List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

[Arr0w]

Lucky he does not have many weaknesses then.

Haha

You know his flaws LM

 

[Blutopia]

One thing to remember, the goal with drafting is not having busts. Don't have to remind people, how many players we have taken over the last 5-8 years that are no longer on our list/in the game, so I am content, if we keep pick 1 and take Walsh

Now, I am not saying that Rankine is a bust, but if drafted outside SA, requests a trade home, 16 other clubs would be concerned, why invest in a player for 2 years.

Walsh is a standout, but not a standout, when comparing him to the other top 6-7 players in this draft

Whatever happens, we are in a strong position

Possibly a flight risk but once he walks into our club with our list heading the way it is, his thinking of going home will change. He is also mentored by Eddie and I was under the impression he still held our club in high regard and make come back in a role after his career. All those conversations would be happening behind closed doors now so if they choose Rankine, they would do so with the best information.
I think we have had busts in the past but since SOS came on board we have picked up some good talent as I see it from what they have shown early on. I don’t think Rankine will be a bust, highly unlikely. I think he is unlikely to go home in 2 years or so but if he does, we will still get something back.
But you’re right, we are in a strong position.

 

[Blutopia]

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-11-20/tomorrows-heroes-jye-caldwell

Caldwell seems like a level-headed kid

Murphy in the background of the video was interesting

I think he’s the best mid in the draft. If we traded down it would be a good to get him back with his mates - Dow and LOB he mentions in the vid.

 

[Nori]

Not sure why 30+ disposals is the benchmark, there was only 7 players, league wide, that averaged that and only 43 players that averaged 25+

43 players (less and 3 players per team), we had 4, Simmo, Cripps, Murphy and Ed

Perhaps we will all feel more confident once the younger guys are amassing these numbers

Only? That’s a lot.

Possessions come with maturity. I don’t have any concerns about the new midfield line up getting the job down.

 

[Coona Blues]

We need a accumulator, can't have a team/midfield of 15 touch players.

We will come out of this draft with at least 3 new mids.
Walsh, is the epitome of an accumulator. If we pick trade for multiples, there will be a mid high in the draft.

I am certain Sam Fisher will be on the list, I have always liked him as a midfielder who could fill a genuine,
natural role as a forward. Yesterday's training reports put him working with Crippa in clearance drills, so the
club may see him more as a midfielder.

Brett Bewley as a mature ager was rumoured, albeit quietly a while ago. I am convinced we will take a mature
midfielder and I think he may just be our man, rather than taking a recycled Grigg, Schloithe type who perhaps
are seen to be "flawed". I have taken particular interest in Bewley profiles of late, and haven't seen a bad one.
Tested well for pace and particularly endurance at the state combine. Disposal listed as his highlight, was an
outside type who has excelled since moving to a balanced role with significant inside credentials added to his
CV. Just reads like a great depth mid, with a hint of Ed Curnow, just a little bigger, faster and with better
disposal.

Should we throw the rumoured left fielder out and take Rankine, I could live with that. There are not many
who would debate his freak show highlights. We would not be considering him if he was not showing some
positive tendencies attitudinally. I would almost bet on one Eddie Betts returning to the fold in a mentoring
role at the completion of his playing contract, this would become a certainty should we draft his "protégé."

The smart money remains on Walsh, but who the **** knows. Well done to the club for fostering a level
of intrigue re pick swaps or alternate number 1 selections.

Had Goddard pencilled in as a depth option in defence, but must admit I am not enthused by some training
reports placing him as struggling with endurance. Has had his injury concerns, which may put him a little
behind, but I would like to think anyone deserving of a second chance should have been hard at it proving
his readiness for the list.

 

[Blutopia]

And yet with "Cripps Kennedy Curnow Dow Fisher Setterfield LOB" on the list, Walsh is a must-have because "Cripps is the only proven 30+ possession getter"...?

