CEY

[Vader]

My recollection is you had him firmly in the delist column?

He's a 25yo depth player who isn't now, and never will be, in our best 22. We have a fleet of younger players coming up behind him. How long do you hold onto depth players? Grigg is gone, Lyons is gone, how much longer do you think CEY will be able to hold on?

It's a strong draft, and we have good draft picks. There aren't that many players ahead of him in the exit queue, though the fact that he's on the rookie list may change that equation slightly. You do the math...

 

[70lethal]

4 decent draft picks, Melbournes 1st, Our First, Carltons 2nd, Carltons 3rd.
7 players out of contract this year Otten, McKay, Dear, Hampton, Cheney, Gibson, Signorello that I think go before him.

If they get rid of 5 of these end of this year ( i would hope at least 6 but it wont happen) it leaves 2 at end of 2019 and Douglas will be 33 and probably done.

2 year contract is a no brainer.

That's not taking into consideration if Sloane leaves.

 

[Vader]

4 decent draft picks, Melbournes 1st, Our First, Carltons 2nd, Carltons 3rd.
7 players out of contract this year Otten, McKay, Dear, Hampton, Cheney, Gibson, Signorello that I think go before him.

If they get rid of 5 of these end of this year ( i would hope at least 6 but it wont happen) it leaves 2 at end of 2019 and Douglas will be 33 and probably done.

2 year contract is a no brainer.

That's not taking into consideration if Sloane leaves.

Hampton, Cheney & Gibson would all be near certainties for delisting. I'd bet on Otten & Mackay being offered new contracts, albeit probably only 12-months. Signorello & Dear are on shakey ground, and I'm guessing only one of these will be on our list in 2018.

CEY is currently on the rookie list. We could leave him there for up to 2 more years, and the AFL's recent rule changes mean that there is no reason why the club would want to move him back to the senior list. I think it's unlikely that he'll be upgraded to the senior list again. Much probably depends on how they assess the talent pool after the National Draft.

 

[hippyhippy]

Can he demand more money on rookie? Im sure another club would be willing to spend a bit of money on him.

 

[Vader]

Can he demand more money on rookie? Im sure another club would be willing to spend a bit of money on him.

Yes. The CBA mandates minimum conditions, it doesn't set any maxima. Israel Folau was on the rookie list, and the AFL were paying him a lot more than minimum rookie wages. They threw so much cash at him that he agreed to swap codes, taking up a game he'd never played before.

 

[Golumless]

Not sure thats its a recorded stat, but recall the club saying Greenwood was easily our best handball interceptor at a stoppage. This stops the ball getting out and gives us a 2nd chance at a clearance, which is invaluable. When you look closely, you can see him instinctively doing this inside the pack.

Reckon it would just be a intercept.

 

[Golumless]

So that is it? CEY is only a depth player and that is packed, sealed and delivered?

I remember when Scott Stevens was that “depth” player. It is amazing what experience on the big field can do. For various reasons CEY has been either overlooked (because there was someone better) or he was injured. Right now he has an opportunity to improve and challenge for a spot. You and I don’t know if he will take another major step forward or if he has hit his ceiling. Each game I watch, he is starting to look more comfortable.....which means he is at least in the box seat to give it a crack.

You could well be right, but I think you have gone too early to put CEY in a box that is marked as depth only. He should have a few more weeks to continue to show us what he can do.

Absolutely he's just a depth player with very limited chance of being more. He's had 7 seasons on our list for only 20 games, on top of that he's ridiculously lucky to even be on our list right now seeing most people only get 5 seasons to cement themselves in our line up or are delisted. He's over that point and is still not a permanent fixture in our line up.

He won't take another step forward, because a big part of the reason players take that step forward is those extra preseasons the player is doing which adds the strength and fitness. At 7 preseasons, the amount of improvement that a player can get is purely minimal. What you see now is what he will always be.

 

[Golumless]

That is such a broad brush pile of s..t .

Ok then, live in the fantasy that you magically have to see them at AFL level before you assign value. Especially a player who is as limited as Cam.

He's had 7 seasons dude. 7 seasons. To say he has any future outside of being depth is so wrong it isn't funny because he hasn't done that once in his career (and really, he should have done that 3-4 seasons ago when his career should have been on the line). It's not magically going to happen now, and not much he has done really indicates he will seeing he has been an average inside midfielder in our line up.

Nice contradiction there .

What fantasy world do you live in. Douglas is not, and never has been a pure inside midfielder. He's always been used in an in/out role, which neither Greenwood or CEY has the game to do.

