than this but it's always more difficult for taller players to transition into AFL)
7. Rozee (Could be an elite midfielder with the burst speed of Judd and overhead marking ability of Bartel. At worst, he's a high quality HFF or HBF)
8. Walsh (Well rounded player with little risk. No real faults in his game)

 

[Doro]

And then of course there are those who aren't too flash on their dominant side, either...

To me, it suggests a very professional attitude if a player is at pains to develop their non-dominant side. Even when I was doing my teacher training as a PE teacher, we were taught that skills should be practiced on both sides of the body.
Professional footballers who are serious about their craft should become at least competent at kicking and hand-balling on their non-preferred side.
I always cringe inwardly when I see a senior level professional football player turn and maneuver to get onto their preferred side, because they lack the confidence to simply dispose of the ball on their non-preferred.

Surprising for me that there has been no real improvement in non dominant side for draftees in the last 20 years when fitness/preparation has improved markedly with the TAC cup program.

 

[TerryWallet]

Oliver was taken higher than expected I believe, but that would be one of my first stops in a time machine to take him pick 1.

He will be a 5 time AA and after Cripps is the bloke I would take now to start a club.

Agree with your opinion of Oliver. Dunno about his selection being a surprise though. He was red hot by the last few weeks of the draft.

I vividly remember fist pumping the air when Melbourne picked him as expected and kept him out of *'s claws who were very very very anxiously awaiting with the next pick for him. He was clearly ahead of Parish by draft night

 

[TooBlue14]

Oliver was taken higher than expected I believe, but that would be one of my first stops in a time machine to take him pick 1.

He will be a 5 time AA and after Cripps is the bloke I would take now to start a club.

We should be in his ear for more money. I doubt he’s getting what he deserves at Melbourne. He’d be a handy addition in say 2020 and I doubt Melbourne could match.

 

[dlb99]

Wonder if there will be a 3rd party involved with a trade for pick 1.

GC pick 2 for Port's 5 & 15
GC picks 5 & 6 for CFC's pick 1

Nett result:
Gold Coast walk into the draft with picks 1,3&15 instead of 2,3&6

Means GC trading up to pick 1 cost them an overall downgrade of pick 6 to pick 15.

Port get either Lukosius or Rankine and retain their pick 10

Note: swapping of back end picks could be tacked onto these trades.

Port trading 5 & 15 for 2 makes no sense for them.

They have 5, 10 and 15 in a strong draft. Converting that to 2 & 10 is a losing strategy, and I suggest this is little chance of that unless Kochie becomes the list manager.

Pick 15 could end up being the best player in the draft (not likely, but not impossible either).

 

[Weiterbot23]

Agree with your opinion of Oliver. Dunno about his selection being a surprise though. He was red hot by the last few weeks of the draft.

I vividly remember fist pumping the air when Melbourne picked him as expected and kept him out of *'s claws who were very very very anxiously awaiting with the next pick for him. He was clearly ahead of Parish by draft night

I didn't realize that

I thought because he didn't make vic metro he was a bolter

 

[HARKER]

Agree with your opinion of Oliver. Dunno about his selection being a surprise though. He was red hot by the last few weeks of the draft.

I vividly remember fist pumping the air when Melbourne picked him as expected and kept him out of *'s claws who were very very very anxiously awaiting with the next pick for him. He was clearly ahead of Parish by draft night

Watched Oliver in TAC the finals (I'm pretty sure) and he looked an outright gun to me.
Was just doing what we see him doing in the AFL now. Easy to see why he would have gone early. It was no reach.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Surprising for me that there has been no real improvement in non dominant side for draftees in the last 20 years when fitness/preparation has improved markedly with the TAC cup program.

It’s because they’re not footballers.

 

[TerryWallet]

I didn't realize that

I thought because he didn't make vic metro he was a bolter

Oh he was a bolter alright, but the period he bolted was from mid year til the end of the season. Then from when he presented in awesome shape at the Combine compared to his normal shape he quickly rocketed to Top 5 in most eyes. By draft night he was a near certainty at Pick 3 to Melbourne or Pick 4/5 at *.

 

[TerryWallet]

Watched Oliver in TAC the finals (I'm pretty sure) and he looked an outright gun to me.
Was just doing what we see him doing in the AFL now. Easy to see why he would have gone early. It was no reach.

Yeah he was cautiously being added to 1st rd discussion in the public spheres on reports of his talent, but when vision became available most people were sold on him being a special player. I know i was.