Which approach would you like to take - proven stats or projected improvement? Because you're having an each-way bet to support your pre-conceived preferences on draft selection

Name the other clubs with more than two players that get 30+ touches a game? There were 7 in the league with that average, Cripps wasn’t even one of them (29.6). The ones I can find are Tom Mitchell, Neale, Laird, Seb Ross, Macrae, Crouch, Gaff (and he wasn’t even in the premiership team). No players from WC flag team, Pies, Tigers, Demons which IMO were the only true contenders.
So, winning a flag is not about having two or three big ball winners, it’s about a good spread of different types. We already have a number of 25+ ball winners and Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, SPS should push up to the 20-25 average next year on form - so I personally feel that if we could add a speedy mid (Caldwell, Smith, Rozee) who will be a 25 touch player in future plus Rankine - a 15-20 touch and 2-3 goal forward who can pinch hit in mid line Rioli or Wingard - that is the best option. If we bring in Walsh and he’s a 30+ touch player, I would still be happy and still feel we can find those other players next year in draft or FA, just my opinion of what will take us forward with the strongest hand.

 

[murphster]

Possibly a flight risk but once he walks into our club with our list heading the way it is, his thinking of going home will change. He is also mentored by Eddie and I was under the impression he still held our club in high regard and make come back in a role after his career. All those conversations would be happening behind closed doors now so if they choose Rankine, they would do so with the best information.
I think we have had busts in the past but since SOS came on board we have picked up some good talent as I see it from what they have shown early on. I don’t think Rankine will be a bust, highly unlikely. I think he is unlikely to go home in 2 years or so but if he does, we will still get something back.
But you’re right, we are in a strong position.

You make a very interesting point regarding Eddie Betts, if we could get him to commit to coming to Carlton as an assistant coach when he retires, hopefully in a year or 2 at most, that would change the Rankine situation entirely in my opinion, being his mentor and friend would keep Rankine tied to Carlton especially if Eddie comes just as Rankine is coming out of contract in 2 years time. I would back us to keep Rankine under those circumstances and Eddie would get the best out of him no doubt.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think people are forgetting just how good Will Setterfield is, would have probably gone pick 1 if not connected to GWS, so really after getting him we probably could take a punt on Rankine at 1 would solve our small forward problem and anything else he can do is a bonus.

Over the last three drafts we have mids who were taken at 3,5,6,10 and 13 and we already had Cripps. That should be our core if we have recruited well, we may just may not be able to see it yet. Fisher also looks the goods.
We also have Murphy and Curnow who should be able to help this group for the next couple of years while we look to trade in more or recruit. I don't think Walsh should be seen as anymore of a need than Rankine but actually the opposite considering top midfielders are available every year.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Name the other clubs with more than two players that get 30+ touches a game? There were 7 in the league with that average, Cripps wasn’t even one of them (29.6). The ones I can find are Tom Mitchell, Neale, Laird, Seb Ross, Macrae, Crouch, Gaff (and he wasn’t even in the premiership team). No players from WC flag team, Pies, Tigers, Demons which IMO were the only true contenders.
So, winning a flag is not about having two or three big ball winners, it’s about a good spread of different types. We already have a number of 25+ ball winners and Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, SPS should push up to the 20-25 average next year on form - so I personally feel that if we could add a speedy mid (Caldwell, Smith, Rozee) who will be a 25 touch player in future plus Rankine - a 15-20 touch and 2-3 goal forward who can pinch hit in mid line Rioli or Wingard - that is the best option. If we bring in Walsh and he’s a 30+ touch player, I would still be happy and still feel we can find those other players next year in draft or FA, just my opinion of what will take us forward with the strongest hand.

Going back a page - we're on the same side

My comment was direct at Omega Blue, who suggested that we need to draft Walsh because Cripps is the only proven 30+ possession getter. That's true, but ignores the developing players we have who are yet to reach their prime like Cripps has. Hence my tongue in cheek suggestion that we should draft King because we don't have a 35 goal forward.

 

[murphster]

We will come out of this draft with at least 3 new mids.
Walsh, is the epitome of an accumulator. If we pick trade for multiples, there will be a mid high in the draft.

I am certain Sam Fisher will be on the list, I have always liked him as a midfielder who could fill a genuine,
natural role as a forward. Yesterday's training reports put him working with Crippa in clearance drills, so the
club may see him more as a midfielder.

