Politics Centrelink

[CakeEater]

Appears to be relying on an 'independent report' that drug and alcohol consumption has significantly dropped and spending on gambling has also fallen.

I doubt most of us could comment either way on the legitimacy of said report. But I have noticed on twitter a lot of the left have come out against it.

The thing I quite liked about it was that after the announcement that Kalgoorlie would be the next place for this cashless welfare trial which is meant to limit excessive drinking and gambling, is that the next photograph of the PM and the Social Services Minister was of them having a beer in Kal.

 

[MAGA]

I doubt it works, deadbeats are going to find a way to cheat the system, whether it be through theft or trade....if only they tried working as an option.

 

[CakeEater]

I doubt it works, deadbeats are going to find a way to cheat the system, whether it be through theft or trade....if only they tried working as an option.

Genuine question here Maga- Have you ever been to the East Kimberleys, which is one of the current test locations for this cashless welfare card.

Quick cliff notes for you:
1. There isnt enough work to go around to justify the population up there, hence why theres such unemployment up there.
2. If you do work, You either work on the mines (which the community gains/mining company gains), in tourism(if you are conversant enough in English), on the Pearl boats, or if you are really remote- you "work" on the community at one of the roadhouses where if you arent of the same clan as the leader of the community you have no hope (where like a lot of things in life, its not what you know....)

 

[MAGA]

Genuine question here Maga- Have you ever been to the East Kimberleys, which is one of the current test locations for this cashless welfare card.

Quick cliff notes for you:
1. There isnt enough work to go around to justify the population up there, hence why theres such unemployment up there.
2. If you do work, You either work on the mines (which the community gains/mining company gains), in tourism(if you are conversant enough in English), on the Pearl boats, or if you are really remote- you "work" on the community at one of the roadhouses where if you arent of the same clan as the leader of the community you have no hope (where like a lot of things in life, its not what you know....)

Can't say I have, been to Ceduna many many times, scary place at night, perfectly fine during the day.

1. So Tony Abbott had the right idea closing remote communities? I am talking about deadbeats, not honest people doing what they canto find employment.
2. If you know you have no chance of finding employment, that instead of wasting money on drugs / grog you should save to fund moving to somewhere where you can or just accept that you wont find employment and take whatever the government gives you, without complaint.

 

[CakeEater]

Can't say I have, been to Ceduna many many times, scary place at night, perfectly fine during the day.

1. So Tony Abbott had the right idea closing remote communities? I am talking about deadbeats, not honest people doing what they canto find employment.
2. If you know you have no chance of finding employment, that instead of wasting money on drugs / grog you should save to fund moving to somewhere where you can or just accept that you wont find employment and take whatever the government gives you, without complaint.

1. No, as it wasnt coupled with substantive repatriation and indigenous people like white people dont like moving too far away from home. So all it would end up doing is moving, not mitigating the problem.
2. Everybody complains when the government doesnt given them what they want, its an endemic feature throughout society- why should the unemployed be any different?

 

[MAGA]

1. No, as it wasnt coupled with substantive repatriation and indigenous people like white people dont like moving too far away from home. So all it would end up doing is moving, not mitigating the problem.
2. Everybody complains when the government doesnt given them what they want, its an endemic feature throughout society- why should the unemployed be any different?

1. That is not true, white people have moved around for centuries, especially Europeans. Aboriginals moved around to places with better/ more resources you can look at this current situation now as to how it was back then.
2. It is completely immoral to complain about government when you are not willing to participate in what society desires you to do, make every effort to find employment because you are living off someone elses labor. Please note I am basically talking about dole bludgers here not those actually trying to find work/ improve their skills etc.

 

[NSWCROW]

https://theaimn.com/lnp-welfare-card-true-facts-exposed-corruption-disguised-philanthropy/

The Liberal National Party (‘LNP’) Welfare Card programme is really a LNP rort for the benefit of the Liberal and National Parties and their members, donors and supporters. Indue Pty Ltd, the corporation awarded the contract to manage the Welfare Card programme and to operate its underlying systems, is a corporation owned by Liberal and National Party members and that donates to various Liberal and National Party branches around Australia. The former chairman of Indue is none other than former LNP MP Larry Anthony who is the son of former Liberal Country Party Deputy Prime Minister Doug Anthony

When ISN'T the fix-in when it comes to these dogs ?
100% fix , just like Abbotts " Jobactive " revamp

 

[CakeEater]

1. That is not true, white people have moved around for centuries, especially Europeans. Aboriginals moved around to places with better/ more resources you can look at this current situation now as to how it was back then.
2. It is completely immoral to complain about government when you are not willing to participate in what society desires you to do, make every effort to find employment because you are living off someone elses labor. Please note I am basically talking about dole bludgers here not those actually trying to find work/ improve their skills etc.

