Politics Centrelink

[Over The Post]

That blurb mentions nothing of a UBI

Did you mean mentions nothing of a cash card?

 

[GreyCrow]

Did you mean mentions nothing of a cash card?

No UBI

It was posted in discussion on cash cards and talked about cash payments

 

[Over The Post]

Relevant to the subject, though.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No UBI

It was posted in discussion on cash cards and talked about cash payments

Its kind of funny giving it to everyone , then increasing their taxes to pay for it. Just a different way of shuffling the money around, but it could possible work but....


"About 5 per cent said they'd spend more time working, which was surprising.

"About 15 per cent said they'd spend more time socialising with friends and/or family, or volunteering in community activities, and 11 per cent said they'd spend more time exercising like walking/hiking, or doing sports.

reinforces my theory that a lot of who fill in surveys, fill them in with crap.

 

[Gethelred]

Actually Supermarkets like Coles and Woolies have separated their Bottle Shops from their main stores already but there would be plenty of communities where the only local store was an owner operated IGA who sells both.
I'd bet there would be plenty of the small operators willing to ring up a couple of Kg of Steak but hand you a bottle.

That's essentially the problem with the CWC in a nutshell; like every form of prohibitionist thinking a government contrives at any given time, there becomes a subtle black market that keeps funneling desired goods where the unscrupulous want it to go.

There were already cases - I forget where I read them - in which people on the card bought something and bartered with it for alcohol or cigarettes.

 

[Rotayjay]

I'm not sure if it will happen in my lifetime, but I think universal basic income is inevitable.

Centrelink is a Ship of Theseus, a Frankenstein's Monster. I've skimmed those two compendiums of changes to social security, and there have been so many piecemeal changes and attempts to tinker that the system is a mess. There are so many obstacles and overlapping rules that the system pretty much ties itself in a twist and falls over trying to pay people the right amount.

UBI would cost more than the current welfare system, but it would save a lot of time and rigmarole. Fun fact: prior to the pandemic, Family Tax Benefit (AKA Howard middle class welfare) cost almost twice as much as Newstart: https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parlia...tary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook45p/WelfareCost

 

[Over The Post]

UBI would cost more than the current welfare system, but it would save a lot of time and rigmarole.

I don't think it would cost more. Yes in raw dollar terms, obviously, but when you subtract:
- the cost of the various benefits it would replace
- the cost of administration of those benefits
- the cost of confirming eligibility and compliance with those benefits
- the cost of maintaining external support structures
- the taxpayer funding of private for-profit cash cows in the socio-employment complex
... then I don't see how it could fail to be a net gain over what we have.

Just think, with a UBI at an above-poverty level, there'd be no need for:
- jobseeker/jobkeeper/jobupyourarsenamethisweek
- sickness benefits
- pensions

Centrelink, NDIS, whatever could be repurposed to help those who need support over and above mere dollars. Directly target and focus on the most disadvantaged.

Of course, this would put JSPs, Indue, et al immediately out of business. And we can't have that.

 

[Rotayjay]

I don't think it would cost more. Yes in raw dollar terms, obviously, but when you subtract:
- the cost of the various benefits it would replace
- the cost of administration of those benefits
- the cost of confirming eligibility and compliance with those benefits
- the cost of maintaining external support structures
- the taxpayer funding of private for-profit cash cows in the socio-employment complex
... then I don't see how it could fail to be a net gain over what we have.

Just think, with a UBI at an above-poverty level, there'd be no need for:
- jobseeker/jobkeeper/jobupyourarsenamethisweek
- sickness benefits
- pensions

Centrelink, NDIS, whatever could be repurposed to help those who need support over and above mere dollars. Directly target and focus on the most disadvantaged.

Of course, this would put JSPs, Indue, et al immediately out of business. And we can't have that.

I agree. If you could get the electorate to support it, UBI would be a net gain for Australian society and the thousands of people working in Centrelink and Jobactive could do something more socially useful.

But would UBI cause price hikes like the first home owners grants? I'm definitely not a fan of supply-side economics, but would the arrival of government money for everyone increase everyone's purchasing power and quickly raise the level of income required to stay out of poverty? I guess the UBI wouldn't come from the clouds or debt, it would come from the pockets of individual taxpayers and businesses - like a recycling water fountain, i.e. the same money going around in circles. This is bringing me back to Year 10 economics ...

 

[Chief]

The cashless welfare card is to punish welfare recipients.

It’s blatant hypocrisy from people who complain of welfare dependency.

Indigenous families have despaired that their kids are learning that money comes out of the magic government card. They don’t see their parents using cash or managing their own bank accounts so they don’t learn how to do that.

 

[Gough]

It’s blatant hypocrisy from people who complain of welfare dependency.

Indigenous families have despaired that their kids are learning that money comes out of the magic government card. They don’t see their parents using cash or managing their own bank accounts so they don’t learn how to do that.

Racist concept from a racist government. Stop the presses.

 

[Kram]

Ah the ignorant whiteys from the city. If you can't see it from their place, it's not a problem.

 

[Gough]

Ah the ignorant whiteys from the city. If you can't see it from their place, it's not a problem.

If it's not racist why are the overwhelming majority of people on the Indue card First Nation's then? Why don't white folk in the cities get forced to use it, how are the indigenous people so different to them?

 

[Kram]

If it's not racist why are the overwhelming majority of people on the Indue card First Nation's then?

I'm sceptical that a card is the answer but maybe because they are the ones that need help certain areas with stuff like booze destroying families? Not that you would have seen problems like that of course.

