Opinion Changes Round 23 Vs Hawks

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Candiru

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Why don’t we wait to see the result at the end of the season before making stupid comments that you can’t substantiate
We need to wait until the end of the season to know they got 4 points from the win? I don't think so.

If you want to talk about "stupid comments"...
 

Candiru

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You seem to be obsessed with the 4 points and not the end result at seasons end
Now that is just plain dumb
The 4 points matters because you get a home final if you finish top 2. Do you not know this?

If we go B2B, it will be because of games we win henceforth, not because of the game we lost last week. However, that loss could make B2B harder if it contributes to us missing top 2.

Do you really need this explained? Is any of this even debatable?

Are you so salty that you'll argue hopeless positions just for the appearance of pushing back? I think you've already shown that you are.
 

LittleGreekGod

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The 4 points matters because you get a home final if you finish top 2. Do you not know this?

If we go B2B, it will be because of games we win henceforth, not because of the game we lost last week. However, that loss could make B2B harder if we don't finish top 2.

Do you really need this explained? Is any of this even debatable?
A season is a season and one game is just one game
It might sound funny but teams are judged by what they do over a season and not one game in that season
Get it?
 

Candiru

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A season is a season and one game is just one game
It might sound funny but teams are judged by what they do over a season and not one game in that season
Get it?
A season is a season. Oh wow, blow my mind.

You should get your own show where you impart folksy, homespun platitudes dressed up as insight.

Of course the end result is what ultimately matters. But individual games can still have major implications for how it all shakes out when it comes to ladder positions before finals. Again, how is that even debatable?

And Richmond got the 4 points last time. Those 4 points were what was at stake and Richmond got them. You want to pretend WC were the "real winners"?
 

LittleGreekGod

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A season is a season. Oh wow, blow my mind.

You should get your own show where you impart folksy, homespun platitudes dressed up as insight.

Of course the end result is what ultimately matters. But individual games can still have major implications for how it all shakes out when it comes to ladder positions before finals. Again, how is that even debatable?

And Richmond got the 4 points last time. Those 4 points were what was at stake and Richmond got them. You want to pretend WC were the "real winners"?
Let me put it as simply as I can.
It’s the final game of the year that counts
If we win the premiership it’s the sum total of what we did and won and lost for the entire season.
Our season is not defined for example the game we lost to Collingwood by a point
Winning a grand final is made up entirely of what we learned and what we did over the whole season
See. Simple is it not
 

Candiru

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Let me put it as simply as I can.
It’s the final game of the year that counts
If we win the premiership it’s the sum total of what we did and won and lost for the entire season.
Our season is not defined for example the game we lost to Collingwood by a point
Winning a grand final is made up entirely of what we learned and what we did over the whole season
See. Simple is it not
You can put it as simply as you like. Unfortunately that doesn't mean it makes any sense.

If we win the GF, the primary cause will be our performance during the GF. It won't be the events of R22.

Nonetheless, your latest tangent adds not an ounce of credibility to your ridiculous claim that WC were the real winners against Richmond despite losing and probably missing top 2.

Try again, salty?
 

HoneyBadger35

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You can put it as simply as you like. Unfortunately that doesn't mean it makes any sense.

If we win the GF, the primary cause will be our performance during the GF. It won't be the events of R22.

Nonetheless, your latest tangent adds not an ounce of credibility to your ridiculous claim that WC were the real winners against Richmond despite losing and probably missing top 2.

Try again, salty?
So if we win the Grand Final it’s solely down to how we did on the day, but if we lose a final it’s because of a Round 22 result that cost us home finals?
 

Candiru

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So if we win the Grand Final it’s solely down to how we did on the day, but if we lose a final it’s because of a Round 22 result that cost us home finals?
Who said that?

Do you know the meaning of the phrase "primary cause"?

Come back once you have a more sophisticated strawman.

Or maybe we can just cut straight to the part where you segue into exasperation after failing to make anything stick and start blethering about "semantics".
 

HoneyBadger35

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Who said that?

Do you know the meaning of the phrase "primary cause"?

Come back once you have a more sophisticated strawman.
Lol. Getting in before you edit the comment to include a great many faux intelligent insults.

