Caroline is bleeding.

[soho]

unmarried sex and gang bangs are slightly different, but i wont trouble you with the nuances of bedroom politics here...

 

[Ant85]

lets say that is the case. i still dont see any more reason for keeping the players on our list. they've ****ed up big time, they've put themselves in a completely unacceptable situation. it would be a fine show of discipline from the club to the player group.

lets face it, if it was corrie, or buckley, or even leon davis, chances are they'd be sacked already... but its not, its two very prospective young players...

its no coincidence that milne and montagna were young up and comers when they got off scott free...

compare that to lovett...

it just goes to show that you can **** up as much as you want, so long as you produce on the field...

I think it would be quite prudish to dismiss players because they engaged in group sex with a female who consented, then regretted it afterwards (not saying that's what happened, just responding to the hypothetical scenario).

Group sex is not illegal, and the club is in no place to demonise it or a player's personal life.

The only time the club should get involved is if their employees or players engage in illegal activities which harm the interests and brand of the club.

I'm not showing any double standard here. If the players are guilty, then I'm happy for the club to dismiss them. In fact I'll even write to Collingwood as a member urging them to sack players found guilty of rape or any other crime.

I don't want our great club associated with such criminality.

But having said that, I'm also going to presume innocent until guilty, and I think it's rather premature and extreme to intrude in someone's private lifestyle and cast judgment where the law has not.

Group sex is not illegal, and it shouldn't be treated as such, at the very least by a professional employer.

If they're sacked by the club for engaging in legal sexual activities, could we not then be liable for unlawful dismissal and discrimination?

 

[Pie eyed]

unmarried sex and gang bangs are slightly different, but i wont trouble you with the nuances of bedroom politics here...

No please enlighten us with some of your "expertise".
Surely this should be the place to display your credentials considering your claims.

 

[PieBeast]

unmarried sex and gang bangs are slightly different, but i wont trouble you with the nuances of bedroom politics here...

My info is our boys were not involved in a gang bang.
Stick your assumptions were sun doesn't shine.

 

[Pie eyed]

lets say that is the case. i still dont see any more reason for keeping the players on our list. they've ****ed up big time, they've put themselves in a completely unacceptable situation. it would be a fine show of discipline from the club to the player group.

lets face it, if it was corrie, or buckley, or even leon davis, chances are they'd be sacked already... but its not, its two very prospective young players...

its no coincidence that milne and montagna were young up and comers when they got off scott free...

compare that to lovett...

it just goes to show that you can **** up as much as you want, so long as you produce on the field...

Lovett got the arse pronto solely because other players were present and attested to his guilt in their eyes regardless of any legal finding.

The Saints went to a fair bit of trouble to get Lovett so your argument he was old and surplus to requirements only a month or so later does not stand up to even brief scrutiny from anyone.

It's fair enough for you to have your own moral compass but don't let that lead you to conclude it points in the right direction.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

So then what does she suggest happen if it turns out the two players are completely innocent?

Say "Oh well" and then she moves on with her miserable existence?

 

[danielnajdek]

I was sure Lovett got the arse because of not turning up to training or something like that That's what St Kilda said anyways. You can always believe what they say

 

[jonbe54]

i read plenty of shit mate...

heres my most recent amazon bulk purchase:

How to Make Love Like a pr0n Star: A Cautionary Tale - Jenna Jameson
The Selfish Gene: 30th Anniversary Edition--with a new Introduction by the Author - Richard Dawkins
Madame Bovary - Gustave Flaubert
Memory, History, Forgetting - Paul Ricoeur
The History of Sexuality, Vol. 1: An Introduction - Michel Foucault
The History of Sexuality, Vol. 2: The Use of Pleasure - Michel Foucault
Discipline & Punish: The Birth of the Prison - Michel Foucault
Male Fantasies, Vol. 1: Women, Floods, Bodies, History (Theory and History of Literature, Vol. 22) (Theory and History of Literature) - Klaus
Male Fantasies, Vol. 2: Male Bodies - Psychoanalyzing the White Terror (Theory and History of Literature, Vol. 23) - Klaus Theweleit
Sperm Wars: Infidelity, Sexual Conflict, and Other Bedroom Battles - Robin Baker
Portnoy's Complaint - Philip Roth
Ulysses - James Joyce

