Changes for the 3rd Test

[CAS79]

Before we start chopping and changing again the next person to be picked should sit up and demand it from the game in Sussex.

Wade wants to take Huges spo, he needs to ton up. Bird/Faulkner want to move ahead of Starc in the pecking order they need 5 for and not the tail. Lyon the same.

It's all well to say these guys are underperfoming but we cant just keep shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

Dangle the carrot but make sure the sharp one catches it.

 

[passmark]

Before we start chopping and changing again the next person to be picked should sit up and demand it from the game in Sussex.

Wade wants to take Huges spo, he needs to ton up. Bird/Faulkner want to move ahead of Starc in the pecking order they need 5 for and not the tail. Lyon the same.

It's all well to say these guys are underperfoming but we cant just keep shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

Dangle the carrot but make sure the sharp one catches it.

That was the message from The BOOF!! today.

We have to do well soon, it would be a national disgrace to lose a National Coach called BOOF!!!!!!!!!

 

[HBF]

Send him off to the Warriors to get used to the WACA.

Ambush them in Perth.

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

 

[Outshined]

It's a little disingenuous to be quoting Smith's average when he hasn't hit the 10 test mark yet.

Also, Hughes has hit almost a thousand more runs, at a higher average, from fewer innings than Klinger, with the bulk of his career spent at NSW rather than the road that is Adelaide during the Shield season. He was also prolific last season. I'm wary of people simply throwing out names attached to an average and saying "he'll be better". Klinger's technique is far from rock solid, and in a tour which should arguable be as much about development now as anything else, I fail to see what we achieve from bringing in a 33 year old.

I'm as loathe to push a youth policy as anyone, especially in test cricket, but I think the point has been reached in the current setup where we will benefit more long term by giving the current group of young batsmen an extended shot at it against some quality bowling. It could be argued that Hughes has had his turn already, but at 24, he's nowhere near reaching his peak as a batsman. You don't stamp a 24 year old cricketer's papers.

 

[Mateyman]

36 and 92 in his last two bats for Gloucestershire last week. A top order batsmen putting in scores like that for Australia would go someway to providing our bowlers with a competitive score to bowl at.

Yeah, unfortunately our batsmen don't get to bat vs div 2 county bowling attacks

 

[CAS79]

Was horrible last summer and I think the summer before.

Your right about last summer, not the one before it though.

Last shield season was an average of 19 before that 46 before that 23 before that 63.

He runs very hot and cold but you cant reward a shield season of averaging 19

 

[DrEvil]

Wouldn't mind betting CA will hold him back for the Australian Summer.
Get his body cherry ripe for a long BBL series ahead.

efa

 

[bluespooner]

Yeah, unfortunately our batsmen don't get to bat vs div 2 county bowling attacks

Yet, presently they are putting on display techniques that wouldn't survive club cricket lower grades.

Klinger has been around for longer playing first grade cricket, has a proven technique, and is needed given the sudden departure of all the rest of the experience from Australia's batting line-up.

His selection, would also have provided a platform for younger talented players coming in after him - I would not put Smith or Hughes in that category.

 

[Mateyman]

Yet, presently they are putting on display techniques that wouldn't survive club cricket lower grades.

Klinger has been around for longer playing first grade cricket, has a proven technique, and is needed to given the sudden departure of all the rest of the experience from Australia's batting line-up.

His selection, would also have providede a platform for younger talented players coming in after him - I would not put Smith or Hughes in that category.

Smith and Hughes have made far more recent FC runs than Klinger... so pretty sure their techniques could "survive club cricket lower grades"

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Voges has had a similar problem to Klinger. His last 2 years were ok, but prior he was going shit season, good season, shit season, good season... he was a player CA expected to come into reckoning after 2006/7, but never happened.

 

[bluespooner]

Smith and Hughes have made far more recent FC runs than Klinger... so pretty sure their techniques could "survive club cricket lower grades"

Your just making that up.

As I recall Smith was first selected for Australia as a bowler. Now, I've heard there thinking of selecting Wade for a specialist batting spot, they just don't learn. If your technique is not right by the the time you are progressing from the U19s, your really up against it in terms of being able to become a test class batsman.

It is no coincidence that it is the players with the superior batting techniques in the Australian line-up that look most likely of being able to make a score: Clarke, Agar, Khawaja and Pattison.

 

[Outshined]

Your just making that up.

As I recall Smith was first selected for Australia as a bowler. Now, I've heard there thinking of selecting Wade for a specialist batting spot, they just don't learn. If your technique is not right by the the time you are progressing from the U19s, your really up against it in terms of being able to become a test class batsman.

It is no coincidence that it is the players with the superior batting techniques in the Australian line-up that look most likely of being able to make a score: Clarke, Agar, Khawaja and Pattison.