Brett Bewley as a mature ager was rumoured, albeit quietly a while ago. I am convinced we will take a mature
midfielder and I think he may just be our man, rather than taking a recycled Grigg, Schloithe type who perhaps
are seen to be "flawed". I have taken particular interest in Bewley profiles of late, and haven't seen a bad one.
Tested well for pace and particularly endurance at the state combine. Disposal listed as his highlight, was an
outside type who has excelled since moving to a balanced role with significant inside credentials added to his
CV. Just reads like a great depth mid, with a hint of Ed Curnow, just a little bigger, faster and with better
disposal.

Should we throw the rumoured left fielder out and take Rankine, I could live with that. There are not many
who would debate his freak show highlights. We would not be considering him if he was not showing some
positive tendencies attitudinally. I would almost bet on one Eddie Betts returning to the fold in a mentoring
role at the completion of his playing contract, this would become a certainty should we draft his "protégé."

The smart money remains on Walsh, but who the **** knows. Well done to the club for fostering a level
of intrigue re pick swaps or alternate number 1 selections.

Had Goddard pencilled in as a depth option in defence, but must admit I am not enthused by some training
reports placing him as struggling with endurance. Has had his injury concerns, which may put him a little
behind, but I would like to think anyone deserving of a second chance should have been hard at it proving
his readiness for the list.

We can now take Goddard in the SSP period as a rookie if he withdraws from the draft, I would be looking at Schloithe to take in the same way another mature big body in the middle. Although I agree wholeheartedly on Sam Fisher, needs to get a rookie spot his clearance, contested possession and tackle numbers where excellent in the second half of last year and he regularly hits the scoreboard, not surprised at all to hear he is working with Cripps as he would be a perfect partner for the big bull and is exactly what Cripps has been asking for, although so is Setterfield but the more the merrier especially as a rookie it’s a no brainer IMO.

 

[Blutopia]

Going back a page - we're on the same side

My comment was direct at Omega Blue, who suggested that we need to draft Walsh because Cripps is the only proven 30+ possession getter. That's true, but ignores the developing players we have who are yet to reach their prime like Cripps has. Hence my tongue in cheek suggestion that we should draft King because we don't have a 35 goal forward.

Sorry mate, missed your point

 

[smashbox gill]

I get a Brad Crouch vibe from Caldwell. Talent to be an absolute gun but can’t get on the park

 

[LemmingMaster]

Three threads, 1000's of posts.

Pick 1 - Walsh

Pick ~70 - Some unknown player.

/end draft.

*yawn*

 

[murphster]

Over the last three drafts we have mids who were taken at 3,5,6,10 and 13 and we already had Cripps. That should be our core if we have recruited well, we may just may not be able to see it yet. Fisher also looks the goods.
We also have Murphy and Curnow who should be able to help this group for the next couple of years while we look to trade in more or recruit. I don't think Walsh should be seen as anymore of a need than Rankine but actually the opposite considering top midfielders are available every year.

My point exactly people in the media under estimate the number of mids we have on the production line, plus they are talking about Doc spending more time there as well, which I personally think would be a mistake and damaging to our defensive transition as we saw this year when Doc wasn’t in defence to set up our attacks. But we are definitely not short on mids however we are very short on goal kicking smalls.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Murph might just stick around long enough for a flag like Crawford did at the Hawks in 08. Would be great to see for his loyalty. I agree with your post Soap, he does have a couple of good years of footy left in him. When you look at our best 22 and if most of our recruits and 3rd to 4th year draftees come on as expected, with a reasonable run with injuries - we could surprise next year and be a threat to sneak in the 8. Only IMHO though.

"The flag"?

 

[sydney_gws]

Yep

If you trade 1 for 3,24,29, gws could trade you pick 19 for 24,29. The reason being that 19 gets taken by a bid on Briggs, so 19 and 24 are similar worth to us.