Next your going to say "why isn't Atkins, or Jenkins in danger". It's the same level of wrong in this scenario.

 

[Rotayjay]

Cam is one of the biggest question marks on our list. He's torn it up in several games so far and yet he continues to have some shockers which make him look very much like the depth player I thought he was. Now I'm not so sure about the depth part - kudos to Cam but I want to see him play well against a few more good sides before I'm totally convinced. Agree with those on here saying this - 2018 - is his peak right now.

 

[Shaz2012]

He's a 25yo depth player who isn't now, and never will be, in our best 22. We have a fleet of younger players coming up behind him. How long do you hold onto depth players? Grigg is gone, Lyons is gone, how much longer do you think CEY will be able to hold on?

It's a strong draft, and we have good draft picks. There aren't that many players ahead of him in the exit queue, though the fact that he's on the rookie list may change that equation slightly. You do the math...

The fact that we have CEY, who is still improving with just 20 games in him, allows us to trade Sloane for this draft. Without CEY showing what he has this season I don’t think going down this path is anywhere near as comfortable.

 

[Golumless]

The fact that we have CEY, who is still improving with just 20 games in him, allows us to trade Sloane for this draft. Without CEY showing what he has this season I don’t think going down this path is anywhere near as comfortable.

An average depth inside midfielder with no to minimal potential to improve is not the reason we should be able to trade Sloane. If it is the reason, it's time to fold.

There are reasons to be comfortable to trade Sloane being is it's a strong draft and we can put ourselves into a position that could see us in contention for the next decade+ considering we can go into the draft with 3 firsts and 1 very early second and have them develop whilst we can protect them with a rather strong side. This also allows us to utilise Matt Crouch as the piece we end up building around which considering that he's on track to end up a better inside midfielder then Thommo, isn't a bad idea at all.

 

[Vader]

The fact that we have CEY, who is still improving with just 20 games in him, allows us to trade Sloane for this draft. Without CEY showing what he has this season I don’t think going down this path is anywhere near as comfortable.

You're not seriously suggesting that CEY would in any way make up for losing Sloane? Please close your account immediately.

 

[Shaz2012]

An average depth inside midfielder with no to minimal potential to improve is not the reason we should be able to trade Sloane. If it is the reason, it's time to fold.

There are reasons to be comfortable to trade Sloane is it's a strong draft and we can put ourselves into a position that could see us in contention for the next decade+ considering we can go into the draft with 3 firsts and 1 very early second and have them develop whilst we can protect them with a rather strong side. This also allows us to utilise Matt Crouch as the piece we end up building around which considering that he's on track to end up a better inside midfielder then Thommo, isn't a bad idea at all.

He is not looking average based on 3 performances this year. He has 20 games of AFL experience and has beaten A-grade midfields of Richmond and Sydney on the day. Gold Coasts midfield is not bad either, although not A grade.

Just because you decided that CEY was average and depth doesn’t make you right. It was a fair call, which I had previously agreed with. But this year he has shown that there is every chance we both may have been wrong.

 

[Shaz2012]

You're not seriously suggesting that CEY would in any way make up for losing Sloane? Please close your account immediately.

Lol. He is keeping Sloane out now. If he is next man out then that’s exactly what he is doing. Sloane isn’t being rested until he heals. He has been dropped until he heals. If he is not best 22 now, which he probably isn’t, he will be next year when Sloane leaves. So if this is true then my last comment is exactly right. In current form he makes losing Sloane a much more comfortable thing to take.

 

[Vader]

Lol. He is keeping Sloane out now. If he is next man out then that’s exactly what he is doing. Sloane isn’t being rested until he heals. He has been dropped until he heals. If he is not best 22 now, which he probably isn’t, he will be next year when Sloane leaves. So if this is true then my last comment is exactly right. In current form he makes losing Sloane a much more comfortable thing to take.

You are flat out delusional.

 

[Shaz2012]

You are flat out delusional.

You are flat out biased.

 

[Vader]

You are flat out biased.

No.. I just happen to have a firm grip on reality. I don't live in some bizarro world, where CEY is supposedly keeping Sloane out of the team.

 

[hippyhippy]

Yes. The CBA mandates minimum conditions, it doesn't set any maxima. Israel Folau was on the rookie list, and the AFL were paying him a lot more than minimum rookie wages. They threw so much cash at him that he agreed to swap codes, taking up a game he'd never played before.

So we can leave him there... Pay him his market value... And draft max number of kids? That's pretty handy ..

 

[Shaz2012]

No.. I just happen to have a firm grip on reality. I don't live in some bizarro world, where CEY is supposedly keeping Sloane out of the team.