Smith was selected as a batsman for the current tour.

Hughes made 673 runs @ 56.08 last season (12 innings), Smith 296 @ 37.00 (8 innings).

Klinger made 330 runs @ 19.41 (18 innings)

As far as recent form goes, Mateyman is fairly spot on.

 

[Mateyman]

Your just making that up.

As I recall Smith was first selected for Australia as a bowler. Now, I've heard there thinking of selecting Wade for a specialist batting spot, they just don't learn. If your technique is not right by the the time you are progressing from the U19s, your really up against it in terms of being able to become a test class batsman.

It is no coincidence that it is the players with the superior batting techniques in the Australian line-up that look most likely of being able to make a score: Clarke, Agar, Khawaja and Pattison.

If only Khawaja looked likely to make a score

 

[Mateyman]

Your just making that up.

As I recall Smith was first selected for Australia as a bowler. Now, I've heard there thinking of selecting Wade for a specialist batting spot, they just don't learn. If your technique is not right by the the time you are progressing from the U19s, your really up against it in terms of being able to become a test class batsman.

It is no coincidence that it is the players with the superior batting techniques in the Australian line-up that look most likely of being able to make a score: Clarke, Agar, Khawaja and Pattison.

He was first selected as an all-rounder... not that this has any relevance to anything.
Also, as Outshined pointed out above, Klinger has been in terrible form. Add on top of that that he averages 37 at FC level. 37. Hughes averages 44, Smith 40, and they are in better form and are younger.

 

[footymissionary]

COWAN - give him one more chance. has to bat for time
ROGER - bat for time
WARNER - cant see him opening
KHAWAJA - project player
CLARKE - scores most run at this position
WADE -WK/bats
SMITH - all rounder
WATSON- KEPT HIS SPOT DUE TO HIS BOWLING. HOPEFULLY WE USE UP THE DRS WHEN THE TIME HE BATS
AGAR - PROJECT PLAYER
SIDDLE - WAR HORSE
HARRIS - STRIKE BOWLER

 

[Carbine Chaos]

COWAN - give him one more chance. has to bat for time
ROGER - bat for time
WARNER - cant see him opening
KHAWAJA - project player
CLARKE - scores most run at this position
WADE -WK/bats
SMITH - all rounder
WATSON- KEPT HIS SPOT DUE TO HIS BOWLING. HOPEFULLY WE USE UP THE DRS WHEN THE TIME HE BATS
AGAR - PROJECT PLAYER
SIDDLE - WAR HORSE
HARRIS - STRIKE BOWLER

1. Watson can't be third seamer given Harris is prone to injury, and so is he.
2. Warner is an opener, but you can't see him opening?
3. Roger is an alien, not an opener

 

[Mateyman]

I'm interested in the logic of those who call Clarke selfish for batting at five. If he is selfish, he is trying to make more runs... which helps the team???
Meanwhile, out of the last 5 tests alone, the 2 tests he has batted at 4, he hasn't scored more than about 30, while he scored at least a 50 in all the games he batted at 5. Still many people Clarke-haters would prefer a solid 20 out of him at 4 rather than a 50+ average

 

[Belnakor]

Bring back Punter

 

[scoremachine]

A big problem for us over the years I feel has been the crucial number 3 & 4 batting spots. To be a good & consistent team you need runs from these positions & I don't know the stats but I would assume that in these spots we have been pretty pathetic.

Look at South Africa with Amla & Kallis. England with Trott & KP. India with Pujara & Kohli/Tendulkar?.
We are not even in the same ball park with our batsman. You take those players out of the above teams & they would be on a similar level to us. I don't think our opening partnerships have been too bad, but how quickly have we gone from say 0/50 to 3/70.

If Australia can find a number 3 & 4 batsman for the next ten years then we'll be back on top of the test rankings. It's just finding out who can bat there that is proving difficult.

 

[CAS79]

3. Roger is an alien, not an opener

England have been playing Aliens for years..
I'm willing to give him a chance

 

[Miqar_Baqfhied]

Not sure if it has been metioned, but Fawaz Ahmed got 8 wickets for Australia A against the Rhodesians in the last match...

Agar to go unfortunetly, Lyon to come in.

Smith to go, Warner to come in.

Bird to replace Pattinson.

Kawajha is a certainty to play.

Hughes needs to go permanetly now. How many chances does he get. His technique cant stand up against ordinary attacks, yet alone the best attack in the world in swinging conditions.

My side would be:

Watson
Rogers
Clarke (yeah right he will ever get some balls and bat in the most important spot)
Kawajha
Warner
Haddin
Wade
Siddle
Bird
Harris
Lyon

 

[bungwahl]

Not sure if it has been metioned, but Fawaz Ahmed got 8 wickets for Australia A against the Rhodesians in the last match...

