CEY

[Vader]

Keep telling yourself this. He wouldn’t have played against Collingwood if there was any truth to this.

Like I said.. delusional.

This is the last time I engage with you. Time for me to take the following advice: "Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their own level and beat you with experience".

 

[spexau]

While I don't think CEY will be much more than a player around the 18-26 mark on our list, to suggest that a player can't develop after they turn a certain age is ridiculous.

 

[Golumless]

He is not looking average based on 3 performances this year. He has 20 games of AFL experience and has beaten A-grade midfields of Richmond and Sydney on the day. Gold Coasts midfield is not bad either, although not A grade.

Just because you decided that CEY was average and depth doesn’t make you right. It was a fair call, which I had previously agreed with. But this year he has shown that there is every chance we both may have been wrong.

There has been 6 games he has played this season, 6 chances to show he has a future which means you can't just cherry pick the good ones. On top of that he came nowhere close to beating Sydney at all as he got 20 possessions/4 clearances as an inside midfielder (and this is a position that is the closest to being able to fairly judge through statistics). Those numbers are so much closer to failure, with the at best you could state he broke even against a midfield that just failed. He has however killed it against Richmond and GCS, and barely fired a shot against Collingwood, Essendon and Saints on top of that Sydney game.

This is the thing, with CEY the bar is set so low with his performances that when he puts in a performance fit for an average inside midfielder that he should be heralded as a player that magically has a future beyond depth (and Sydney is a key example of this seeing how you heralded it as a "win"). He's not 19 and has 2 preseasons under his belt where you can get away with this grading system. He's 25 and has 7, i.e. he's at his peak. I have some magical beans that you should purchase if you are believing he'll "break out", because the reality is he doesn't at Adelaide once everyone is fit. We are passed the point of having use of a one paced, bog average inside midfielder outside of depth (and I have no issue with us keeping CEY beyond this year, he is fantastic depth).

 

[marvin]

While I don't think CEY will be much more than a player around the 18-26 mark on our list, to suggest that a player can't develop after they turn a certain age is ridiculous.

Absolutely.

In his first 81 games over 5 seasons, Tyson Edwards had:

an average of 10.6 disposals per game
2 games with 20+ touches (21 and 20 being his best)
an average of 1.4 tackles per game
an average of 0.55 goals per game
an average of less than 1 clearance per game (from when they started keeping that stat)

In 2000, the year he turned 24, he bumped up his disposals up to nearly 20 per game, and kept it there or above for the rest of his career.

(Not equating CEY with Edwards!)

 

[1970crow]

You did tell us how stupid the club was for not delisting him, that he had a charity spot and that CEY was sanfl standard and not capable of playing good afl football. Among many other insults. So you were very wrong.

Again.

 

[Crowtel]

He has been dropped until he heals.

If he is not best 22 now, which he probably isn’t, he will be next year when Sloane leaves.

Sloane. Is. Injured.

If Sloane leaves, Poholke will take his place.

 

[Bicks]

Yes, he was ordinary because of the injury. A fit Sloane is 300% better than a fit CEY, which is why Sloane will return to the team as soon as he is fully recovered from injury.

Sloane had some pretty ordinary games last year when fit i.e. Demons and Saints.

 

[Vader]

Sloane had some pretty ordinary games last year when fit i.e. Demons and Saints.

He also had some pretty damn good ones, which was why he was leading the AFLCA voting for so long. CEY hasn't polled a single AFLCA vote in his 6 games this year.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Sloane had 15 and 16 possession games before being dropped. He was ordinary.

He was in 1 leg & should have never played.

If you couldn't tell he was injured, you really have nfi!

A fit Sloane is a leading part of our midfield, whereas CEY is a useful backup.

 

[Paladin]

He also had some pretty damn good ones, which was why he was leading the AFLCA voting for so long. CEY hasn't polled a single AFLCA vote in his 6 games this year.

Seed has polled a heap. The other guy you said was just depth and was behind Mackay.

You are also a very weak individual for having me on ignore

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Some of that is impressive, some of that is expected and one stat is concerning. For the main part I'll be comparing him with Greenwood, seeing both of them are fighting for that last spot in our midfield as neither are difficult to dislodge.