Sloane has been dropped because he can’t play through injury. Or at least this one. CEY and Greenwood were both outperforming him before he got dropped.

If Sloane had put in the exact same performances that CEY actually put in for the Richmond, Sydney and Gold Coast games we would all be perfectly happy with him. The fact that you have a preconceived bias against him is the only reason you are not crediting him for how good he actually was. I still question whether he can keep that up. But Am hopeful he can and think he has more improvement left in him given he is so inexperienced at AFL level. My only knock on CEY is his pace. He has every other tool that you would want.

 

[Vader]

Sloane has been dropped because he can’t play through injury. Or at least this one. CEY and Greenwood were both outperforming him before he got dropped.

If Sloane had put in the exact same performances that CEY actually put in for the Richmond, Sydney and Gold Coast games we would all be perfectly happy with him. The fact that you have a preconceived bias against him is the only reason you are not crediting him for how good he actually was. I still question whether he can keep that up. But Am hopeful he can and think he has more improvement left in him given he is so inexperienced at AFL level. My only knock on CEY is his pace. He has every other tool that you would want.

Bolded part is the only section of this post which has any connection to reality. Even then, it's mostly inaccurate.

He was put on the injury list because the injury wasn't improving due to the rigours of training & playing, and because his output while injured was severely compromised. The latter part is consistent with your argument, you deliberately overlook the former - which is the more important of the two.

A fit Sloane is only about 300% better than a fit CEY. That's reality.

 

[Shaz2012]

Bolded part is the only section of this post which has any connection to reality.

Sloane had 15 and 16 possession games before being dropped. He was ordinary.

 

[Vader]

Sloane has 15 and 16 possession games before being dropped. He was ordinary.

Yes, he was ordinary because of the injury. A fit Sloane is 300% better than a fit CEY, which is why Sloane will return to the team as soon as he is fully recovered from injury.

 

[Shaz2012]

Yes, he was ordinary because of the injury. A fit Sloane is 300% better than a fit CEY, which is why Sloane will return to the team as soon as he is fully recovered from injury.

I am not arguing that. But players have to be able to play through injury in the course of a season. Sloane could have been played through this. In the words of burton we invested in resting him. He would have been played through this injury too if CEY and Greenwood hasn’t both stood up and offered more than an injured Sloane.

If Sloane leaves, we will take that pick to the draft. The player we get won’t come into the best 22 in 2019. So it will be someone like CEY who will take that spot in the first 22 next season. Unless we go to free agency, that is the reality. So while CEY probably isn’t best 22 this year, he almost certainly will be next season if Sloane leaves.

 

[Vader]

I am not arguing that. But players have to be able to play through injury in the course of a season. Sloane could have been played through this. In the words of burton we invested in resting him. He would have been played through this injury too if CEY and Greenwood hasn’t both stood up and offered more than an injured Sloane.

Sloane is being rested because we had a run of easy games (Gold Coast & Carlton), where he was expendable, and (primarily) because his injury wasn't improving.

His injury needed rest, or we'd be playing with a one-legged Sloane for the rest of the year. That option wasn't viable, so they took the option of resting him completely.

The presence of CEY & Greenwood is neither here nor there, and played no part whatsoever in the decision to rest Sloane.

If Sloane leaves, we will take that pick to the draft. The player we get won’t come into the best 22 in 2019. So it will be someone like CEY who will take that spot in the first 22 next season. Unless we go to free agency, that is the reality. So while CEY probably isn’t best 22 this year, he almost certainly will be next season if Sloane leaves.

CEY is only a 50/50 chance of being on our list next year, regardless of whether or not Sloane leaves. If Sloane leaves, and his direct replacement is CEY, then we won't be contending for the flag in 2019.

If Sloane leaves, and I don't believe he will, then we have several options for replacing him - all of which are better than relying on CEY magically becoming an A-grade midfielder in only his 8th year on the list. Most likely, we would trade for another A-grade midfielder. We would also rely on the natural progression of younger players with A-grade potential, players like Gallucci.

If we're relying on CEY stepping up, then we're on a very slippery slope indeed.

 

[Shaz2012]

Sloane is being rested because we had a run of easy games (Gold Coast & Carlton), where he was expendable, and (primarily) because his injury wasn't improving.

His injury needed rest, or we'd be playing with a one-legged Sloane for the rest of the year. That option wasn't viable, so they took the option of resting him completely.

Keep telling yourself this. He wouldn’t have played against Collingwood if there was any truth to this.