1. Empirical evidence suggests that Australians will move to Europe not to other Australian locations.
2. No disrespect here, but to extrapolate this forward- businesses complain about government taxes yet engage in tax avoidance and rely on services raised on funds from others (not from their own tax collections).

Its an endemic cause in all layers of society- bashing one section without taking an overarching view of the whole society will only lead to entrenched battle positions and no way forward.

 

[Power Raid]

The Liberals probably stole the idea from the sister parties in the UK and US, but yes the internet ******* tabloid newspapers in the arseh*le is really ruining it's effect. That, and everybody who isn't a retiree or wingnut knows the days of full employment are long gone.

Why? There is more work than people

 

[geelong_crazy26]

1. Empirical evidence suggests that Australians will move to Europe not to other Australian locations.
2. No disrespect here, but to extrapolate this forward- businesses complain about government taxes yet engage in tax avoidance and rely on services raised on funds from others (not from their own tax collections).

Its an endemic cause in all layers of society- bashing one section without taking an overarching view of the whole society will only lead to entrenched battle positions and no way forward.

Business provide goods or services and they also provide employment , dole bludgers sit at home and get paid with money that is taken out of the pay packet of working Australians .

When someone reduces the money they pay on tax they are keeping more of their own money , when someone gets the dole they are taking someone elses money .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

1. No, as it wasnt coupled with substantive repatriation and indigenous people like white people dont like moving too far away from home. So all it would end up doing is moving, not mitigating the problem.
2. Everybody complains when the government doesnt given them what they want, its an endemic feature throughout society- why should the unemployed be any different?

Self interest always comes first for all groups in society , that's just human nature . But the way society works is that people play some type of role in making or delivering a good or service and than receive compensation . People basically give and than get in return . People on the dole provide nothing , they just get and give nothing in return .

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The human services portfolio is a position given to an up and coming superstar , he will soon be a very senior member of the liberal party .

He is doing a very good job with these cashless welfare cards .

This part is probably true. Only Peter Dutton and Scott Morrison are better at kicking the unfortunate.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This part is probably true. Only Peter Dutton and Scott Morrison are better at kicking the unfortunate.

Dole bludgers are not unfortunate , they are very greedy and selfish people.

 

[JackOutback]

So let me get this correct watching TV and sleeping in will do more to help someone on the dole find a job than attending meetings with their employment agency and working for the dole ?

Work for the dole and meetings with agencies out guys , more day time TV and sleep ins are the way to go for people on the dole .

Nice straw man.

 

[Always Ballin]

Persecuting the less fortunate and underprivileged does not work. Drug tests are a waste of time. We have the data that unequivocally PROVES this strategy bears no fruit.

It's time we look at the FACTS.

 

[RupieDupie]

Self interest always comes first for all groups in society , that's just human nature . But the way society works is that people play some type of role in making or delivering a good or service and than receive compensation . People basically give and than get in return . People on the dole provide nothing , they just get and give nothing in return .

Here's another way to look at it, my interpretation of history;

A major shoe company is operating within a country, and this major shoe company is pissed off, the reason being is it has to provide a salary to its employees for them to be able to eat etc. The shoe company used to be able to exploit children to do this, and when 3 out of 5 were dying of "consumption" and black lung, this was ok, but the problem was when 4.7 out of 5 were dying. This issue wasn't an ethical issue, to exploit and kill small children made good economic sense for a robust economy, but the issue was, too many workers were dying who could not be replaced before the next shoe shipment. As a result they were forced to employ adults who need to eat more, and also have rights due to the assholes who abolished slavery, and this comes out of the Cost column and therefore subtracts from the Profit column.

Then something inexplicable happens. The world opens up, and the CEO of the major shoe company thinks to itself 'why should I pay a minimum standard wage with all the trimmings in a modern western country, where people have @rights and @freedoms, when I can pay a subset of the billion little children from a third world country 1000% less money, because these sub humans don't have rights and freedoms?'

In a normal world the government would be shocked by this way of thinking (but I suppose in a normal world the "third world" wouldn't even exist in the first place), but in this crappy version of reality, the government, instead of flogging this reprobate CEO of a shoe company for crimes against humanity, enables the behaviour as forward thinking innovative global business practice, and awards him a "going beyond borders" monetary grant.

The CEO of the shoe company thinks himself a mathematical genius and the major lay-economic magazines of the day celebrate him as such.