Considering the position in our rotation and seeing he's a pure inside midfielder, 21.5 disposals is just passable (impressive would be >25 disposals). What is concerning is when Crouch went down he only hit an average of 18.7 disposals, which indicates he didn't handle the increase of responsibility well (seeing CEY would have had to shoulder a large part of the load with Crouch down and him being the most logical replacement). However what is really good is 11.50 of those disposals are contested (problem is Greenwood is at 12.67). Disposal efficiency is a garbage stat, due to some of the weird things it considers a successful disposal (+40m kick to a contest springs to mind).

Less clangers then Gibbs and Greenwood. That's not surprising with Gibbs seeing he is on average touching the ball 7 more times a game then CEY and seeing his disposal skill, would have the licence to take more risks (and even then, 2.8 to 3.3 isn't something to write home about). Greenwood however is notable seeing they're both comparable in terms of role, disposals etc. This is a tick to CEY.

The turnover stat is concerning. Outside of Brown, everyone who is higher then CEY should be higher then CEY (either they have the licence to take risks, a victim of serious leather poisoning or both). What's worrying is he is averaging 4 turnovers for 21.5 disposals for someone who should always be taking the safe options (and Greenwood is close to half of that, despite having more contested disposals). That's horrible for his long term prospects.

Tackle numbers is in a good place for the role, seeing 5.3 would be on the higher end for an inside midfielder (majority of tackles occur in congestion). Mind you what's concerning for CEY is Greenwood is doing more in this regard, but still he's doing his job here. Similar to that, he's giving good numbers in intercepts but Greenwood is ahead in this regard.

Contested marks is a weird one, and feels weirdly assigned on a glanced. Again the concern here is Greenwood is out performing him here again, but really that's what 5 contested marks to 4 which is firmly in the *shrugs* category.

CEY is 14th for average meters per gained, which is firmly in the meh category but really this is a bonus as meters gained from this type of player is due to a death by a thousand cuts approach. He is however averaging 100 meters more then Greenwood which is good for his long term prospects. In terms of clearances (a key part of both of their roles), CEY is at 4.8 per game (and 0.8 ahead of Greenwood), which is passable to good for an inside midfielder (29th in average clearances isn't something to write home about seeing most sides would only have 2-4 players that'd hit high clearances).

Score involvements is 4.5 which is good as well, as well as 4 goals so far seeing if he can consistently get on the scoreboard is what will end up giving him that spot. This is definitely ahead of Greenwood and a big tick for CEY

Really, the general gist of CEY prospects of retaining his spot isn't that great currently. He's providing more offensively then Greenwood currently, but Greenwood is providing more defensively. Considering the player who will take this spot is an midfielder has a strong offensive game in Brad Crouch, the spot is most likely going to the most defensively competent player which puts Greenwood ahead before factoring in Greenwood tools wise is much better for balance. For CEY to get this spot, he has to have daylight between him and Greenwood and that currently isn't there.

While I agree with quite a bit of what you discussed, I think the concern about his turnovers is unwarranted. The following is a breakdown of the clubs midfielders/flankers/wingmen disposals per turnover, their meters gained per disposal, and their disposals per score involvement.

Crouch: 7 disposals per turnover and 7.9 meters per disposal and 4.9 touches per score involvement
Greenwood: 6.5 and 8.6 and 4.0
Laird: 5.5 and 12.6 and 6.7
CEY: 5.4 and 12.0 and 4.8
Milera: 5.3 and 15.5 and 5.6
Mackay: 5.2 and 19.7 and 5.2
Atkins: 5.1 and 21.0 and 4.4
Gibbs: 4.6 and 17.0 and 4.2
Sloane: 4.4 and 13.5 and 4.2
Douglas: 4.4 and 14.1 and 3.0
Seedsman: 4.2 and 24.2 and 4.2

So there does seem to be a correlation between attempting to gain more meters and the likelihood of turning it over, but CEY's numbers don't suggest anything particularly concerning. He is the least productive for touches per score involvement of the mids though. Off topic, but how good Douglas has been in that regard. Every three touches he's involved in a score involvement. Not too shabby.