Sides can gain experience from games that they don’t win. You can learn things from games you don’t win. Richmond got the four points, nobody is denying that, but denying a game like R22 vs Richmond can set your team up for future success just because we didn’t get the points is short sighted.

Edit: Right on time.

Or maybe we can just cut straight to the part where you segue into exasperation after failing to make anything stick and start blethering about "semantics".
 

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Candiru

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Lol. Getting in before you edit the comment to include a great many faux intelligent insults.

Sides can gain experience from games that they don’t win. You can learn things from games you don’t win. Richmond got the four points, nobody is denying that, but denying a game like R22 vs Richmond can set your team up for future success just because we didn’t get the points is short sighted.
None of that makes WC the real winners from the R22 defeat. Does it?
 

Candiru

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You’d have to wait and see. The R22 game is meaningless if it gave the Eagles a blueprint to beating the Tigers which we then put into effect come finals.

Have you heard the phrase about losing a battle but winning the war?
What a load of rubbish.

Richmond got a crucial 4 points. No wait and see required.

We lost the battle. Hopefully we win the next one. Not sure why you have to tie yourself in knots to spin a loss as a win.
 

HoneyBadger35

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What a load of rubbish.

Richmond got a crucial 4 points. No wait and see required.
Last season we came into Round 23 needing to win in Brisbane AND boost our percentage in order to finish top two. We lost to Melbourne in Round 22 and looked to have blown top two.

Ask the Dees how those crucial four points went for them.
 

Candiru

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Last season we came into Round 23 needing to win in Brisbane AND boost our percentage in order to finish top two. We lost to Melbourne in Round 22 and looked to have blown top two.

Ask the Dees how those crucial four points went for them.
What's your point?

Also, we finished a game clear in second so I'm not sure how that's relevant.
 
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HoneyBadger35

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What's your point?
That a Round 22 result is not the be all and end all of the season. That you can take more out of matchups than the very basic WE WON or WE LOST approach.

Do me a favour if you’re going to reply to this and continue on - can you just think long and hard about what you want to say and write it all out at once. All this writing out a post, waiting five minutes, editing the post to include another tangent, it’s really a pain to respond to.
 

Candiru

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That a Round 22 result is not the be all and end all of the season. That you can take more out of matchups than the very basic WE WON or WE LOST approach.

Do me a favour if you’re going to reply to this and continue on - can you just think long and hard about what you want to say and write it all out at once. All this writing out a post, waiting five minutes, editing the post to include another tangent, it’s really a pain to respond to.
I'm not saying the loss to Richmond is the be all and end all of the season. I've not once said anything resembling that. So what are you talking about?

I'm saying that trying to spin that loss as "a win in disguise" is nonsense. Richmond got the 4 points and we move on, hoping to beat them next time. That's fine. But don't tell me we got more out of it despite losing. It's quite straightforward. There are no tangents.

Do me a favour: try to make an argument that isn't simply a crudely formed strawman.
 

HoneyBadger35

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I'm not saying the loss to Richmond is the be all and end all of the season. I've not once said anything resembling that. So what are you talking about?

I'm saying that trying to spin that loss as "a win in disguise" is nonsense. Richmond got the 4 points and we move on, hoping to beat them next time. That's fine. But don't tell me we got more out of it despite losing. It's quite straightforward. There are no tangents.

Do me a favour: try to make an argument that isn't simply a crudely formed strawman.
We lost that chapter of the story, the rest hasn’t been written yet.

If that game gave us the blueprint to beating Richmond, and then we meet Richmond, and then we beat Richmond with that gameplan, we got more out of the game than they did.

They got the four points. We got the method of beating them. We then beat them. They win the battle, we win the war.

You don’t have to agree with the concept but denying its existence entirely is just stubborn for the sake of it.
 

Candiru

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We lost that chapter of the story, the rest hasn’t been written yet.

If that game gave us the blueprint to beating Richmond, and then we meet Richmond, and then we beat Richmond with that gameplan, we got more out of the game than they did.

They got the four points. We got the method of beating them. We then beat them. They win the battle, we win the war.