Then one day the CEO looks at his chart of rising profits and sees a blip downwards. He puts this blip down to a bit of noise with the cowhide prices for his luxury line. But the blip grows, so the CEO consults the figures underlying the charts and finds that sales are down. The reason for this downward trend is due to his mathematical genius, a lot of other CEOs caught on immediately and started implementing the same mathematical economic model of raping people from third world countries. As a result, no one in his country can afford to buy his crappy marked up brand shoes anymore.

In a normal world, people would have cottoned on to the issue immediately, but in this half-baked reality, the morons in charge used their combined 0.0000000000000001 bits/sec of bandwidth to say "duh! The mathematics is correct, the problem lies with the consumers not the producers, what should we do? Are we allowed to waterboard some of them?"

Just before there is an unanimous agreement to strip and torture a random sample of humanity to resolve this issue, a real economist bursts in the room shouting "stop!". This economist then presents a large number of charts and figures and explains why no one can buy shoes and other goods / services anymore - they are unemployed. The economist suggests they can either a) give them their jobs back or b) give them a form welfare for them to be able to buy goods and services.

The dimwits in charge think on this for thirty years straight including 17 independent government funded reviews, until finally they come to the decision that the people should be given welfare, but only at a rate at the cost of buying three tins of dog food per fortnight as well as a brand spanking set of shoes.

This is a win-win for the people in charge, as they can both torture people from their own community as well as dick off their shitty products onto humanity.

TLDR ...and this is how we got the welfare state. From greed at the top, not bottom.

 

[GreyCrow]

And some people want shoe cards to be given out so only shoes can be bought

 

[Hawk Dork]

Quite clever to turn a lack of jobs problem into a dole bludger problem
Then remove cash because only rich people know how to spend money
If crime picks up because of a lack of cash it becomes a law and order issue
We need to get tough on crime.

The circle of life in the right wingers mind

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Here's another way to look at it, my interpretation of history;

A major shoe company is operating within a country, and this major shoe company is pissed off, the reason being is it has to provide a salary to its employees for them to be able to eat etc. The shoe company used to be able to exploit children to do this, and when 3 out of 5 were dying of "consumption" and black lung, this was ok, but the problem was when 4.7 out of 5 were dying. This issue wasn't an ethical issue, to exploit and kill small children made good economic sense for a robust economy, but the issue was, too many workers were dying who could not be replaced before the next shoe shipment. As a result they were forced to employ adults who need to eat more, and also have rights due to the assholes who abolished slavery, and this comes out of the Cost column and therefore subtracts from the Profit column.

Then something inexplicable happens. The world opens up, and the CEO of the major shoe company thinks to itself 'why should I pay a minimum standard wage with all the trimmings in a modern western country, where people have @rights and @freedoms, when I can pay a subset of the billion little children from a third world country 1000% less money, because these sub humans don't have rights and freedoms?'

In a normal world the government would be shocked by this way of thinking (but I suppose in a normal world the "third world" wouldn't even exist in the first place), but in this crappy version of reality, the government, instead of flogging this reprobate CEO of a shoe company for crimes against humanity, enables the behaviour as forward thinking innovative global business practice, and awards him a "going beyond borders" monetary grant.

The CEO of the shoe company thinks himself a mathematical genius and the major lay-economic magazines of the day celebrate him as such.

Then one day the CEO looks at his chart of rising profits and sees a blip downwards. He puts this blip down to a bit of noise with the cowhide prices for his luxury line. But the blip grows, so the CEO consults the figures underlying the charts and finds that sales are down. The reason for this downward trend is due to his mathematical genius, a lot of other CEOs caught on immediately and started implementing the same mathematical economic model of raping people from third world countries. As a result, no one in his country can afford to buy his crappy marked up brand shoes anymore.

In a normal world, people would have cottoned on to the issue immediately, but in this half-baked reality, the morons in charge used their combined 0.0000000000000001 bits/sec of bandwidth to say "duh! The mathematics is correct, the problem lies with the consumers not the producers, what should we do? Are we allowed to waterboard some of them?"

Just before there is an unanimous agreement to strip and torture a random sample of humanity to resolve this issue, a real economist bursts in the room shouting "stop!". This economist then presents a large number of charts and figures and explains why no one can buy shoes and other goods / services anymore - they are unemployed. The economist suggests they can either a) give them their jobs back or b) give them a form welfare for them to be able to buy goods and services.

The dimwits in charge think on this for thirty years straight including 17 independent government funded reviews, until finally they come to the decision that the people should be given welfare, but only at a rate at the cost of buying three tins of dog food per fortnight as well as a brand spanking set of shoes.