lol

make of that what you will

Why don't you read a few more books, try going to the 'Western' section of any public library. I'm sure you can find books with more than a passing reference to lynch mobs there and they can probably explain just how to incite a mob of half arsed hysterical morons into a blood crazed mob, intent on self righteous mayhem. Perhaps you can even find a description of how to make a good noose. CW is a rabble rouser intent on causing as much trouble as possible and making herself noticed, people like you are her tools.

 

[ant22]

i almost certain of two things:

1. rape did occur and the players named are guilty
2. they wont be charged

to say that they havent done anything wrong until they are charged and convicted is to neglect the failures of the legal system when it comes to allegations of rape.

a more appropriate form of action would have been to suspend both players indefinitely (until the investigation has run its course), immediately after the club found out about the allegations... to do nothing is a bit like sticking your head in the sand...


id be perfectly happy with the club sacking both players tomorrow...

Wow they are some pretty full on allegations. You are almost certain that they have committed the acts because you have read a few books on it. What I am almost certain of is that you have no idea what happened and chances are that even those who were there may not be entirely clear on what happened such was there state. Tell me SoHo if your employer sacked you from your job based on an allegation and you where not charged with anything would you take action. Despite what you think our legal system says we are innocent until proven guilty therefore unless they are proven guilty the club really has no right to sack them. But of course they football and as such should have less rights than the rest of us isn't that right SoHo? While I in no way condone rape and admire your stance against such a horrible crime you appear to be making an awful lot of very dangerous assumptions based on researching past crimes .

 

[Schooner Pig]

i almost certain of two things:

1. rape did occur and the players named are guilty
2. they wont be charged

to say that they havent done anything wrong until they are charged and convicted is to neglect the failures of the legal system when it comes to allegations of rape.

a more appropriate form of action would have been to suspend both players indefinitely (until the investigation has run its course), immediately after the club found out about the allegations... to do nothing is a bit like sticking your head in the sand...

id be perfectly happy with the club sacking both players tomorrow...

I really hope you never end up on a jury. How you can be certain of anything without hearing any evidence astounds me.

 

[_The_Magpie_Nut_]

I was bought up not to hit woman but to be patent when in their company....


If I see this ol' haggard cu*t Carro Wilson in public tomorrow I would punch her in the face.

Probably not, but I would spit in her eye for being the shit house human being that she is.

People are fu*king stupid and it's alarming.

 

[Suspense]

i read plenty of shit mate...

Heres my most recent amazon bulk purchase:

How to make love like a pr0n star: A cautionary tale - jenna jameson
the selfish gene: 30th anniversary edition--with a new introduction by the author - richard dawkins
madame bovary - gustave flaubert
memory, history, forgetting - paul ricoeur
the history of sexuality, vol. 1: An introduction - michel foucault
the history of sexuality, vol. 2: The use of pleasure - michel foucault
discipline & punish: The birth of the prison - michel foucault
male fantasies, vol. 1: Women, floods, bodies, history (theory and history of literature, vol. 22) (theory and history of literature) - klaus
male fantasies, vol. 2: Male bodies - psychoanalyzing the white terror (theory and history of literature, vol. 23) - klaus theweleit
sperm wars: Infidelity, sexual conflict, and other bedroom battles - robin baker
portnoy's complaint - philip roth
ulysses - james joyce

lol

make of that what you will

 

[morgoth]

Poor old Caroline, her pain at the Pies flag is killing her to the point where she has to make things up.

The club should have suspended GF celebrations to maintain unity with the admin? Yeah just like when you said we were a club in crisis over the MM/Bucks coaching debate last year. How did that turn out again?

Fact is she has to right this sort of 'opinion' crap because any story she has printed based on her 'investigative' skills has turned out to be utterly false.

Everyone time she bitches and moans it just makes me smile. We are the premiers, that is what is killing her.