You don’t have to agree with the concept but denying its existence entirely is just stubborn for the sake of it.
So WC are the "real winners" in an imagined future that hasn't happened yet. Ok great. Let's take that to the bank. In the meantime, Richmond have the 4 points and we look like missing top 2.

Can you just deal in reality for a change instead of gilding the lily with whatever BS suits you at the time?
 

Mr Casson

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Huh, I'm actually with Gunnar on this one (although I think I may have been concussed earlier).

We definitely lost to Richmond. All the stuff about learning how to beat Richmond now, Simmo playing his cards close to his chest for later etc is wishful thinking. Might turn out to be true but it's unprovable right now.

We made a pretty good account of ourselves though and bar some dumb mistakes might have even won. There's plenty to be optimistic about even if we have to settle for top 4 instead of top 2 (nobody mention 5th). Every team has games they wish they could mulligan. For every Collingwood or Richmond game we held onto we might have dropped against Adelaide, Melbourne or the Hawks. No point dwelling now.

But to say we'll get more out of the loss than Richmond is a loser's lullaby. Whatever we'll learn from that game we could've just as easily learned by winning.
 

Candiru

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Huh, I'm actually with Gunnar on this one (although I think I may have been concussed earlier).

We definitely lost to Richmond. All the stuff about learning how to beat Richmond now, Simmo playing his cards close to his chest for later etc is wishful thinking. Might turn out to be true but it's unprovable right now.

We made a pretty good account of ourselves though and bar some dumb mistakes might have even won. There's plenty to be optimistic about even if we have to settle for top 4 instead of top 2 (nobody mention 5th). Every team has games they wish they could mulligan. For every Collingwood or Richmond game we held onto we might have dropped against Adelaide, Melbourne or the Hawks. No point dwelling now.

But to say we'll get more out of the loss than Richmond is a loser's lullaby. Whatever we'll learn from that game we could've just as easily learned by winning.
Nah but imagine.

Also, a season is a season. Or something.
 

HoneyBadger35

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So WC are the "real winners" in an imagined future that hasn't happened yet. Ok great. Let's take that to the bank. In the meantime, Richmond have the 4 points and we look like missing top 2.

Can you just deal in reality for a change instead of gilding the lily with whatever BS suits you at the time?
I never said we’re the real winners. All I’ve said is full story of the season isn’t written just because we lost four points, we have to wait to see how things play out.

The full impact of the Richmond game hasn’t been felt yet, how does that statement suit you?

The loss could prove disastrous if we lose our (likely) away final. If we play and beat Richmond it’d be fair to say that playing Richmond so recently was helpful. We might bow out in straight sets and people will rightly point to the Richmond result as the beginning of the end. We might win all our finals by 100 points and go back to back, and the Richmond result would be part of the reason we finished where we did to facilitate that.

Everyone’s entitled to be disappointed about losing four points, but as the story of the season isn’t written yet nobody knows how we’ll respond to losing those four points. I think we all agree how we respond now, given where we are on the calendar, has the potential to be much more impactful than any set of four points.
 

Candiru

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I never said we’re the real winners. All I’ve said is full story of the season isn’t written just because we lost four points, we have to wait to see how things play out.

The full impact of the Richmond game hasn’t been felt yet, how does that statement suit you?

The loss could prove disastrous if we lose our (likely) away final. If we play and beat Richmond it’d be fair to say that playing Richmond so recently was helpful. We might bow out in straight sets and people will rightly point to the Richmond result as the beginning of the end. We might win all our finals by 100 points and go back to back, and the Richmond result would be part of the reason we finished where we did to facilitate that.

Everyone’s entitled to be disappointed about losing four points, but as the story of the season isn’t written yet nobody knows how we’ll respond to losing those four points. I think we all agree how we respond now, given where we are on the calendar, has the potential to be much more impactful than any set of four points.
Stop hiding behind platitudes. "The story isn't written"? What are you smoking? It's not a "story".

The other poster said WC got more out of the match than Richmond. I say that's nonsense. Richmond got the 4 points and that's plenty. Do you disagree?

To be clear, that makes no statement one way or the other about how the season ultimately finishes. We could go B2B, but that won't make a loss a win.
 
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