This is a win-win for the people in charge, as they can both torture people from their own community as well as dick off their shitty products onto humanity.

TLDR ...and this is how we got the welfare state. From greed at the top, not bottom.

This is just Marxism you are totally removed from reality.

Firstly you know who is forcing companies to send jobs overseas ? Its consumers. I have lots of experience with this as my dad used to try and have all of his companies work done in Australia. Problem was as competitors started to get more and more work done overseas they were able to sell their products for a cheaper price. Dad lost so many clients he had no choice but to fire s number of workers and get more work done overseas. Consumers rich , poor or in between will not pay extra for something made in Australia. They want the cheapest and the best.

Secondly Australia has a very high minimum wage by world standard .when someone employs someone else they are doing them a huge favor, my dad is not obliged to provide anyone with employment.

Third people have the opportunity in this country if they do well at school to enter a profession that pays well . Shoe makers made bad choices and only have themselves to blame.

Finally when you give someone money for the dole you are giving them money for nothing that is paid for with taxes. It would be better for the economy to not have the dole and cut back on taxes.

 

[Gough]

Finally when you give someone money for the dole you are giving them money for nothing that is paid for with taxes. It would be better for the economy to not have the dole and cut back on taxes.

Lots of people on the dole have paid taxes all their life but for one reason or another find themselves without a job. Were you opposed to the John Howard tax cuts that put the country into structural deficit, that was justified as giving people back what they paid in taxes, how is unemployment benefit different to that?

 

[Hawk Dork]

All the dole gets returned to the land lords and shop keepers and creates profit and jobs
a stimulus package with far quicker economic benefit than waiting for the money to trickle down from tax cuts to the rich and foreign owned corporations

 

[RupieDupie]

This is just Marxism you are totally removed from reality.

Firstly you know who is forcing companies to send jobs overseas ? Its consumers. I have lots of experience with this as my dad used to try and have all of his companies work done in Australia. Problem was as competitors started to get more and more work done overseas they were able to sell their products for a cheaper price. Dad lost so many clients he had no choice but to fire s number of workers and get more work done overseas. Consumers rich , poor or in between will not pay extra for something made in Australia. They want the cheapest and the best.

Secondly Australia has a very high minimum wage by world standard .when someone employs someone else they are doing them a huge favor, my dad is not obliged to provide anyone with employment.

Third people have the opportunity in this country if they do well at school to enter a profession that pays well . Shoe makers made bad choices and only have themselves to blame.

Finally when you give someone money for the dole you are giving them money for nothing that is paid for with taxes. It would be better for the economy to not have the dole and cut back on taxes.

I salute you! I understand what you are doing now. You genius you! You're creating arguments that are so "righty"- absurd that when "righties" <like> your posts it exposes them in much the same way the people who complimented the emperor on his invisible clothing were not worthy of their profession. You are by far the most smartest "lefty" on this forum! Keep up the good work!

Edit to add - a heads up for future posts, it was the Andrew Bolt posts that gave you away. I know I can slightly exaggerate here and there but as soon as someone takes that guy seriously it is easy to tell they are clowning around.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

All the dole gets returned to the land lords and shop keepers and creates profit and jobs
a stimulus package with far quicker economic benefit than waiting for the money to trickle down from tax cuts to the rich and foreign owned corporations

Just paying someone for doing nothing in return is similar to just printing more money. It just devalues our currency because you don't get the increase in productivity

 

[NSWCROW]

It's all the consumers fault ?

*Shuts eyes and thinks back to a time when " Vendors " and " consumers " weren't even a thing........*


I can't buy that 4th Audi for the summer house now because people need a decent wage...**** THEM i'm goin to Cambodia

^^ Capitalism for dummies

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Lots of people on the dole have paid taxes all their life but for one reason or another find themselves without a job. Were you opposed to the John Howard tax cuts that put the country into structural deficit, that was justified as giving people back what they paid in taxes, how is unemployment benefit different to that?

I agree with you to an extent . If someone has been paying taxes for a long time and needs to be on the dole than that's fine , they just have to leave no stone unturned in trying to find a job .

However its wrong to say that tax cuts and welfare payments are the same , when we get a wage we can do whatever we want with that money while when we pay tax its not the same . That is why conservatives like me fight for as little tax as possible . Also don't forget that 6 out of every 10 households pay no net tax , the tax burden in this country falls mostly on the shoulders of a few .

The bottom line is people on the dole need to leave no stone unturned in looking for a job and given the fact that 31% of meetings scheduled for those on the dole are not being attended its clears that many are not doing that .