 

[Gone Critical]

I was bought up not to hit woman but to be patent when in their company....


If I see this ol' haggard cu*t Carro Wilson in public tomorrow I would punch her in the face.

Probably not, but I would spit in her eye for being the shit house human being that she is.

People are fu*king stupid and it's alarming.

Your 4th sentence is spot on

Suprising after what came before it!!!

 

[The_cockateil]

Innocent until proven guilty is how it stands for rape/sexual assault/pedophelia etc. I've had to give a statement when I was at the Boy Scouts 10-12 years ago for our old club master was charged for pedophelia (Eric Butell I think it was in Rockhampton QLD, can't remember if it was Butell or another last name, as I knew a few Eric's.)

Disgusting that someone would try to twist allegations like this to tarnish the AFL, Sex crimes are way to tender to be made light of to push your own silly condemnations of another organisation. I honestly read this article and believe Caroline Wilson would happily chew out a victim of pedophelia soley to tarnish an organisation she dislikes.

Honestly, I don't want to fall to her level, but I don't think there is a basement door to her hovel.

 

[Snag Breac]

This is an intensely painful difficult and complex subject - not really the stuff of footy-forum fun. But one thing is clear - Caroline Wilson is and has for some time been ill-disposed towards Collingwood.

Her efforts to generate bad feeling between MM and Bucks failed spectacularly. Now we're going to have to endure her endless white-anting as she tries to "tarnish" our flag. Best not to give her too much attention. The CFC will survive any muck she can throw at it. I don't know why she bothers.

 

[jonbe54]

This is an intensely painful difficult and complex subject - not really the stuff of footy-forum fun. But one thing is clear - Caroline Wilson is and has for some time been ill-disposed towards Collingwood.

Her efforts to generate bad feeling between MM and Bucks failed spectacularly. Now we're going to have to endure her endless white-anting as she tries to "tarnish" our flag. Best not to give her too much attention. The CFC will survive any muck she can throw at it. I don't know why she bothers.

Snag she 'bothers' because she knows that any headline with Collingwood in it gains instant attention. Any half @rsed sh1t kicker desperate for attention loves that type of recognition. She is a scheming manipulative witch only interested in her own self aggrandizement through any means whatsoever - no matter who suffers. An appalling scrap of so-called humanity trolling the dregs of journalistic depravity in search of a vehicle towards longed for relevance. Never going to happen.

 

[augie]

To be honest I don't quite get the hate for Caro re this article. The only part where I see her going a step beyond reasonable is this "something truly unpleasant took place in a private establishment involving footballers - even though they claim to be innocent of her allegations - and a woman in the hours that followed the 2010 premiership".

Prior to that I would have to agree with her that we erred in not having a more private (and perhaps subdued) Mad Monday. Whether that warrants an article is another matter, but I would agree with her that, given the circumstances it was not a good look.

The next aspect is her assessment of our reaction to our players being named, compared with the Lovett and Fevola scenarios. I am also confused as to why one is different to the other, and agree with her that it is probably because St Kilda wanted Lovett out and Brisbane wanted Fevola out. No problem with what she is saying there.

Then she talks about the allegations tarnishing the game, and to a certain extent I agree. AFL is strong because of the steps it took to clean up the image of the game. Central to this has been the treatment of women. It is not a good look for a member of the premiership winning team to have allegations of sexual assault levelled against him. No problem with what she is saying there.

So for me it comes down to her assertion that, as an established fact, something unpleasant took place. I think it is here that she appears to have overstepped. But I get the impression she is talking more about the culture surrounding the treatment of women rather than whether sexual assault has occurred.

 

[Koki Freelander]

lol, nah far from it mate... i dont know anyone close to me who's been raped etc... i've just read a few books on it out of interest...

Soho - everything you are saying about rape, rape statistics, prospects for prosecution etc is true.

But you cannot seriously be suggesting that the opposite scenario is preferable/fair (ie: if someone is raped/sexually assaulted at a party then everyone at that party is immediately under suspicion and should all be suspended/terminated from their day-jobs and be the subject of public scrutiny).