I love how you pretend to give a shit, but really, deep down you of course don't.

In saying that whilst it's not been implemented where I live it's actually probably more white people around here that are the worst not looking after their kids. Again I think over stuff needs to be looked at before improving the situation first, restricted spending should be an extreme last resort.

 

[JackOutback]

Ah the ignorant whiteys from the city. If you can't see it from their place, it's not a problem.

I have first-hand experience with Aboriginal people, if not the cashless card. It is disproportionately targeted at Aboriginal people and is a blunt instrument. Whether racist by design or ignorance is the only real issue for discussion.

 

[Chief]

If it's not racist why are the overwhelming majority of people on the Indue card First Nation's then? Why don't white folk in the cities get forced to use it, how are the indigenous people so different to them?

They could either invest in programs and innovation to ease drug and alcohol abuse, or punish people. One of these is easy to do and popular with certain voters.

 

[Kram]

I have first-hand experience with Aboriginal people, if not the cashless card. It is disproportionately targeted at Aboriginal people and is a blunt instrument. Whether racist by design or ignorance is the only real issue for discussion.

Well no shit, if you implement it somewhere like Kalgoorlie of course it's going to be disproportionate.

If there is other rather non indigenous areas with similar levels of problems and it's not implemented you could argue it's discriminatory?

 

[Bombermania]

I don't think it would cost more. Yes in raw dollar terms, obviously, but when you subtract:
- the cost of the various benefits it would replace
- the cost of administration of those benefits
- the cost of confirming eligibility and compliance with those benefits
- the cost of maintaining external support structures
- the taxpayer funding of private for-profit cash cows in the socio-employment complex
... then I don't see how it could fail to be a net gain over what we have.

Just think, with a UBI at an above-poverty level, there'd be no need for:
- jobseeker/jobkeeper/jobupyourarsenamethisweek
- sickness benefits
- pensions

Centrelink, NDIS, whatever could be repurposed to help those who need support over and above mere dollars. Directly target and focus on the most disadvantaged.

Of course, this would put JSPs, Indue, et al immediately out of business. And we can't have that.

And because its universal it would be taxable income so no more whinging about hard working taxpayers paying for people to do nothing.

 

[JackOutback]

Well no sh*t, if you implement it somewhere like Kalgoorlie of course it's going to be disproportionate.

If there is other rather non indigenous areas with similar levels of problems and it's not implemented you could argue it's discriminatory?

But why is it more of an issue in Indigenous communities? This is tackling the symptom, not the cause. It’s punishment of Aboriginal people because they don’t know what else to do (that’s easy and populist).

 

[Kram]

But why is it more of an issue in Indigenous communities? This is tackling the symptom, not the cause. It’s punishment of Aboriginal people because they don’t know what else to do (that’s easy and populist).

True, hence why I think why it should be an absolute last resort when all else fails.

 

[go you pups]

And to all those who voted for the Coalition in 2019 - this is the kind of behaviour you voted for, you utter ****sticks.

Nah, I would think many of their base couldn't care less, or turn a blind eye to it

Labor needs to get their shit together over the next 18 months and provide a convincing alternative though, they simply just do not cut through to the swinging voter atm imo.

I'm sceptical that a card is the answer but maybe because they are the ones that need help certain areas with stuff like booze destroying families? Not that you would have seen problems like that of course.

I love how you pretend to give a sh*t, but really, deep down you of course don't.

M8, just say stop virtue signalling and be done with it

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It’s blatant hypocrisy from people who complain of welfare dependency.

Indigenous families have despaired that their kids are learning that money comes out of the magic government card. They don’t see their parents using cash or managing their own bank accounts so they don’t learn how to do that.

My money goes into the magic computer account.
I move it into different computer accounts belonging to other people.
I use my magic card to buy most things.
On occasion i may use my magic card to take money from a magic ATM.

If they are despairing they need educating, but i think you made it up.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If it's not racist why are the overwhelming majority of people on the Indue card First Nation's then? Why don't white folk in the cities get forced to use it, how are the indigenous people so different to them?

Was it trialled in the most underprivileged areas?
Would it not be racist to treat those areas as if they were not underprivileged because there was a high indigenous population.
Yes indigenous communities should be ignored so that we aren't racist.

 

[Navyblues09]

So is the Victorian government’s answer the way to go? If Aboriginal people are breaking the law in high numbers, they abolish that law so it’s no longer illegal.

So in Victoria they are now being encouraged to drink more as there are no consequences to their actions.

 

[Gethelred]

So is the Victorian government’s answer the way to go? If Aboriginal people are breaking the law in high numbers, they abolish that law so it’s no longer illegal.

So in Victoria they are now being encouraged to drink more as there are no consequences to their actions.

Still waiting for the evidence that Joe Biden will abolish the police.

 

[Rotayjay]

Josh Frydenberg still refusing to even say when the government will decide on the long-term future of Job Seeker Payment. He keeps spinning the line of 'monitoring the labour market' as the end of the supplement draws nearer and saying they are giving people the best chance of moving into work. My emphasis on the word 'chance'.

Just goes to show the extent to which the Coalition, despite trumpeting individual freedom, thinks individuals are disposable. He is basically saying that when unemployment is high and our marginal seats are in danger and Coalition voters are in struggle street, then a person looking for work deserves more money to survive. But when unemployment is at (say) 600,000 rather than 1 million, those 600,000 humans need to be the sacrificial lambs to set an example of what happens to you if you 'choose' not to have a job. It seens to be based on an idea that any unemployed person can walk into a job tomorrow.

You are a cruel and unrealistic campaigner.