 

[TerryWallet]

Over the last three drafts we have mids who were taken at 3,5,6,10 and 13 and we already had Cripps. That should be our core if we have recruited well, we may just may not be able to see it yet. Fisher also looks the goods.
We also have Murphy and Curnow who should be able to help this group for the next couple of years while we look to trade in more or recruit. I don't think Walsh should be seen as anymore of a need than Rankine but actually the opposite considering top midfielders are available every year.

I agree with this. But i would say that we "need" Walsh and Rankine equally. They are very different packages but both packages would be great for us right now and into the future.

 

[Coona Blues]

If you trade 1 for 3,24,29, gws could trade you pick 19 for 24,29. The reason being that 19 gets taken by a bid on Briggs, so 19 and 24 are similar worth to us.

29 or later will match Briggs. Good kid but bid might even be after second round.

 

[Macca43]

Over the last three drafts we have mids who were taken at 3,5,6,10 and 13 and we already had Cripps. That should be our core if we have recruited well, we may just may not be able to see it yet. Fisher also looks the goods.
We also have Murphy and Curnow who should be able to help this group for the next couple of years while we look to trade in more or recruit. I don't think Walsh should be seen as anymore of a need than Rankine but actually the opposite considering top midfielders are available every year.

The way the game is being played now its almost as if you can get enough midfielders, especially ones with the tank of Walsh.

 

[Blutopia]

"The flag"?

Yeah I think he will only play in one of them before he retires..

 

[Coona Blues]

I agree with this. But i would say that we "need" Walsh and Rankine equally. They are very different packages but both packages would be great for us right now and into the future.

Absolutely. We still need midfield depth, but the addition of Setterfield and hopefully some development and injury relief
somewhat alleviates the need at the top end. Walsh, with elite two way running and ball sense has plenty to add, that we
need, but there are 22 spots on the ground. Having options in all facets is essential.

So many are quoting Pickett, LeBois, Polson, Fasolo as our small forward options. There is no comparison with Rankine,
he is/will be light years in front. We are looking down the barrel of a dominant tall forward line. Pressure players can be
found or developed. Some things can't. I am probably more reticent than most to add another poorly focussed indigenous
lad to the list given a few kicks in the guts from these types in recent years. If Rankine is in the mix, he has talked to us,
realised he isn't getting to the Crows and looking for an acceptable option.

We are going to have to bite the bullet and commit a high pick to a quality goal sneak eventually. We have stuff all picks
again next year bar our first. On ability they don't come better than Rankine, so I understand why we may be looking.

 

[Arr0w]

If you trade 1 for 3,24,29, gws could trade you pick 19 for 24,29. The reason being that 19 gets taken by a bid on Briggs, so 19 and 24 are similar worth to us.

I would rather take 24 and 29 to the draft

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The way the game is being played now its almost as if you can get enough midfielders, especially ones with the tank of Walsh.

Agree to an extent but you look at West Coast they had one gun mid. They play 7 specialist forwards or rucks. (Not counting Cripps) plus a full backline of defenders.
You can only have so many genuine midfielders playing that role at the one time. For me none of Walsh, Kennedy, Setterfield, SPS, Dow, LOB are known for being dangerous around goal and Cripps is the best clearance player in the league so if you move him away from there than we lose more than we gain.
I don't see the point of playing a midfielder off a HFF and not be a goal threat when you can have someone like Rankine doing the exact same thing just much better.
I guess this is why clubs like versatile players but for me rather than having a midfielder playing forward 70% and midfield 30% surely you are better off having a forward playing 70% forward and midfield 30% especially with the new rules.
In saying that I think if we take Rankine our top~4 pick next year should be earmarked for a mid and nearly every trade target should be mids.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I agree with this. But i would say that we "need" Walsh and Rankine equally. They are very different packages but both packages would be great for us right now and into the future.

I agree but I think it'll be a lot easier to find our Walsh with our top ~4 pick next year or through trades

 

[bmaurizio]

If Silvagni could somehow contrive say , Rankine and Caldwell or Walsh and Rozee for both our pick 1 for drafts 2918/19, I’d sleep very well indeed.
In Silvagni , Agresta and Brodie we trust.