Anyhow, I still maintain that CEY is proving to be better than mere depth, which is great. If he maintains or even improves his form (however little that might be) he is going to be hard to drop. And with a never ending flow of injuries, it seems like he could yet play out a big chunk of the season.

 

[StonesThrow]

Never been a huge fan of CEY but I've just watched both the Sydney and Gold Coast games and he's been pretty handy. Strong body and good tackler. Considering our depleted midfield and his inexperience he's done really well for the club at the right time.

Will probably be an unlucky casualty of getting a few players back. Good to get some games into him though.

 

[Sanders]

No.. I just happen to have a firm grip on reality. I don't live in some bizarro world, where CEY is supposedly keeping Sloane out of the team.

Shall we have a poll?

Does Vader have a firm grip and live in bizarro world

 

[Bearded Clam]

Shall we have a poll?

Does Vader have a firm grip and live in bizarro world

I don’t think he does... but I’m gonna vote yes in the poll just to shit stir...

 

[Sanders]

I don’t think he does... but I’m gonna vote yes in the poll just to shit stir...

It was rhetorical, but ok

 

[70lethal]

Seedsman is older than CEY and has increased his disposal count by 50% in his 7th year.
Blows wind up the argument theres little to no improvement possible in the 7th year of ones career.

To have a 190cm 95kg rookie getting 20+ disposal is priceless. If he is 10th man up in the midfield happy days.

 

[SaltPeter]

Seedsman is older than CEY and has increased his disposal count by 50% in his 7th year.
Blows wind up the argument theres little to no improvement possible in the 7th year of ones career.

To have a 190cm 95kg rookie getting 20+ disposal is priceless. If he is 10th man up in the midfield happy days.

Yes and like Greenwood is strong and can stand up in the tackle, sometimes drawing multiple opposition players.

 

[hey shorty]

Had 3 good games this year, and 3 ordinary ones.

IMO he's not best 22, but a pretty handy 23-30 type who can play an important role

 

[GreyCrow]

There has been 6 games he has played this season, 6 chances to show he has a future which means you can't just cherry pick the good ones. On top of that he came nowhere close to beating Sydney at all as he got 20 possessions/4 clearances as an inside midfielder (and this is a position that is the closest to being able to fairly judge through statistics). Those numbers are so much closer to failure, with the at best you could state he broke even against a midfield that just failed. He has however killed it against Richmond and GCS, and barely fired a shot against Collingwood, Essendon and Saints on top of that Sydney game.

I felt CEY tagged Kennedy the 1st half

 

[Grenville]

To have a 190cm 95kg rookie getting 20+ disposal is priceless. If he is 10th man up in the midfield happy days.

Agreed - not someone you want to rely on in your first choice midfield, but as part of a rotation has value. If we win contested ball we're good enough all over the ground to beat anyone. Having all that mass knocking around softening up opposition mids doesnt hurt either.

 

[Tex200]

2 good games in a row. Tonight was in our best 4-5.

Gradually removing the "decent depth" jacket, and starting to look comfortable in the "best 22" jacket.

Keep the head down and bum up Cam, you just never know

 

[John Who]

A player who's taking his chances after a second season-ending knee injury only 15 months ago. Looking like he belongs with each passing game. Whatever happens to CEY when Sloane and BCrouch are back, kudos to him for his persistence and strength in adversity!

 

[Tyls83]

Full marks to Cam, he’s a better footballer than I’d ever given him credit for and he’s been thru the wringer, kudos for keeping him on the list.

 

[cmndstab]

I actually liked his game tonight better than last week, which was already a very good game.

Good signs for CEY Going to be interesting to see how things go once Sloane and B. Crouch are both ready to return!

 

[Big Crow]

I actually liked his game tonight better than last week, which was already a very good game.

Good signs for CEY Going to be interesting to see how things go once Sloane and B. Crouch are both ready to return!

...and he’s just come off knee surgery. Performing extremely well all things considered.