If the players did participate in a sexual assault or a rape then I hope they never play for Collingwood again.

If they ultimately were involved but "get away with it" then that would be a terrible injustice but I see no way that you or I would ever know what happened for sure and would be in no position to comment.

Terribly unhelpful thread.

 

[Tubbs Farquar]

Soho,

Disappointed that someone else beat me to the punch with the troll comparison, it is so apt. Take your specious arguments elsewhere, they're neither welcome nor appropriate here.

Looking forward to your reply though.

PS: If you have any information relevant to this investigation, please contact Victoria Police otherwise just wait like everyone else for the outcome.

 

[Manic Shadow]

I was bought up not to hit woman but to be patent when in their company....


If I see this ol' haggard cu*t Carro Wilson in public tomorrow I would punch her in the face.

Probably not, but I would spit in her eye for being the shit house human being that she is.

People are fu*king stupid and it's alarming.

Whoahh, beat wives much

 

[Shinbones]

Are you out of your mind??? There are enough false accusations made about high profile people already. I'm not saying the accusations are false but if the club/AFL took such action it would almost certainly result in more accusations being made. There is a certain type of individual who craves this type of notoriety - again not saying this is the case this time - and seeing a single accusation destroying the reputations of a couple of public figures and dictating the actions of such a powerful body as the AFL is just the type of reward that type of petty, shallow individual is looking for.

There are processes put in place for dealing with just this type of situation and they are being followed. If the club/AFL were to knee jerk react in the way you suggest it would be open season and also reward gutter journalism such as we have seen.

Trust in the processes, don't give air time to muppets like caroline and her ilk and get on with the celebrations.

Here here ..... Caroline Wilson is a muck raking shite stirring cow .
Her moralistic crap is bordering on illegal. These boys what ever has happened are intitled to a fair hearing without journalists trying to make a buck and a reputation out of it .
She damns all afl players and in paticular collingwood players and the AFL for giving these 2 players the benifit of due process.
I am a big one for where theres smoke theres fire and for mine the very fact that collingwood has stood by these blokes says to me they have no case to answer. Yes they could have done things very differently but geebus they are young people living in a different world to carolines bubble.But to slam the other players for celebrating a life time achievement ,the afl and all the male world....... give us a break caroline .
Continue the party !!!!Well done pies.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Anyone else heard the rumours about a now senior female footy journalist who got up to all sorts of things on a tour of Ireland?

Maybe Caro could look into that one?

 

[domus]

Soho - everything you are saying about rape, rape statistics, prospects for prosecution etc is true.

But you cannot seriously be suggesting that the opposite scenario is preferable/fair (ie: if someone is raped/sexually assaulted at a party then everyone at that party is immediately under suspicion and should all be suspended/terminated from their day-jobs and be the subject of public scrutiny).

If the players did participate in a sexual assault or a rape then I hope they never play for Collingwood again.

If they ultimately were involved but "get away with it" then that would be a terrible injustice but I see no way that you or I would ever know what happened for sure and would be in no position to comment.

Terribly unhelpful thread.

No -some of it is very untrue. Soho thinks he is an intellectual who is "in the know" on important matters. He is simply parroting a number of discredited myths that are sadly swallowed by most of the general public. I suppose if you are told a lie often enough people will come to accept it.

 

[yazdo]

so tell me, how do you prove you said no to some bloke raping you after a night on the sauce, when there are no scars left of your body, no witnesses, and its 4 days before you recover from the trauma and make it to the police station, meaning there is no remaining evidence in your arseh*le...? (thats assuming you're one of the 1% of guys who report being raped, chances are you'd just bottle it and live with the emotional scaring...)

its your word against his, charges are never laid and the case is discontinued due to lack of evidence, just like milne's...

thats what innocent until proven guilty gets you when it comes to rape, and statistics show this time and time again...

Just a few questions. When you say "meaning there is no remaining evidence in your arseh*le...?"
Who the Hell are you talking about? Were you raped in the arseh*le?