Agar to go unfortunetly, Lyon to come in.

Smith to go, Warner to come in.

Bird to replace Pattinson.

Kawajha is a certainty to play.

Hughes needs to go permanetly now. How many chances does he get. His technique cant stand up against ordinary attacks, yet alone the best attack in the world in swinging conditions.

My side would be:

Watson
Rogers
Clarke (yeah right he will ever get some balls and bat in the most important spot)
Kawajha
Warner
Haddin
Wade
Siddle
Bird
Harris
Lyon

Hughes was rushed back last summer when he should have been given more time to cement some confidence. What he desperately needs is stability. Since the start of the Indian tour Hughes has changed batting position 7 times. That’s ridiculous!! There’s a whisper of moving Clarke from 5 and the sirens go off, meanwhile Hughes bounces around all over the place.


Either put Hughes as opener, #6, or wherever, and LEAVE him there for 10 games.

 

[bluespooner]

Hughes was rushed back last summer when he should have been given more time to cement some confidence. What he desperately needs is stability. Since the start of the Indian tour Hughes has changed batting position 7 times. That’s ridiculous!! There’s a whisper of moving Clarke from 5 and the sirens go off, meanwhile Hughes bounces around all over the place.


Either put Hughes as opener, #6, or wherever, and LEAVE him there for 10 games.

If your a specialist batsman you need to be prepared to bat anywhere between 1 through to 7. When you select a side you should be selecting your best 6 batsmen (presuming you are going with 6 specialist bats) getting the order worked out is secondary.

Generally, your opening batsmen may have less flair and be more prepared to let the ball go because they are batting at a time which is considered to be most threatening. Your number 3 is normally where your best batsman plays, as generally he may need to play defensively or counter-attack depending on the circumstances. None of this, however, is a firm rule i.e. Watson is a very loose opening bat who happens to be attacking; Cowan bats at number 3 and is basically just a pusher and a deflector.

This idea though though that positions in the batting order correlate to a speciality is ridiculous. Hughes has been given substantial opportunity and is proving to be woeful wherever he bats in the order and that gets back to his technique. Hughes brings the bowler into the contest consistently because he presents his bat to cover, rather than to the V behind the bowler, consequently the ball has to do less to have him edging or missing the ball.

Regardless, presently, if you are batting at 4 or 5 means there is very little difference between this spot in the batting order and opening, as the side is regularly 3 for 30 or 4 for 50.

 

[bungwahl]

If your a specialist batsman you need to be prepared to bat anywhere between 1 through to 7. When you select a side you should be selecting your best 6 batsmen (presuming you are going with 6 specialist bats) getting the order worked out is secondary.

Generally, your opening batsmen may have less flair and be more prepared to let the ball go because they are batting at a time which is considered to be most threatening. Your number 3 is normally where your best batsman plays, as generally he may need to play defensively or counter-attack depending on the circumstances. None of this, however, is a firm rule i.e. Watson is a very loose opening bat who happens to be attacking; Cowan bats at number 3 and is basically just a pusher and a deflector.

This idea though though that positions in the batting order correlate to a speciality is ridiculous. Hughes has been given substantial opportunity and is proving to be woeful wherever he bats in the order and that gets back to his technique. Hughes brings the bowler into the contest consistently because he presents his bat to cover, rather than to the V behind the bowler, consequently the ball has to do less to have him edging or missing the ball.

Regardless, presently, if you are batting at 4 or 5 means there is very little difference between this spot in the batting order and opening, as the side is regularly 3 for 30 or 4 for 50.

I don't think there is a successful side in world cricket that regularly switches batsmen between 1-7? I understand the mentality, but most batsmen want to know their role. Hughes doesn't know his role as a result of being screwed around constantly.

I thought we'd all moved past the debate about technique? Technique is advantageous for a batsman with limited natural ability. Trying to convert a naturally talented batsman in to a technically correct batsman is like asking Shaun Tait to bowl line and length - we tried it, it was terrible.

 

[eddiesmith]

I don't think there is a successful side in world cricket that regularly switches batsmen between 1-7? I understand the mentality, but most batsmen want to know their role. Hughes doesn't know his role as a result of being screwed around constantly.

I thought we'd all moved past the debate about technique? Technique is advantageous for a batsman with limited natural ability. Trying to convert a naturally talented batsman in to a technically correct batsman is like asking Shaun Tait to bowl line and length - we tried it, it was terrible.

Joe Root has batted in every spot in the middle order 4-6 then was pushed up to open in the Ashes, didn't stop him scoring a big hundred in just his 2nd game opening and has scored a hundred or a 50 in every spot he has batted and that is in just 8 games of Test cricket

Some players can adapt, others its just an excuse for failure and Hughes has had plenty like how the selectors destroyed him because they dropped him when he wasn't performing last time they visited England...